Ethics of Guerilla growing on someone else's land

specialkayme said:

I'm less concerned with finding a spot than with the logistics behind providing enough water for the plants, at least at this point in time. What is the longest I would be able to go without visiting them?

My old hippie bro used to say how back in the 70's he threw a bunch of seeds in the ground on state land in Feb. He wouldn't come back till Oct. If they can last that long, they should survive a two or three week break between visits, without a watering system set up, right?

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Well really for an outdoor full season grow, the plants need to be watered about every 2nd or 3rd day under normal conditions, during hot weather (heat waves) every day.

If planting next to a water source, dam or river, it has a higher chance of being spotted by humans or animals. Remember theives will be looking for along water ways.

I doubt very much that a no less than 100 seeds thrown out will eventuate to anything with out constant care and attention.

See theres tonnes more to outdoor growing and logistics than meets the eye. If you going to do it, I first suggest u find a secure location and work back from there

LordOfWar said:

Well really for an outdoor full season grow, the plants need to be watered about every 2nd or 3rd day under normal conditions, during hot weather (heat waves) every day.

If planting next to a water source, dam or river, it has a higher chance of being spotted by humans or animals. Remember theives will be looking for along water ways.

I doubt very much that a no less than 100 seeds thrown out will eventuate to anything with out constant care and attention.

See theres tonnes more to outdoor growing and logistics than meets the eye. If you going to do it, I first suggest u find a secure location and work back from there

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Haha, which of course brings me back to my initial problem. The only land near by is privately owned. The only state owned land near by is used for highways and city parks. If I were to grow on govn't land then it would be about 45 min to an hour away.

I'm afraid I'm starting to get discouraged. Growing on private land brings with it more violations to the conscious than I'm willing to commit. But growing on state land is too far away for me to be able to do a successful grow. Kinda like a catch 22.

So my options appear to be either violating my conscious or pushing a grow that will likely fail. Do I seem to have a grasp on things?

Yes, my take on it is probably influenced by my situation, which may be a lot better than yours. I was already regularly visiting my site long before I thought of growing there. I also haven't done much yet, just prepped the ground.

My main concern is with deer, but I'm planning on regularly applying the soap, hair and cougar piss.

And I've even thought about the 'in a tree' idea...Search for 'grow in a tree' if you haven't heard about it. I doubt I'll do it...Unless I find some kind of ideal opportunity.

Print out your satellite maps of all these areas and go scout them out on foot. If they are public parks, go walk the trail in the middle of the afternoon on an unpopular day, like a Tuesday or something. Just take note of what you see, you'll be surprised what the ground really looks like. Then as sundown nears and it becomes less likely other people will be coming to the park (winter time is best), double back and take a closer look at interesting spots. Of course you want a little clearing so the sun can get through and your plants will be reasonably hidden. These can be hard to find. I've found that cedar (juniper) patches offer excellent stealth, but at the same time they block out the sun. What you want is to penetrate a cedar patch and find a not so cedary spot in the middle, like a donut of cedars. Then you have the problem that this little clearing often looks well trampled by animals, like the deer just love these secret little coves. This is where your friend the dead tree can come in handy, to make a sort of protective cage, so at least they won't step on your plant.

(by the way, I'm just waiting for someone on here to tell me that cedar trees ruin the soil or something, though I am actually digging a hole for my own)

The trick is to pay attention to spots that look impenetrable, especially in cedar patches. If you manage to scramble through (back first, cover your eyes!) you just may find a perfect spot.

I'm planning to transplant protective rose bushes (natures 'fuck off') around mine as well.

That's what I know. Like I said, I haven't actually had to tend plants yet, so I could be in for a hard lesson...I don't believe the 'every 3-5 days thing.' I'm doing Durban Poison, a heat tolerant strain. I will visit once a week and give a good watering. I will also watch my rainfall amounts carefully and vary accordingly.

