Daveindiego
Well-Known Member
Why? The hairs?
Flushing
- Thread starter MrsGreenThumb79
- Start date
xtsho
Well-Known Member
It's hard to tell from a picture posted on the internet but it doesn't look done to me. Looks like the hairs just turned orange and the calyx's haven't really started swelling.
MichiganMedGrower
Well-Known Member
I followed the common flushing thing when I started out too. The Jorje book recomended it. I also stayed away from the forums until I had completed educating myself and had consistent results for 2 years. The arguing and lack of knowing who is actually right was too confusing.
Your buds look great! They will get bigger and more potent with practice. Practice keeping the correct environment and practice when to water and feed.
But the bud density and quality has little to do with weeks of not feeding the plant. It is all a balance and it is not as easy to see plants needs and deficiencies in the beginning. Or even after years sometimes. I have been battling a bad calcium deficiency. It drove me nuts. I had no problem for 2 years in my new place.
It was my well water. It is softer this summer because of no rain. I guess no rain no leaching of the lime underground.
But I did not recognize it until it got bad and hurt the plants.
Don't get discouraged. Just try for yourself if you don't get answers or results you are looking for.
Many of us have compared all of these techniques and such. I say again. Look to gardening and food production for real answers on most of the common questions. Their guides are accurate. Ever notice there is specific much cheaper fertilizer for every other crop?
New Cannabis nute ratios are coming from major manufacturers now. Bet they still charge too much. Even though we don't make real money anymore.
Good growing....
jonsnow399
Well-Known Member
Are you sure the smoke caused the retardation? Better have a mental health professional check you out.
jonsnow399
Well-Known Member
Wouldn't be the first time a company sold a shitty product and made a fortune.
MichiganMedGrower
Well-Known Member
That's the first I've heard about herms caused by over feeding. Is there an actual study of this happening? I dont overfeed so maybe that's why I don't get herms. I don't think light leaks do anything other than prolong flowering and cause weird growth, I've had a few lol. Nice plant btw, I see that the tips are slightly burnt, is that an indicator that you use re not to feed more?
I have fixed light leaks that resulted in herms where the pinpoint of light was.
And any stress can cause reversal. I learned it from Pete. The breeder at CH9. When I was new I wanted to believe it was light leaks but I didn't have any. No more nutrient stress no more herms at the time.
Recently I have had a plant seed up more than any I have grown. And I am battling a major calcium deficiency. Some genetics have taken it better than others. And as I have supplemented calcium now. I have not seen another banana this cycle.
It is the Lemon Thai and diesel in my favorites that are sensitive. And it was a Medical Seeds Sour Diesel that had the major meltdown. Not a ch9 plant. And Pete warned me about the breeder there. Great pot though regardless. Came out pretty great even with some seeded lowers.
I have not seen many well conducted studies on our plant. But marijuana botany by Clark had the best info on the scientific end so far in books I have read. No propaganda with Clark.
MichiganMedGrower
Well-Known Member
I agree with @xtsho.
2 weeks.
If they stalled. And they have had a bunch of water only. I would let them dry real good and then give a light feed. Like 25% of instructions. If there are enough faded leaves left I would use a Grow ratio. The constant or early use of bloom products is the main cause of yellowing and leaf loss.
SonsOfAvery
Well-Known Member
Awww damn it, I'm always late to the party! This has been a good read to be fair, and caused me to do some research..mainly googling. But still research non the less.
For the record I'm a noob, still on my first grow, and I myself, was very confused about flushing until now.
I will NOT be flushing because.
Plants secrete compounds from their roots to aid with absorption of minerals from the rhizosphere, I don't want to suddenly be changing the composition of this system by just having water wash it all away. If I've been doing things right so far I should have a pretty decent and healthy root system/rhizosphere. If I change this by flushing it 'clean' then my plant will start to exudate more compounds into the soil and this will be detrimental to the plants growth elsewhere, and at such a crucial stage.
This is what I was reading by the way.
