freedom of thought, which amendment protects that?

DNAprotection said:

all words make me uncomfortable because they just dont seem to cut the mustard from my view and need to express etc so i hear ya...but words are what they use to hang us with so im just using such words in effort to pull said 'head' out of the noose (if you will)...
the constitution is an effort to protect 'rights' we were born with as humans so for me its just a matter of working the best with what we got...
but i hear ya bro...

Click to expand...

I work with the best and the worst in mind, the status quo is far from where I eat. My rights are best suited to be articulated and shared.

DNAprotection said:

seriously? i guess we must agree to disagree on that one...

Click to expand...

Is there anything you eat that does not either have corn, soy or organophosphates in or on it? You are not only being raped but paying for the privelege.

But keep up your beliefs, that is exactly what is intended. On my best day, in summer, when I grow much of my own food, even on that day I wind up consuming things I do not wish to consume. If I wash my body or my hair, if I rinse my mouth, smoke my cigar, drink my scotch, turn on the TV, ride down the highway, breath the air, kiss my wife, drink bottled water, wash my cloths. Do you seriously think we are all majorly complicit in this?

When did you make the choice to consume MSG or bud stop? Tell me the reasoning and the approximate time.

burgertime2010 said:

I work with the best and the worst in mind, the status quo is far from where I eat. My rights are best suited to be articulated and shared.

Click to expand...

You work now? Congrats for getting off the dole.

What if a technology existed which cannot be defeated? Yeahright. Never has happened and never will.

I am not worried. The fact the fake hippies miss, is the details of the System. I know I did. I wanted to know, had the time to find, and had a good primary education on civics, to know how to find out.

There are 2 things that are the very foundation of Americanism. All the money culture, and kick ass tech to protect it,and everything else, including social, upward mobility, comes from these, I think. And these are so powerful, they do not even teach them. And the first one is so powerful, it is not allowed to be mentioned, in the process.

1 - Jury Nullification
2 - 9th Amendment's extent is un-bounded and un-defined. (see number 1)

This is a big reason why I just enjoy the struggle. I never bought into the idea that Bush is a War Criminal but Obama is not. And I never bought the idea that Obama has ruined the country but Bush did not.

If any are lies, all are lies. That is accorded, formally, by the Criminal Justice System and exercised quite naturally, by the voting public.

It is the same with nullification. It has nothing to do with the outcome however. The outcome is often, forgiveness. That is the weird and sullen beauty of it all.

Any defendant, prosecutor, Judge can and does get nullified in either direction, same with any candidate for office.

WE run this show, but we love to sleep through the boring parts. The rule of law runs the boring parts.

canndo said:

You still aren't getting thhe essence of mind control. We believe our choices are our own and that if we REALLY REALLY wanted to we could change the way things are. That is what I see here and people are loath to believe otherwise because that is the way they believe now. The people must forever have hope, should they ever perceive that they are in the situation they are in. Your individual heroics mean nothing in the large picture. Let us look at something that could have been "choice" changing" - silk road. How long did that last?


Look around you, this manipulation is constant and pervasive, much as water to a fish. They cannot even see that water, nor would they particularly care should they get a glimpse, and as you, those glimpses occur. You found a lucky loophole. I have found a few myself, and of course there is the underground where the same influences do not apply, but it is called "underground" for a reason.

Click to expand...

canndo so are you saying our thoughts arent our own anyways so best we trust who owns them and folks should just assimilate because resistance is futile?


[video=youtube;3nhgfjrKi0o]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3nhgfjrKi0o[/video]

Doer said:

What if a technology existed which cannot be defeated? Yeahright. Never has happened and never will.

I am not worried. The fact the fake hippies miss, is the details of the System. I know I did. I wanted to know, had the time to find, and had a good primary education on civics, to know how to find out.

There are 2 things that are the very foundation of Americanism. All the money culture, and kick ass tech to protect it,and everything else, including social, upward mobility, comes from these, I think. And these are so powerful, they do not even teach them. And the first one is so powerful, it is not allowed to be mentioned, in the process.

1 - Jury Nullification
2 - 9th Amendment's extent is un-bounded and un-defined. (see number 1)

This is a big reason why I just enjoy the struggle. I never bought into the idea that Bush is a War Criminal but Obama is not. And I never bought the idea that Obama has ruined the country but Bush did not.

If any are lies, all are lies. That is accorded Criminal Justice and the voting public. It is the same with nullification.

Any defendant, prosecutor, Judge can and does get nullified in either direction, same with any candidate for office.

WE run this show, but we love to sleep through the boring parts.

Click to expand...