Wear a damn face mask and cover your trails.. dont alter the landscape much if any... cops do find large fields of marijuana and they put "trip wire cameras" up all over so they can take your picture.. this is why you should wear a face mask at all times... dont come back to the same location and check your plants VERY OFTEN.. assume that they are just fine... plant lots of them cause the wild life does like eatin them plants just as much as we like smokin them

Before you give up all-together, maybe you should just give yourself a break. Why would you be so haunted by growing on this guy's land? If you leave no trash, tend your plants well, hide them well one per spot, don't get greedy and plant too many, watch the place carefully to gauge foot traffic, then what's so terrible?

Here is why I grow my own: http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=44598

It's all relative. I feel I'm willing to do a tiny bit of wrong to avoid contributing to a giant wrong. The tiny bit of wrong I do is deciding I will still smoke weed, even if there is no perfect solution.

Growing four or five plants on that guy's land is such a tiny wrong, as long as you invest the effort to scout and plan it out perfectly. That means really getting to know what goes on over there (regularly check for tracks, car and person). Plant in places that look so natural they could pass for wild weed. Always have a reason to be over there, bird watching or something, that you commit to 100% in case you're caught. The better you plan it, the more study it, the more you protect both you and the land owner.

If he's some nut that would set a booby trap for you, you've got to do good enough research to know that before you plant anything. Find places that cars and people must pass to access it. Do a little traffic study for a month or two. Assume nothing. It may just seem unused. Find the proof.

What about hunting? Turkey season is coming up. Maybe you could get to know the owner by asking to hunt there (might take some research). Who knows where that could lead.

Yes, it all comes down to how much you're willing to put into it. If you do the work, then I think it's just fine. Personally, I see the whole thing as a hobby to be enjoyed.

Otoole said:

Before you give up all-together, maybe you should just give yourself a break. Why would you be so haunted by growing on this guy's land? If you leave no trash, tend your plants well, hide them well one per spot, don't get greedy and plant too many, watch the place carefully to gauge foot traffic, then what's so terrible?

Here is why I grow my own: http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=44598

It's all relative. I feel I'm willing to do a tiny bit of wrong to avoid contributing to a giant wrong. The tiny bit of wrong I do is deciding I will still smoke weed, even if there is no perfect solution.

Growing four or five plants on that guy's land is such a tiny wrong, as long as you invest the effort to scout and plan it out perfectly. That means really getting to know what goes on over there (regularly check for tracks, car and person). Plant in places that look so natural they could pass for wild weed. Always have a reason to be over there, bird watching or something, that you commit to 100% in case you're caught. The better you plan it, the more study it, the more you protect both you and the land owner.

If he's some nut that would set a booby trap for you, you've got to do good enough research to know that before you plant anything. Find places that cars and people must pass to access it. Do a little traffic study for a month or two. Assume nothing. It may just seem unused. Find the proof.

What about hunting? Turkey season is coming up. Maybe you could get to know the owner by asking to hunt there (might take some research). Who knows where that could lead.

Yes, it all comes down to how much you're willing to put into it. If you do the work, then I think it's just fine. Personally, I see the whole thing as a hobby to be enjoyed.

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You raise good points Otoole, and I've contemplated all of them. But I have to look at it like this: Am i concerned about my conscious, about what's rite and what's wrong, about how my actions would affect other individuals .... or am I trying to justify something that I have already decided to do anyways.

Yes, it's trespassing, and it's also willful destruction of property (or could be viewed as such) all for my personal gain. If the true owner was benefiting in the process, and was unable to get any punishment from my actions, the decision would be easier to make. But he's not benefiting, and he could get in trouble. So I am therefore using him, and using his land. I have a hard time with that.

It may be a small wrong, but where do you draw the line?

I kinda view it like this. Say I owned a shack. I don't use it, don't care about it. But, it's still mine. Does that give you the right to go in it? Not at all. Does it give you the right to shoot up heroin in it? Even less. How about turning it into a meth lab? What about if you were homeless and needed to use it?

