For all new growers with questions... Tons of information and answers..

boseke420 said:

simpsonsampson420 said:

Hey thanks for the input my man. However I should have qualified my post with the fact that they are autos. So they no likey the switch to 12/12. Keepin 'em @ 20/4 for their entire lives. Good info. re: reg. photo beans tho.

Thanks a bunch for ur 2 cents

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jdizzle22 said:

Do you have any good fans you can recommend for the reflector/light? My air filter thingy is supposedly 48 dBA and I know that kind of thing is hard to calculate, but its like a loud gaming computer and its only 130cfm. Are there any high powered fans I could use for the venting that wouldn't be much louder? Any difference between squirrel cage fans, inline fans, can fans, etc. in your experience? I don't know much about any of these things yet.

I just read someone say that inline fans are only boosters so they aren't as powerful, but are far more quiet.*
This is a good I think, someone was raving about it on another site, supposed to be super quiet and not much less than 300cfm http://www2.panasonic.com/consumer-electronics/shop/Building-Products/Ventilation-Systems/Inline-Fans/model.FV-20NLF1.S_11002_7000000000000005702#tabsection

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showhard2handle said:

THanks for the kind words my man, your seal of approval is definitely some kick ass encouragement. Here are some pics of the girls from today, (I realize it's bascially 4 shots of the same picture, but the flash was fukin up & just wanted to give you the best seat possible for a prognosis).

I've been changin the res. out every Saturday, so I went ahead & loaded her back up with freshie water & same VEG nutes they been on. I see some flowering sites, but seems like they haven't made the switch yet. Specially from what I read about 'em, says they go into almost a "violent" flowering stage. I have to assume even a newb like me would be able to qualify that change. However, please take a look & lemme know what ya think.

The drippers were gettin a little cloggy lookin w/ salt deposit I suppose. So I yanked them out & changed them out with new ones (hopefully for soon upcoming flower stage). So I shoud be good, just need to know when to start the "ween" to flower nutes.

I'm also soakin my photo beans tonight & gonna get them in the tray tomorow night. Last time I did the jury rigged thing at the tops of the plugs with rippin a small piece of material off of a separate rooter to cover the hole @ top. Can't remember if you said that was good or not. My conventional wisdom is to cover it with the extra material (as that is how I have planted every other type of seed since I was a kid). But would they be alright just gettin dropped into the holes & leave them uncovered (direct flo light on the butkus of the bean). I know it sounds trivial, just wanna make sure I nail these photos, and get some good moms rockin. So I guess this is one of those: What would Sampson do?? type thingies.

I also went ahead & changed up from the halide to the HPS (OG bulb that came with light, it didn't break & is kickin ass so far, so hey). I think your suggestion to use halide for first few weeks was spot on (hell its all been spot on), created some massive branching on virtually every on of those chicks. Granted, I may be completely off base in that analysis. I just remember readin threads bout autos, and everyone stressed the importance of branching as much as possible, will OBV. produce best yield possible. I'm thrilled with evthing so far. That recipe for success kicks ass, just bought another one today, so gonna stay with them.

From the looks of things, how much longer do you think these girls will occupy the system (I wont holda ya to it, just a guess doc). Gonna go ahead & start these photos. Got the waterfarm ready 2 roll. Just need to get a dozen from bean & be ready to replace into v-drip & wanna coordinate properly.

You're the man, thanks for evthing, especially my incessant quentioning.

Stay up my man!

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boseke420 said:

ok i was just curious i have some good noeds going but how will i now what pre flower looks like iidk im a newb lol

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jdizzle22 said:

Oh man I kind of spaced about penetration. I had just read several times that for a tent the size of mine *GL80 that 400w was good, and some people said 6 plants is certainly fine. I only have 3 right now and they are definitely not all the same strain (they are just growing too different I think). Supposed to be pretty good bag seed stock. I only have 3 in there right now, what would you guys recommend I let them veg to before I induce flowering? I forgot about penetration and was just going to let them go to almost half the height they could possibly grow to (forgetting about how they could tripple).

Right now the safe distance of the 400w hps from the top of the tallest plant keeps it about halfway up the whole tent. How much taller should I let them grow before I am risking how tall they might ever get? I have probably a little over 2 more feet that I can raise the reflector up to without it getting in the way of the air filter.