No, you think you run the show, we all do. The Tea party with it's monied astroturf beginnings all think that they not only run things within their own organization but that their ideas are their own.


And of course there is the Occupy movement - if that is what it is called, by virtue of the fact that they are NOT run by directed, self interested groups, they go no where, they are painted as mindless hippie types (though they are no more mindless than the Tea Party). ALL of them think they are running the show, none o them are. This is a part of any PR campaign. The ideas they give you must be your own.

DNAprotection said:

canndo so are you saying our thoughts arent our own anyways so best we trust who owns them and folks should just assimilate because resistance is futile?


[video=youtube;3nhgfjrKi0o]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3nhgfjrKi0o[/video]

Click to expand...

Not even close. The best way to combat this is to understand that they are NOT our own thoughts, that we are influenced in every direction and follow the sources of that influence. Make places like sourcewatch your go to - interestingly, many must deny sourcewatch as a "leftist" organization becuase it might cause them to think. Most on the left won't watch Fox because they have already labeled it as what it is and they think that by refusing to watch, they can immunize themselves from Fox's effects upon the population. Learn and sense the manipulatory words. oh, I saw one yesterday "wholesome goodness". Question these nonsense phrases, find own who owns what companies, trace back memes, discover plants, smoke a bowl every now and again and contemplate your situation, take some acid or mushrooms and expose yourself to the full brunt of the influence that surrounds us.


What we can do is become aware - all the time, of what is being done to us with the caviot that at least at present we can do little to combat it because thinking otherwise is something they want us to do.


Sound paranoid? I'm not, all I can urge is clarity. It is certitude that is the enemy but clarity is not certitude.

canndo said:

Not even close. The best way to combat this is to understand that they are NOT our own thoughts, that we are influenced in every direction and follow the sources of that influence. Make places like sourcewatch your go to - interestingly, many must deny sourcewatch as a "leftist" organization becuase it might cause them to think. Most on the left won't watch Fox because they have already labeled it as what it is and they think that by refusing to watch, they can immunize themselves from Fox's effects upon the population. Learn and sense the manipulatory words. oh, I saw one yesterday "wholesome goodness". Question these nonsense phrases, find own who owns what companies, trace back memes, discover plants, smoke a bowl every now and again and contemplate your situation, take some acid or mushrooms and expose yourself to the full brunt of the influence that surrounds us.


What we can do is become aware - all the time, of what is being done to us with the caviot that at least at present we can do little to combat it because thinking otherwise is something they want us to do.


Sound paranoid? I'm not, all I can urge is clarity. It is certitude that is the enemy but clarity is not certitude.

Click to expand...

Like how Pepsi drinking prolifers get their RDA of baby fetus?

canndo said:

Not even close. The best way to combat this is to understand that they are NOT our own thoughts, that we are influenced in every direction and follow the sources of that influence. Make places like sourcewatch your go to - interestingly, many must deny sourcewatch as a "leftist" organization becuase it might cause them to think. Most on the left won't watch Fox because they have already labeled it as what it is and they think that by refusing to watch, they can immunize themselves from Fox's effects upon the population. Learn and sense the manipulatory words. oh, I saw one yesterday "wholesome goodness". Question these nonsense phrases, find own who owns what companies, trace back memes, discover plants, smoke a bowl every now and again and contemplate your situation, take some acid or mushrooms and expose yourself to the full brunt of the influence that surrounds us.


What we can do is become aware - all the time, of what is being done to us with the caviot that at least at present we can do little to combat it because thinking otherwise is something they want us to do.


Sound paranoid? I'm not, all I can urge is clarity. It is certitude that is the enemy but clarity is not certitude.

Click to expand...

for me 'thinking' otherwise is something that evolution demands we do...evolution occurs in response to a change in circumstance etc and in effort to adapt to such changes etc...
other than that (and maybe a couple fine points here and there) i dont disagree with much you have written in this thread...
but sometimes everything hinges on the finer points...
the main one being that we as individuals can always choose the 'other' option (which includes all possible possibilities ) and as everything is relative and or connected to kevin bacon it will have a ripple effect...

Doer said:

What if a technology existed which cannot be defeated? Yeahright. Never has happened and never will.

I am not worried. The fact the fake hippies miss, is the details of the System. I know I did. I wanted to know, had the time to find, and had a good primary education on civics, to know how to find out.

There are 2 things that are the very foundation of Americanism. All the money culture, and kick ass tech to protect it,and everything else, including social, upward mobility, comes from these, I think. And these are so powerful, they do not even teach them. And the first one is so powerful, it is not allowed to be mentioned, in the process.