All and all, the reasoning why (wheather to grow 1 plant, or 100) means nothing. I'm using the owner, I'm using his land.

I wish I wasn't plagued by these issues, but for the time being I'm having a hard time swallowing these issues in order to start a grow there.

I don't think he would booby trap the land. I dont' think he really cares about it (other than being able to sell it).

The hunting part is a good idea, I'll think about that. Thanks for that one Otoole. But for the time being I can't say that I feel comfortable re-arranging a few dead trees, digging holes and planting stuff on his land.

I don't think I would feel comfortable doing the same thing with peppers and tomatoes, let alone with illegal plants.

Well, this is unusual...but...

I really think you should just ask him. If this is what your entire operation hinges on, then why not? Explain your situation as best you can and just take a chance. You might be surprised, and even if he is an absolutely evil old man who calls 911 the second you do, so what? (this depends on your cleanliness...)

Ask if there's anything you could do in return, chop thistles, make birdhouses, clear a walking path...Maybe you could even improve the value of the land some how and help him make the sale.

Just look your fellow human in the eyes, explain yourself and ask for help. I think there is a chance it might work. And if it doesn't, it doesn't.

I predict his response, upon understanding you just want to grow four or five plants, "Hell...I don't care!"

specialkayme said:

You raise good points Otoole, and I've contemplated all of them. But I have to look at it like this: Am i concerned about my conscious, about what's rite and what's wrong, about how my actions would affect other individuals .... or am I trying to justify something that I have already decided to do anyways.

Yes, it's trespassing, and it's also willful destruction of property (or could be viewed as such) all for my personal gain. If the true owner was benefiting in the process, and was unable to get any punishment from my actions, the decision would be easier to make. But he's not benefiting, and he could get in trouble. So I am therefore using him, and using his land. I have a hard time with that.

It may be a small wrong, but where do you draw the line?

I kinda view it like this. Say I owned a shack. I don't use it, don't care about it. But, it's still mine. Does that give you the right to go in it? Not at all. Does it give you the right to shoot up heroin in it? Even less. How about turning it into a meth lab? What about if you were homeless and needed to use it?

All and all, the reasoning why (wheather to grow 1 plant, or 100) means nothing. I'm using the owner, I'm using his land.

I wish I wasn't plagued by these issues, but for the time being I'm having a hard time swallowing these issues in order to start a grow there.

I don't think he would booby trap the land. I dont' think he really cares about it (other than being able to sell it).

The hunting part is a good idea, I'll think about that. Thanks for that one Otoole. But for the time being I can't say that I feel comfortable re-arranging a few dead trees, digging holes and planting stuff on his land.

I don't think I would feel comfortable doing the same thing with peppers and tomatoes, let alone with illegal plants.

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Good point special K, about owning a shack and someone comming in to use it for shooting up.

Otoole said:

Well, this is unusual...but...

I really think you should just ask him. If this is what your entire operation hinges on, then why not? Explain your situation as best you can and just take a chance. You might be surprised, and even if he is an absolutely evil old man who calls 911 the second you do, so what? (this depends on your cleanliness...)

Ask if there's anything you could do in return, chop thistles, make birdhouses, clear a walking path...Maybe you could even improve the value of the land some how and help him make the sale.

Just look your fellow human in the eyes, explain yourself and ask for help. I think there is a chance it might work. And if it doesn't, it doesn't.

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The only problem is that violates rule #1 - Do not tell ANYONE! He could end up letting me grow, then holding it above my head later, threatening to call the cops later on. Or, he could just call the cops later, giving my information and allowing them to camp out and wait for me to return, catching me red handed. That would be worse than having the cops randomly stumble on them. It's a security risk I don't think I'll be able to take.