Soil Ecology and Management
By Joann K. Whalen, Luis Sampedro
Pages 130-131(ish) it's readable for free on Google books.
If I'm wrong, someone please tell me, I'm always willing to learn, but please don't just reply with stoner logic.
For the record I'm a noob, still on my first grow, and I myself, was very confused about flushing until now.
I will NOT be flushing because.
Plants secrete compounds from their roots to aid with absorption of minerals from the rhizosphere, I don't want to suddenly be changing the composition of this system by just having water wash it all away. If I've been doing things right so far I should have a pretty decent and healthy root system/rhizosphere. If I change this by flushing it 'clean' then my plant will start to exudate more compounds into the soil and this will be detrimental to the plants growth elsewhere, and at such a crucial stage.
This is what I was reading by the way.
Soil Ecology and Management
By Joann K. Whalen, Luis Sampedro
Pages 130-131(ish) it's readable for free on Google books.
If I'm wrong, someone please tell me, I'm always willing to learn, but please don't just reply with stoner logic.
MichiganMedGrower
Well-Known Member
Nice research!
Also running large amounts of water through potting soil ruins the cec (cation exchange) of the medium.
And of course what are they supposed to use for nutrients if needed during ripening is the best argument.
SonsOfAvery
Well-Known Member
Exactly, if my plants are growing all the way through their lives with no visible negative effects showing, why would I suddenly change what I've been doing, at arguably the most crucial time?
It's not like my plant is sucking up Nitrogen (for example) and storing it, it's just using what is available. It won't make my weed explode like some cartoon TNT spliff.
MichiganMedGrower
Well-Known Member
Be careful. Tapering down the nutes during ripening is still very important to get the best quality.
Over feeding is still the worst. That is why so many growers stick to flushing.
It is also why we can get clones to produce better flowers after a few tries. We learn what they want better.
Daveindiego
Well-Known Member
Daveindiego
Well-Known Member
One more time....
What shitty product are you talking about, as there is no shitty product sold by them for flushing.
SonsOfAvery
Well-Known Member
I will do.
I'd say I've been underfeeding if anything, so far no problems to speak off. I had one plant that had issues but I binned it, that thing was a struggle from being a seed. Took me too long to realise I need to let some go if they're just not good enough/ failing.
BigHornBuds
Well-Known Member
This is what works for me...(peat/perlite)
When the plant looks like it's about 14 -16 days from finishing , back off the ppm's till about 7 days from finish. The last week, i water with RO water (ph 6) I only give it the amount of water it needs , never "flush" 3x the container size. About 2 days before cut, i stop watering to lighten up the pots so they are lighter and easier to carry .
I hang the buds with the fan leaves except for the ones about to fall. This helps slow down the drying time, but it equals to the same dry time as if I watered normal to the end n pulled the fans to dry.
I don't like cutting down lush bright green plants as I find the taste is green even when fully mature.
What I do at the end makes the plant eat the leaves, because I'm starving it from it's normal feeding. Just like in nature at the end my leaves change color , the plant is using the stored energy in the leaf, for one last chance for reproduction.
To me , this has given me the best taste n appearance.
I have done real side by side testing with flushing n normal watering, slowing backing off ppm's vs normal feeding to the end, straight water vs flushing agents etc
I only ever tested 1 flushing product (Advanced) the only end difference was I was out $20 .
When the plant looks like it's about 14 -16 days from finishing , back off the ppm's till about 7 days from finish. The last week, i water with RO water (ph 6) I only give it the amount of water it needs , never "flush" 3x the container size. About 2 days before cut, i stop watering to lighten up the pots so they are lighter and easier to carry .
I hang the buds with the fan leaves except for the ones about to fall. This helps slow down the drying time, but it equals to the same dry time as if I watered normal to the end n pulled the fans to dry.
I don't like cutting down lush bright green plants as I find the taste is green even when fully mature.
What I do at the end makes the plant eat the leaves, because I'm starving it from it's normal feeding. Just like in nature at the end my leaves change color , the plant is using the stored energy in the leaf, for one last chance for reproduction.
