For All Cap Ebb and Grow Users

oh... well fuck it then... coco or hydroton it is....

i was just looking for something that is easy to throw away and little mess... just seemed to be the answer... guess the easy answer isnt always the right one... lol

simpsonsampson420 said:

oh... well fuck it then... coco or hydroton it is....

i was just looking for something that is easy to throw away and little mess... just seemed to be the answer... guess the easy answer isnt always the right one... lol

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The idea is right. Hopefully, they will refine the design to improve performance. Doubtful, I know.

So do you use coco-specific nutes? I'm on the coco/hydroton fence myself right now.

But I don't really want to change nutes.

i dont use coco nutes.. still just use what i always have.... or said i used on the last page or page before.. somewhere around there/here....

i would much prefer to use hydroton over coco tho.. the biggest reason i am thinking of sticking to the switch is that 1) coco is much cheaper and 2, i can just throw it out.. i do that now with hydroton.. but its to expensive to keep up with doing that.. plus the hydroton is a pain in the dick to clean and get ready... hell i might even go with chunky perlite once or twice and see how that goes...

over on IC i have followed a number of threads where those STG's were used in this system and every single grow was a failure, first month or so of veg they looked dynomite and these guys tried everything, end result was they all believed that it was always too soggy at the bottom and dry up top, STG's youtube demo says if you have these issues to raise the insert itself 2 inches with pvc, i seems as if that standing water effects the drainage after a while, stg;'s other products are very good i have heard, hydroton imo is the very best , i know its the worst to prep but unlike coco and perlite where you would probably have to flood less times daily, the delievery of oxygen through the clay pellets is unmatched, actually the more daily floods the better IMO simply because the drain cycle will vacuum more O2 into the root zone more regularly, what do you guys think of my theory??

Yea, I use STG cubes and those inserts would be a nightmare unless you elevated the pot to keep it dry in the bottom. Pebbles work fine.

morrisgreenberg said:

over on IC i have followed a number of threads where those STG's were used in this system and every single grow was a failure, first month or so of veg they looked dynomite and these guys tried everything, end result was they all believed that it was always too soggy at the bottom and dry up top, STG's youtube demo says if you have these issues to raise the insert itself 2 inches with pvc, i seems as if that standing water effects the drainage after a while, stg;'s other products are very good i have heard, hydroton imo is the very best , i know its the worst to prep but unlike coco and perlite where you would probably have to flood less times daily, the delievery of oxygen through the clay pellets is unmatched, actually the more daily floods the better IMO simply because the drain cycle will vacuum more O2 into the root zone more regularly, what do you guys think of my theory??

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it really just depends on the rate the o2 gets used up by roots zones..

my guess is that roots can survive a long with low levels of o2... since they are underground and basically depend on water to deliver oxygen to them they have to be able to survive a good amount of time... so i would imagine that flooding 3 or 4 times a day keeps the roots super saturated with fresh o2 for them to utilize at any given time...

your idea makes sense tho... i understand what your thinking... again, it just depends on how much o2 the roots can use up between floodings...

the more O2 the better, it really super charges the growth rate, even in F>A>G> faux aero growing jets of water sprayed at the roots gives a substantial growth rate. personally i dont think there is anything on the market that can boost rates like added oxygen in the rootzone. for this vacuum effect in the buckets is the reason why i believe flooding buckets outperform flooding tables every time

hey sampson, how many runs have you had with the coco? for me the cost is not the issue, its just that 60 buckets worth of cleaning clay takes way too much energy and the deisposal as i used fresh each run is even more of a headache. do you pretreat your coco, i have heard you can get MG def if you do not. also hows the water retention? i hate media that stays soggy like RW etc. you said earlier you flood as normal, i always thought in a system such as ours you would flood maybe once daily. i also want to know if anyone has tried using netpot lids, as you can see i am looking to somehow dump the clay, although a post prior to this i was singing its praises, just way too much work

this is actually the first run with coco i have done...

i have it only with the autos i am running.. i am using hydroton in my photo period girls... mainly because i had enough hydroton to fill only the vegging girls.. otherwise i would have done all coco.. (i have 16 photo girls vegging while 28 autos are flowering.. clear up some confusion)

i am using piece coir from sunleaves.. its a pretreated already ripped up and ready to go coco coir.. throw it in the sites and your ready to go with it... other than raising the ph some (usually just enough to have to ph down it one additional time after my initial nute solution ph'ing) i havent noticed any negative affects from it... no defs or anything.. it could just be the piece coir since its pretreated.. i dunno tho.. i am going to impliment cal-mag into my regiment eventually.. but thats something i planned to do regardless and is not influenced by the coco coir at all...

it seems to retain water well.. but doesnt stay soggy.. or maybe i am lucky and my girls soak up all the water in between waterings.. but they never seem to droop or look bad from over watering.. i may try 3x a day just to see if there is a difference.. but i dont want to change things now.. i need some sort of a control group to base comparisons off of..

i am in the same boat with you on the hydroton.. the cost really isnt much.. in the entire scheme of things.. its more the pain in the ass of getting the hydroton ready and then disposing of hundreds of pounds of clay pellets....

i dont know about the net pot lids.. i would imagine it would add a whole new challenge to using this system... since the roots would need to stay wet/moist but would need DO from the water, getting a good flood routine down would be a challenge.. you would have to flood enough to keep the roots from drying out.. but have the res filled enough to get plenty of DO in it for the roots... could be very interesting too... and i imagine it could yield some amazing results....

out of curiosity.. how many gallons of water a day do your girls drink?? the 16 girls i have vegging right now drink about 10 gallons a day... just want to compare that to other peoples...

simpsonsampson420 said:

out of curiosity.. how many gallons of water a day do your girls drink?? the 16 girls i have vegging right now drink about 10 gallons a day... just want to compare that to other peoples...