Plus, I'm afraid I'm going to have to disagree with you Otoole. I don't think it will go anything like this:

*Knock Knock
Me - "Excuse me sir, but I was wondering if I could grow a few pot plants on your property. I don't have land of my own, and I would really like to do it, but this is the only way I would be able to grow."
Sir - "Why not? I't snot like I can get in trouble for it, or lose my land (especially now that I know about it). Since I can't be called as an accessory to the crime, then go for it!

I think it's much more likely for it to go down like this:
*Knock Knock
Me - *same
Sir - "Are you fucking nuts? Get the fuck off my property, and don't let me every see you again!"
*Followed by
*Knock Knock
Police officer - "Good morning sir, would you mind stepping outside while we search your home?"

LordOfWar said:

Good point special K, about owning a shack and someone comming in to use it for shooting up.

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Thanks LOW

what if you owned a shack and a crack head shot up heroin in it everynight and cleaned his mess...and u never had a sweet clue he was ever there
its as if nothing ever happened, and you should look at pot growing like that
its illegal, Its like NOTHING EVER HAPPENED
you just have a couple extra ounces come september/october

i dunno man i grew 50 feet from houses in there backyard woods, the truth is most people out there arent gonna take time out of there lives to take a stab in the woods at a couple maryjane plants...

HookedOnChronic said:

what if you owned a shack and a crack head shot up heroin in it everynight and cleaned his mess...and u never had a sweet clue he was ever there
its as if nothing ever happened, and you should look at pot growing like that
its illegal, Its like NOTHING EVER HAPPENED
you just have a couple extra ounces come september/october

i dunno man i grew 50 feet from houses in there backyard woods, the truth is most people out there arent gonna take time out of there lives to take a stab in the woods at a couple maryjane plants...

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I'm afraid I'm going to have to disagree with you there. If a crack head shot up in my shack every day, and cleaned it up every night, and even if I never knew about it that doesn't make it right. It's not like nothing ever happened, because something did happen.

Your viewing right and wrong as whether or not you get caught. I'm not interested in viewing right and wrong in degrees of what it pisses other people off, but more in the view of the POTENTIAL to harm people, either legally, morally, socially, emotionally ....

If I grew on his land and he never found out, I hauled off some plants and there were no consequences all it means is I rolled the dice and didn't get snake eyes. If instead it was found and the DA prosecuted the owner, he could lose his house, lose the land, get in lots of trouble with the IRS, have the sheriff do regular check ups, he could lose his job, his wife could divorce him .... the list goes on.

Using your mentality, lets say you pull up to a red light, stop the car, but don't feel like waiting so you close your eyes and mash down on the accelerator and blow through the intersection. If you make it through the intersection unharmed does that make it not illegal? Did making it through safely justify you putting others at risk? Is it only considered wrong unless you get in a car accident, or unless there is a cop sitting on the other side of the intersection?

The measure of right and wrong, legal and illegal is not measured by if you get caught. It's measured by the actions you take and your knowledge and understanding of what's right and wrong, what's legal and illegal, what you should and should not do.

it doesnt make it right, but you never knew anyways....
its like how thousands of ppl grow pot, it doesnt make it right but no one finds out and it happens....guess what if u got a shack someone has probably smoked a joint or maybe even shot heroin up in it.....hell i bet if u own a shack tons of teens have already been into it without u knowing....(im young done it myself)

another thing is i have faith in the spots i pick to plant, i expect to NOT get caught when i pick a spot cause its that good
i also never think of gettin caught cause its just an unneeded thought, i kno im doin something illegal, i just try to outsmart the ppl out after me by picking good spots, visiting plants at a smart time of day, supplies carried, excuses why your in the woods....everything FUCK GOIN TO JAIL
if the day comes where i get caught all i can say is damn i shouldnt have grown pot and broke the law.....but fuck it id start right back up after i got out of jail....


also you said u plan on having 2-5 plants per plot......no worries about the feds thats hard to see from the sky unless YOU fuck up and make it obvious

im gettin this vibe you think your gonna get found/jacked.....i wouldnt start with that attitude ur just gonna be sketchin all the time

and honestly its my mentality towards pot growing my friend, not towards life

I'm not really worried about getting caught. It is a mild concern, but I think it should be. My concern is getting other people caught.