To me , this has given me the best taste n appearance.
I have done real side by side testing with flushing n normal watering, slowing backing off ppm's vs normal feeding to the end, straight water vs flushing agents etc
I only ever tested 1 flushing product (Advanced) the only end difference was I was out $20 .
Kingrow1
Well-Known Member
Reasons i know off are-
-You will not be able to shift nutrients that have bonded out of solution or adsorbtion, if a root is touching these it will find a very salty surface.
-The water soluble salts you can remove with a universal solvent like water will leave an imbalance with the salts that bind to the mediums cation exchange sites and now well done noobie, youve flushed nitrogen, potassium and a few trace elements out but your now left with a shit load of zinc, copper, cobalt and phosphorus which will keep feeding your plants and cause some imbalance.
-As mentioned, most of the flush products deal with the built up salt by converting it back into its soluble form so that it will dissolve in your water and flush out. Even most of these companies realized that you dont starve any living cell at any point so added back in a weak nutrient dose so that in actual fact you are more cleaning your medium and resetting it back to a lower base level of salts plus sites where salts will chemically attach to others and the medium. Chemical science stuff like this exists in coco coir for the above mentioned reasons, once cocos cation exchange sites are full the rest of the salts will adsorb onto the coco surface, thus never let it dry down too much or bingo salt city all over again. Once again check out the flush products for their ingredients and how they work etc etc.
-Only those who havent worked out that paying better attention to nutrient levels throughout the grow is way more PRODUCTIVE than anything a flush can do harp on about flushing. Which one do YOU think will increase your yeild the most.
-You havent given one scientific reason to flush, no one else does in agriculture, they use cycles not short abrupt points that try to change the whole micro-system in one quick go.
-Most of you that flush or agree with it dont have very green plants before the flush period anyway, like the blind leading the blind.....!!!!!
Im open to your reasons why to flush but you need to do better than whatever has been said before, that said i personally dont care, what suits one is good enough but my main point was that you arent changing the final product by flushing and if you find you do then the problem lies with overfertilizing before you started the flush. Its a basic principle that is tried and tested. Flush away, i aint trying to change your mind
Daveindiego
Well-Known Member
Thanks. Awesome.Reasons i know off are-
-You will not be able to shift nutrients that have bonded out of solution or adsorbtion, if a root is touching these it will find a very salty surface.
-The water soluble salts you can remove with a universal solvent like water will leave an imbalance with the salts that bind to the mediums cation exchange sites and now well done noobie, youve flushed nitrogen, potassium and a few trace elements out but your now left with a shit load of zinc, copper, cobalt and phosphorus which will keep feeding your plants and cause some imbalance.
-As mentioned, most of the flush products deal with the built up salt by converting it back into its soluble form so that it will dissolve in your water and flush out. Even most of these companies realized that you dont starve any living cell at any point so added back in a weak nutrient dose so that in actual fact you are more cleaning your medium and resetting it back to a lower base level of salts plus sites where salts will chemically attach to others and the medium. Chemical science stuff like this exists in coco coir for the above mentioned reasons, once cocos cation exchange sites are full the rest of the salts will adsorb onto the coco surface, thus never let it dry down too much or bingo salt city all over again. Once again check out the flush products for their ingredients and how they work etc etc.
-Only those who havent worked out that paying better attention to nutrient levels throughout the grow is way more PRODUCTIVE than anything a flush can do harp on about flushing. Which one do YOU think will increase your yeild the most.
-You havent given one scientific reason to flush, no one else does in agriculture, they use cycles not short abrupt points that try to change the whole micro-system in one quick go.
-Most of you that flush or agree with it dont have very green plants before the flush period anyway, like the blind leading the blind.....!!!!!