Here is a picture from yesterday or something

PS: I just thought to pH test my plants with that cheap like 8 dollar pH stick. According to that 2 of my plants are only about 5.5, and one is 6.5 In the picture the 2 with 5.5 are the tallest and the smallest. I did think I noticed the 2nd to last time i watered I had forgotten to pH test and the day after that the 2nd tallest leveled out all its leaves and has been doing great. So I think there could be a pH problem with the other 2. Apparently one of them is stable and 6.5 and the others are only 5.5 How can I safely raise that up a point? Should I give them water with a pH of 7.5?****** can't believe I have been forgetting to write down my specific pH water recordings and actual adjustment amounts! But I'm not sure which is which, but when I pH test its usually either around 4.0 or lower, or its about 8 (either pink or dark green haha). I'm not sure which one of those is for water with superthrive, or water with superthrive and growbig.

PSS: Ok I just read that last post about how tall they grow and no point in a 4ft 400w plant. So I guess what I should end up doing is probably a SOG or take a few plants and lst them around so I can get more plant with less height. I don't want to risk screwing up big my first round so I will let these grow normal. Plus this way I can still get some material to my patient before I start risking lst and scrog and what not

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choempi said:

I am starting a closet flood and ebb grow with a seat of the pants approach...

Bagseed and CFLs till upgrades numerous...

I have read and re-read this thread many times and booked multiples...

This thread is the best I have read and have scoured the web...


I smell a book?

Thanks for being willing to share, that is hard to do when you don't have to...

subscribed big time Sam, keep it live!

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choempi said:

SimpsonSam I'm gonna call you Sam...

The Situation: 3 x 2 x8 closet, final objective a monthly harvest.

Background: I have not grown since 1990, inside with a 1000 MH and trays with bubblers, media lava rocks in styrofoam, end result good weed to smoke but small in proprtion to effort...

Bought a light from a ad in High Times, thought everything was good and never a thought as to delivery of nutes and such.

Miracle Gro...

Woke up, got outa bed...

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AiFYOn1AFms[/youtube]

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boseke420 said:

wen should i intro flower??

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showhard2handle said:

boseke420 said:

Hey thanks for the input my man. However I should have qualified my post with the fact that they are autos. So they no likey the switch to 12/12. Keepin 'em @ 20/4 for their entire lives. Good info. re: reg. photo beans tho.

Thanks a bunch for ur 2 cents

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i still think i got the question answered.. if i didnt just ask again.. lol

bobbychuck67 said:

P.S. Sorry for dropping the F-bomb in my last post. Don't want to disrespect the thread!

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dont sweat it.. fuck is my favorite word.. i use it fondly... lol

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simpsonsampson420 said:

hey bro... looks like things are coming along nice..

i would go ahead and start making the switch over to flowering nutes... by the time you eliminate the veg nutes they will be ready to go...

drippers can get clogged easily.. its a good idea to clean them somewhat frequently...

you dont need to cover the beans up when you put them in the rooting cube.. the hole should close over them.. if they dont close a little bit of scratching to get the hole covered is fine.. no need to work too hard.. lol

glad to hear they branched well.. thats the key to good yields... many nice thick branches... also glad the tachnaflora is working out well.. it is a good idea to stick with it a few runs until you get broke in.. but i do urge you to try different nutes to see if there is a better fit for you... or even experiment a little with your own nute recipes...

i would estimate (and its a pretty rough one..) about 5 weeks until chop... how long has it been from seed now??

showhard2handle said:

Hey bro, thanks for the wisdom. Auto beans were popped on 1-15, went into the v-drip system the following weekend (1-23). Had that little exhaust set back (case & point to the dude you mentioned the fan for in the post, dude inline fans are worthless! THe original Can Fan is the nuts. & yeah, watch the angles.

Anyway Sampson, preesh the estimate on chop time. Any closer estimate u could make w/ the start date i just provided would be choice. Tryin to make things synched up & ready to pop as best as possible.

I'm gonna go ahead & add another gallon of water, and start with say 1/4 strength flower nutes.

Lemme know on that nute proportion. GOnna wait to to that til I hear back from you.

Finaly, you know I always got 1 last thing (or 10). Anyway, like i said I been using the HPS bulb that came with the light I bought (along with the halide bulb). Now it says the word "GROW" on it. Here's why I ask...

I noticed that when I was playin it safe & usin the cheap $20 HPS bulb from HD, the light was way more amber / straight red. WHich is also what I have read is the most citical for flowering. THis bulb (the one that came with the light). Looks nicer that the HD one, however, the light it puts off is very similar to the halide bulb. Very white type light, with maybe a hint of yellow.

It's just a huge difference in the contrast of hues between the HD cheap bulb & the one that came with it that says "GROW". During my research I have read tons of varying opinions obv., but seems that folks say that the extra blue spectrum is added in, so that you could use the same HPS bulb through both veg & bloom.

To finally bottle the question here. Would you stick with the "GROW" HPS (white light) that came in with the light, or switch up to the HD cheapie (red light) since I am lookin for pure bloom spectrum.