1 - Jury Nullification
2 - 9th Amendment's extent is un-bounded and un-defined. (see number 1)

This is a big reason why I just enjoy the struggle. I never bought into the idea that Bush is a War Criminal but Obama is not. And I never bought the idea that Obama has ruined the country but Bush did not.

If any are lies, all are lies. That is accorded, formally, by the Criminal Justice System and exercised quite naturally, by the voting public.

It is the same with nullification. It has nothing to do with the outcome however. The outcome is often, forgiveness. That is the weird and sullen beauty of it all.

Any defendant, prosecutor, Judge can and does get nullified in either direction, same with any candidate for office.

WE run this show, but we love to sleep through the boring parts. The rule of law runs the boring parts.

Click to expand...

beenthere Doer and it was a lonely place lol...even in so called 'victory'...'it takes a village' to well hang a hitlery (if you will) lol...
and this bit 'Yeahright. Never has happened and never will.' would fit nicely on a tombstone as someones famous last words etc..
but im with ya in spirit

DNAprotection said:

for me 'thinking' otherwise is something that evolution demands we do...evolution occurs in response to a change in circumstance etc and in effort to adapt to such changes etc...
other than that (and maybe a couple fine points here and there) i dont disagree with much you have written in this thread...
but sometimes everything hinges on the finer points...
the main one being that we as individuals can always choose the 'other' option (which includes all possible possibilities ) and as everything is relative and or connected to kevin bacon it will have a ripple effect...

Click to expand...

Evolution demands we do nothing at all save reproduce. Thinking is an artifact of the drive to do so. I will return again to my primary example. Within 10 years it is highly unlikely that you will have any choice in the food you eat or the chemicals you are exposed to and even if there were a tsunamilike groundswell of reistance it will have been too late. Your choices are again merely options given you by others. Ripple effects are the first "effects" harnessed by big business. As I said, they spend billions getting in front of trends and they get better at it all the time. Can a fractionated country, concerned about their football team, hating Obama or going on about "And God Made a Liberal" compete with Cigna, BofA, Dow, Monsanto, Anthem, Exon and any of the others, when they are in any sort of concert?

The very shortest of answers is no.

Here is an example. I had a friend who wanted to boycott a chickfilla (an example, this wasn't the company) for their position and active stance on gay rights. Fine. So he got his friends to quit eating there, and he got to see the franchize owner. "Look, I understand your situation" the owner said "but I don't have any say. i just get their products, treat my employees best I can and feed my children with the proceeds". So who were they actually hurting? Chickfilla? or someone just like themselves with a family to feed and an interest in doing right as often as he can?

Now, we know Halliburton has caused no end of havoc in the country and the world - but Halliburton is a B2B enterprise. Who exactly are you goiing to boycott in order to teach them a lesson? Most have no idea exactly how they personally interact with Halliburton. And this is the way things are.

canndo said:

Evolution demands we do nothing at all save reproduce. Thinking is an artifact of the drive to do so. I will return again to my primary example. Within 10 years it is highly unlikely that you will have any choice in the food you eat or the chemicals you are exposed to and even if there were a tsunamilike groundswell of reistance it will have been too late. Your choices are again merely options given you by others. Ripple effects are the first "effects" harnessed by big business. As I said, they spend billions getting in front of trends and they get better at it all the time. Can a fractionated country, concerned about their football team, hating Obama or going on about "And God Made a Liberal" compete with Cigna, BofA, Dow, Monsanto, Anthem, Exon and any of the others, when they are in any sort of concert?

The very shortest of answers is no.

Here is an example. I had a friend who wanted to boycott a chickfilla (an example, this wasn't the company) for their position and active stance on gay rights. Fine. So he got his friends to quit eating there, and he got to see the franchize owner. "Look, I understand your situation" the owner said "but I don't have any say. i just get their products, treat my employees best I can and feed my children with the proceeds". So who were they actually hurting? Chickfilla? or someone just like themselves with a family to feed and an interest in doing right as often as he can?

Now, we know Halliburton has caused no end of havoc in the country and the world - but Halliburton is a B2B enterprise. Who exactly are you goiing to boycott in order to teach them a lesson? Most have no idea exactly how they personally interact with Halliburton. And this is the way things are.