Im open to your reasons why to flush but you need to do better than whatever has been said before, that said i personally dont care, what suits one is good enough but my main point was that you arent changing the final product by flushing and if you find you do then the problem lies with overfertilizing before you started the flush. Its a basic principle that is tried and tested. Flush away, i aint trying to change your mind
I don’t think my intent is to change the final product but to ‘clean’ up the final product. As I had mentioned anecdotally earlier, too get rid of residual phosphorus that would cause a sparkler display when combusting that flower.
Dr. Who
Well-Known Member
NOT DONE YET! No swollen calyx's, no receded pistils....... You saw a cpl of ambering trich's and figured that it's time? I say you saw the "false finish" some strains do......
Um, did you start bloom nutes right at the flip? Bet so. Yellowed up and leaves fell eh?
That is too much P, too early!
Veg nutes till week 3. Then 1:1 with bloom and full on 100% bloom at week 4. MANY nutrient feeding charts are NOT for cannabis and others are just plain wrong, about lowering N and increasing P by their rates!
Temp's = 72-74 at intermediate height from floor to ceiling.
40-45 % RH
Strictly controlling your environment = consistent results that can get you as close to plant "potential" as you can get. Depending on if you can learn to dial in your feeding/nutrient, to the strain being run.
Kingrow1
Well-Known Member
You can not clean up any plant matter in the way you are thinking, this is no where near the science of how ionic elements work within the plant, the central atom to chlorophyll is magnesium (i think, possibly in some polyatomic state idk chem that well). Adding more magnesium dosent cause the plant to just suck it up or you to CLEAN it out simply. Fuck no, the magnesium content will be based on the chlorophyll content just as potassium in cells depends on the osmotic and chemical charge etc etc.
Forget this bullshit cleaning organic matter up by flushing with water, save that for your store bough veggies before you cook them. This is a living entity, starve it, overfeed it or find the balance, stop with that mumbo jumbo flushing cleans up organic matter, does it go up to the cell and give it a good hose out or somthing.
I was at this point once, a lot of what i say will need correcting to some level but thats as basic as i understand over the years, seems to work when tested, unflushed bud that was never overfertilized taste best no competition.
MichiganMedGrower
Well-Known Member
It is improper drying and curing that causes crackles in burning weed.
Leave the same crackling bud on the table overnight and smoke it when fully dry in the morning.
It will still be harsh and taste bad likely but it should burn properly.
Over fertilized plants will stay over fertilized. They tend to taste harsher and maybe earthier after even a proper cure.
They also will never get to their potential. And will not have more or more complex cannabanoids or terpenes. Flushing during ripening also will lower canabanoids if the last elements needed by the plant are missing.
You can't see this with your eyes if the plants look healthy and they usually only test for thc and cbd in the lab in my experience. But the weed is so much stronger and with a better high when fed properly to the end. Every strain. Every time I compared clones. And appreciably higher yield too. And before they made donating overage to the dispensary illegal for us I had a strain test 2% higher in thc than the faded plant I was comparing it with. Lots of other variables can account for this. I don't put much into most side by side tests but with flushing the difference is obvious.
It does stop bad or inexperienced growers from over feeding during ripening at least.
no amount of anything poured through will rid the buds of processed elements.
Leave the same crackling bud on the table overnight and smoke it when fully dry in the morning.
It will still be harsh and taste bad likely but it should burn properly.
Over fertilized plants will stay over fertilized. They tend to taste harsher and maybe earthier after even a proper cure.
They also will never get to their potential. And will not have more or more complex cannabanoids or terpenes. Flushing during ripening also will lower canabanoids if the last elements needed by the plant are missing.
You can't see this with your eyes if the plants look healthy and they usually only test for thc and cbd in the lab in my experience. But the weed is so much stronger and with a better high when fed properly to the end. Every strain. Every time I compared clones. And appreciably higher yield too. And before they made donating overage to the dispensary illegal for us I had a strain test 2% higher in thc than the faded plant I was comparing it with. Lots of other variables can account for this. I don't put much into most side by side tests but with flushing the difference is obvious.
It does stop bad or inexperienced growers from over feeding during ripening at least.
no amount of anything poured through will rid the buds of processed elements.