Trivial & stupid question I'm sure.

Thanks for the patience in essentially hokkin up my education. Man, good thing you don't hit a brotha up per hour. ha.

For real bud, thanks for all your time, this virtual tech. support is absolutely crucial.

A gentleman & scholar you are!

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showhard2handle said:

Hey bro, thanks for the wisdom. Auto beans were popped on 1-15, went into the v-drip system the following weekend (1-23). Had that little exhaust set back (case & point to the dude you mentioned the fan for in the post, dude inline fans are worthless! THe original Can Fan is the nuts. & yeah, watch the angles.

Anyway Sampson, preesh the estimate on chop time. Any closer estimate u could make w/ the start date i just provided would be choice. Tryin to make things synched up & ready to pop as best as possible.

I'm gonna go ahead & add another gallon of water, and start with say 1/4 strength flower nutes.


Finaly, you know I always got 1 last thing (or 10). Anyway, like i said I been using the HPS bulb that came with the light I bought (along with the halide bulb). Now it says the word "GROW" on it. Here's why I ask...

I noticed that when I was playin it safe & usin the cheap $20 HPS bulb from HD, the light was way more amber / straight red. WHich is also what I have read is the most citical for flowering. THis bulb (the one that came with the light). Looks nicer that the HD one, however, the light it puts off is very similar to the halide bulb. Very white type light, with maybe a hint of yellow.

It's just a huge difference in the contrast of hues between the HD cheap bulb & the one that came with it that says "GROW". During my research I have read tons of varying opinions obv., but seems that folks say that the extra blue spectrum is added in, so that you could use the same HPS bulb through both veg & bloom.

To finally bottle the question here. Would you stick with the "GROW" HPS (white light) that came in with the light, or switch up to the HD cheapie (red light) since I am lookin for pure bloom spectrum.

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jdizzle22 said:

Thanks man, I had a feeling that 1-2 weeks was probably what I would go for. I think I will make the switch on the 1st of march, unless they had already started alternating nodes.

I just noticed today, upon closer inspection, that Berri is going nuts all over her first 5 inches. It is hard to capture with my digital camera, but basically she already has new branches growing new leaves off of branches with new leaves coming off the main stalk.

So I can see this (in the places its not so thick with foliage I can't see in deeper). She has these branches growing off the main stalk, that have several new leaves growing off of those branches! Oh god its hard to describe. She has like new baby stalks growing off of branches growing off of branches growing off the main stalk? Its like her genes are telling her to grow out of and off of every possible frikkin angle as early as possible. Main Stem-new branch-4 new sets of leaves growing off that-teeniest tiniest baby leaves that look like they could by those girly hair. Ok I am just going mad trying to explain this! Is she a super freak?

Also: I have no idea what strains or sativa/indica background any of them come from.
PS: Would you recommend I use books and such to raise the smaller plants up so that all the plants tops are evenly close to the light? *i just did but I don't know if that is really considering all possible factors

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NoCeilings said:

i have a couple simple questions that im sure would help many newbs, like me, out. lets say i have several young plants outdoors and they are vegging. what i want is to know which plants are male, so i can stop wasting expensive FF soil and nutes on them. i throw a sheet over them to induce flowering (12/12). i notice the males, and i exterminate the males. i have all females now, i know that.. but:

1) will this (veg>flower>back to veg) have any negative effects on my plants?
2) does the time at which i induce flowering matter (younger or older?)

no, im NOT going to buy fem seeds lol. thanks

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jdizzle22 said:

going back to veg from flowering is a bad idea, it has bad side effects. Yes you can often go back to veg from flower, but its not really ever worth it. However, wait until someone who knows better before you change whatever you are doing right now. If you are vegging again right now, I am not sure if it is worth it to switch back to flowering, or if that would just make things even worse. Just stay at whatever you are at now until he responds. But update yourself: Explain - are you actually back to vegging right now?

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jdizzle22 said:

Forgot to mention: During the plants night time I have the air filter plugged into a timer thing so it comes on for a half hour every hour and a half.

Yeah man I guess I got a bag of mutant seeds! I wet towel 4 seeds, all 4 pop! One never sprouts, one was a fist of leaves the first 5 weeks of its life, and now another is growing a jungle a couple inches off of the ground!