But with 2-5 plants I think the odds of getting caught (especially if I LST, camo, and pick a great spot) are about 1 Mill to one, but even still, there is a chance. I'll fuck up my life with choices, because I made them, but I'm not willing to fuck up other's lives with my choices, I don't think that's right.

I don't think the end justifies the means, and I don't think the means justify the end. I think that if the end AND/OR the means arn't justified, that that is your answer.

yea man sounds good, 2 different ppl, 2 different views....
personally how u say u have 1mil to 1 chance of getting caught.....i like those chances anywhere, thats the diff between me and you

for me the other person never comes into the picture, just do what i do and get in and out

but i cant wait to see your grow! you gonna take pics?

HookedOnChronic said:

yea man sounds good, 2 different ppl, 2 different views....
personally how u say u have 1mil to 1 chance of getting caught.....i like those chances anywhere, thats the diff between me and you

for me the other person never comes into the picture, just do what i do and get in and out

but i cant wait to see your grow! you gonna take pics?

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Yeah man, to each their own. I like having different opinions around, it keeps me in check.

I'll get pics going .... if I can ever decide on a spot! haha. State lands over 45 min away .... and I have serious moral concerns about growing on private land. My land is too small with not enough cover, and indoors isn't an option. I feel like I'm stuck between a rock, a hard place, a body builder, and a bulldozer. One of them is going to have to budge!

specialkayme.. I'm not sure of the legal procedures there..but..
If you were to own some land(not sure how much land you are talking about), I don't think Johnny Law can or does expect you to make sure you know what is on every square foot of your property. For some(most) that would be impossible! I don't believe they could hold the owner accountable for someone tresspassing on their property. Most likely they would press charges to avoid getting themselves in trouble(as if they were okay with you growing there). And you seem like you'd be alright with that, as you gambled and lost. I'm not sure though man. Good luck with the dilemma!

I think if I KNEW that the true owner could not be penalized in anyway I would feel better about it, but I would still have a hard time with the idea that I'm using and abusing him and his land. If there was someway to get over that idea as well, then I wouldn't have a problem with growing on his land.

But those are two rather big obstacles.

yo SKM.. I would say check out the laws..but even if he wouldn't get in trouble and you knew that, it sounds like you wouldn't want to grow on his land without him knowing. I understand what you're saying there, as I would probably feel the same if I didn't have permission. That is very respectable of you though. It is good to know that there are growers who think of others and the land! +rep for actually considering everyone involved..even if they didn't/don't know they are/were involved!

LordOfWar said:

Tell u what, u enter onto someone elses land to commit a criminal act, thats un-ethical. If ur grow gets found on his land, he could end up going to jail for your fuck up. Dont do it.

Find a national park or reserve that is GOVERNMENT OWNED. Some reserves are privately owned, stay off!

Use better judgement and dont do it. For fuck sake, just grow a small garden in ur back yard

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first of all he said that no one resides at the property currently, that being said how can they prove that the owner planted the crops? you know marijuana can be an annual plant mean it can sprout every year and spread, male and females create seeds from pollen, if the plant isnt picked or if left out long enough to drop seeds it will continue to spread, now what says somebody like this guy here didnt find this property and planted seeds? its a big chunk of land are you suppose to walk the fucker everyday just to make sure nobody planted crops on your land? 5 million dollars sounds like alot of walking.

as for better judgement your a dumbass, why would you plant in your own yard where you live? thats how you get busted alot of times thats how they end up with your indoor grow, if you got one...plant only flowers and vegetables in your at home garden its not worth the risk to grow on your property in plain site.