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I have 8 girls going, 19 days into flower (hydroton). They're drinking about 3 gallons a day. But I also have the dehumidifier sitting above my controller, and it drains down and pumps back to the reservior. That may be another 2 gallons a day? It's hard to know.

one room with 20 sites runs atleast 10 gallons a day, this is late veg, as soon as they hit 24inches they take up half gallon a day, 3600w each. i have another room almost done and they seem to be drinking much slower

with an intense and good amount of lighting i would expect each plant taking up a whole gallon per day, in my old aero this is what happened, also later in flowering when roots start to lose thier luster, ya know when they turn a little tan it seems like mine also drank less

what do people mean when they say flush the system? is that just running PH corrected water through the system and plants for a day? also how much hydrogen proxide are people using? and does this really help?

Good question. I'm a noob so take this with a grain of salt.

I add 30ml of 50% H2o2 every 3 days (40 gal). This is supposed to add oxegen and merk any pathogens.

Of course, I empty the reservior and hose it down every 10-14 days. Then I refill with RO water and dose it with nutes.

Actually "flushing" the system and the plants is something I intend on doing during the last 4 days of flower. There is some stuff called FloraClean I have to buy I think. Basically, my last reservior will be straight RO and the FloraClean (no nutes). I haven't actually done it yet so I really don't have any idea what I'm talking about. I could be doing it all wrong?

in this instance they mean to clean the system out weekly.. when you change out the res get the salts and sediment out of it (the best you can) otherwise it can fuck with your plants (over time)....

i dont use h2o2... you only need to use it should you have mold or something growing in your res... an airstone/pump will give your res plenty of bubbles.. if you use organic nutes h2o2 can/will kill the micro organisims in them...

florakleen works great as a flushing agent.. it breaks the bonds formed by the salt build up... i use it a couple times throughout my grow...

1) i use it during the transition from veg to flower.. this way the roots are nice and cleaned off from any build up.. i run it for 3 days straight.. it also helps to remove the salts that are built up in the system itself and my water chillers.. helps to make everything nice and clean... then i run 4 days with 1/4 strength nutes.. but thats another story...

2) i use it the last couple days of flowering before harvest.. over the last week i run 1/4 strength nutes (4 or 5 days) and then florakleen (2 or 3 days) to get ready for harvest...

I'm running a 15 site diy ebb n gro w/ 2 strains: 5 sour p and 10 sensi hash plants.


I have a 54 g res, 1 control bucket w/ 3 ports, 5 sites per port.


The problem being the hash finishes 3-4 weeks earlier than the sour and I dont want to pre-maturely flush the sour w/ the hash plant when the sour still needs nutes if I don't need to.

Any suggestions please!

Flush them all with FloraKleen for 4 days. It won't hurt the sour and you can jump right back on the juice once the sensi is chopped.

You can't flush a plant like a radiator. There is no botanical evidence that it does anything at all. Taste is about trim, dry, and cure.

I use H202 and I recommend anyone using base mineral nutes (non-organic) use it. It works better than anything else I've tried at keeping pathogens and nasty smells out of my res for however long I want to go without a change. Using the lucas formula with addbacks and H202 I run a full month and my rez does not have a nasty film or odor in the bottom when I dump. Shit works.

yes i agree totally with DL, only with chem nutes should you use h2o2, but i strongly suggest you either use hygrozyme or aquashiled or hydrogaurd, these eat up dead/dying organic matter, one thing that not many people talk about anymore is the inoculation of beneficials, like GH's sub culture line, i am a big fan of mychorizal, the inoculants basically become root extentions and the bacterias produce the enzymes that fight of pathogens...so in essence the hygrozyme cuts out the inoculation process. best defense for any of these issues is have a chiller and run it to 65-68F and you wont need a thing, IMO h202 should be used to clean your system for the next run or for a quick shot for root rot before the application of enzymes...on another note i use PBP and recently stopped the liquid Karma because no matter how much i try to clean my system between runs i cant get the nasty sewage LK leaves behind, i wind up replacing all hosing, as you can imagine this is a nightmare on my hands, floraklean/hot water dont get rid of it, clearex/hot water wont do either, not even hot water and peroxide do the trick, so not only do i have to dispose of used clay but i have to completly dismantle everything, i am considering switching nutes but that leaves me with white salty residue that is equally hard to get rid of, if you dont clean this salt this will skew your ppm and PH numbers....any of you guys have a good method for cleansing without dismantling im all ears fellas, i got these system for ease of use, beatween trimming and getting ready for another run its not perpetual anymore

I get very little build up with floranova nutes and a simple cleanse with H202 and water once a cycle keeps things nice and clean. PBP is terrible about sludge. What a nightmare that would be in this system. I would definitely consider changing your nute line. Organic hydro is mess soup, bro. As I'm sure you already know, plants take up the inorganic base minerals at the rot level so it really is just a means to an end. All the same ions.

EDIT: I'm going to do dynagro next. Simple and complete.