Now I will try to justify this post with a real question... Umm... Hmm... Ok how about this? So the reflector glass is rectangular with the bulb hung horizontally on one end. How should I lay out my plants? Right now I have them so that 2 pots are lined up with the edge of the reflector on the side with the bulb, and so that the bulb is lined up with the line that the 2 pots touch each other. Then I have the 3rd pot, I'll just draw a picture! So my question is: Is there a better way I could arrange these? * I'm not sure if the bulb throws way more light out ahead of it vs behind it... etc *pic isn't exactly scale, ex: bulb definitely dosen't take up that much space of the hood

PS: So its not going quite so crazy, but on the tallest plant it does have a good amount of new leaves coming in around the base under the first couple major pairs. Mostly the same thing just not as many, has some branches growing off the main stem that have new leaves/branches growing off those. Also the fist shaped one is probably having the similar thing, just harder to tell because its still pretty curled up and crazy fist shaped. Man I really got a bag of mutants?

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NoCeilings said:

i have a couple simple questions that im sure would help many newbs, like me, out. lets say i have several young plants outdoors and they are vegging. what i want is to know which plants are male, so i can stop wasting expensive FF soil and nutes on them. i throw a sheet over them to induce flowering (12/12). i notice the males, and i exterminate the males. i have all females now, i know that.. but:

1) will this (veg>flower>back to veg) have any negative effects on my plants?
2) does the time at which i induce flowering matter (younger or older?)

no, im NOT going to buy fem seeds lol. thanks

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boseke420 said:

how much would a cheap cfl lighting cost me and how many k should they be?? im just wondering whats the best cheapest possible settup my plants can efficently grow on isnt this every 's dream lol

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NoCeilings said:

good thorough answer man +rep for that. main reason i dont want to buy fem seeds is because i need one or two males to make seeds for next year. plus i dont want to buy 5 fems and get a couple hermies. but i guess youre right when you say thats unlikely if bought from a reputable bank. so much for Joe Blow's Discount Seeds

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zues said:

Can somebody help me wit my question

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simpsonsampson420 said:

there is not right or wrong way to set up plants under the light.. you want to optimize the amount of light they are getting, but in a space your size it shouldnt be a problem anywhere they are at... what you can do (if you so choose) is to rotate the pots every few days so the side away from the light is now facing the light... it will help expose the entire plant a little more... but it isnt a huge deal...

getting mutants in bag seed isnt uncommon.. even if the seeds come from good bud (which means they will produce the same bud, yes) they can still have all sorts of genetic mutations and such... i dont see anything wrong with them, except they look crazy..



1) going from veg to flower back to veg can have devistating effects on your plant.. the main thing is the stress that it will cause.. which is enormous.. there is a VERY high chance of your females turning hermie from it.. light cycle stresses carry the highest chance of causing hermies over any stress that can be induced (except chemical).. so i would suggest "wasting" the nutes until you can properly identify the males and females.. which brings me (and ties into) the second question...

2) now if you are growing outdoors you cant really control when flowering starts... unless you want to manually cover and uncover the plants like you mentioned above.. but thats a pain in the ass and will stand out like a sore thumb...

most mj plants, after a 4 to 6 week veg time, will reach maturity and show their sex before flowering ever starts... there is NO chance of pollination at this point.. they are just preflowers... basically a way to tell you if they are male or female... females will show 2 white pistils that will pop out of the green V-fingers at each main node set on the main stalk... if allowed to veg long enough the pistils will show all over... i had a female that looked like it was flowering in veg because of the preflowers she was showing.. males will show their sacs.. but wont have pollen in them... so you dont have to worry about getting you females pregnant..

now my main question to you is why are you against fem'd seeds?? there is a lot of mis information about them... i would very much like to know if you have been fed that info... imho it is a waste of money (unless you plan on breeding) to get mixed seeds... fem'd seeds from a quality breeder and seed bank will have a 100% female growth rate... maybe 1 out of every 100 now MIGHT, and i stress might, be a hermie.. but that is getting less and less common... assuming again you are choosing a quality breeder and not snookie and ray rays discount beans.. lol

if you wait until the plant has reached its maturity (seeing preflowers or alternating nodes appear) then when you flower you can get 10)% of the flowering capabilities to show in the plant... if they flower younger, although you will still get a harvest, it will not be as potent or as much as if the plant reached maturity... the longer the veg the larger the harvest...



ok.... here is the thing with cfls that makes this answer hard to answer....

it really comes down to the results you are looking for....

since cfls dont penetrate well at all it takes a lot of them to properly flower a plant... maybe 3 cfls per plant to get a decent harvest... but even in the end, the harvest you get from cfls (on a watt per watt basis) is not going to compare to and HID or high output floro set up...

with that said, i dont want to discourage as you can get a harvest... i just dont want you to over expect and then get bummed...

if i had to make a setup using cfls.... i would at least 3x 23w cfls per plant... with a plant height not to exceed 18" total... 12" would be better...

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