Click to expand...

the answer will of course always be 'no' if we as individuals keep letting that be satisfactory...
and i must say that imo this bit is simply over simplified:
"Evolution demands we do nothing at all save reproduce. Thinking is an artifact of the drive to do so"
and is mathematically impossible from full view because evolution demands thought and adaptation in effort to reproduce and 'raise' your young etc and every lil bit within that wide scope contributes to the next step in an ever evolving cycle...that is unless your species goes extinct (sometimes do to lack of breeding caused by lack of forethought/thought to adapt and survive any particular circumstance etc)

DNAprotection said:

the answer will of course always be 'no' if we as individuals keep letting that be satisfactory...
and i must say that imo this bit is simply over simplified:
"Evolution demands we do nothing at all save reproduce. Thinking is an artifact of the drive to do so"
and is mathematically impossible from full view because evolution demands thought and adaptation in effort to reproduce and 'raise' your young etc and every lil bit within that wide scope contributes to the next step in an ever evolving cycle...that is unless your species goes extinct (sometimes do to lack of breeding caused by lack of forethought/thought to adapt and survive any particular circumstance etc)

Click to expand...

When we can concoct, enact and fund a national public interest lobby that has power equal to or greater than the conglomerate lobbies of the more monied - and this possibility decreases as more and more money trickles UP as it is proven it does, we may well be able to combat the influences that affect us on a day to day basis.

again I will speak of GMOs. Soon, you will NOT have a choice, you will not even be advised that your food is contaminated. This nullified the individual in his ability to actually choose. Who is perpetuating and accelerating this trend using the power of government, money, propaganda and PR? How does the individual combat such a thing?

There are a great number of species who do not, in our sense of the word, "think", and they seem to last. Evolution does not demand thought, in many cases it may even retard it.

the majority of this country want some sort of gun control, where is that control? the majority want abortion to be available and yet that availability is continualy reduced - sometimes individuals who seek to reverse this trend are shot and killed or.... their property is destroyed.

canndo said:

No, you think you run the show, we all do. The Tea party with it's monied astroturf beginnings all think that they not only run things within their own organization but that their ideas are their own.


And of course there is the Occupy movement - if that is what it is called, by virtue of the fact that they are NOT run by directed, self interested groups, they go no where, they are painted as mindless hippie types (though they are no more mindless than the Tea Party). ALL of them think they are running the show, none o them are. This is a part of any PR campaign. The ideas they give you must be your own.

Click to expand...

What is about WE run the show, that has the sophist say these things? You said, you may only think you run the show, actually we do. That is what I said. Why disagree?

Then you agreed up the ass with me about mindless hippies to idiot Tees. So, you are a funny guy, and stoned I hope. All of us are responsible for this mess. No party screwed it and no party fixed anything...ever.

It is all WE if you can get a citizenship.

So, I am in the middle and I mean that most severe. Don't froget either about the big, wide middle of don't care.

Most Americans will say non-political...70% maybe. So, think of these little, partisan slices, we are suppose to take so seriously. A joke, right? Yet, that is the big fat WE. WE are not political. Think about it.

canndo said:

When we can concoct, enact and fund a national public interest lobby that has power equal to or greater than the conglomerate lobbies of the more monied - and this possibility decreases as more and more money trickles UP as it is proven it does, we may well be able to combat the influences that affect us on a day to day basis.

again I will speak of GMOs. Soon, you will NOT have a choice, you will not even be advised that your food is contaminated. This nullified the individual in his ability to actually choose. Who is perpetuating and accelerating this trend using the power of government, money, propaganda and PR? How does the individual combat such a thing?

There are a great number of species who do not, in our sense of the word, "think", and they seem to last. Evolution does not demand thought, in many cases it may even retard it.

the majority of this country want some sort of gun control, where is that control? the majority want abortion to be available and yet that availability is continualy reduced - sometimes individuals who seek to reverse this trend are shot and killed or.... their property is destroyed.

Click to expand...

no group can pull this one off canndo because it takes you personally to tackle this gig...
and in so far as your views on other critters 'thinking' i can only guess that you havent been around many other critters, and definitely not the ones i've been around...
further, many of the issues that face us could be thought of differently with different questions asked etc and in turn would likely be responded to differently etc and in my previous example with the cannabis question, such a question fundamentally answered would inevitably have an effect on patent law and thus have an effect on the GE issue you have stated is a forgone conclusion etc...

Thought is an artifact to those who are dead already. This groundswell of defeated hearts and minds you are in fact enforcing by telling people it is so. Hoplessness is a huge part of control, separation, misinformation ripple along too and perception with it. You are doing their dirty work...showing corporate interests as you do just adds to the misery.

burgertime2010 said:

Thought is an artifact to those who are dead already. This groundswell of defeated hearts and minds you are in fact enforcing by telling people it is so. Hoplessness is a huge part of control, separation, misinformation ripple along too and perception with it. You are doing their dirty work...showing corporate interests as you do just adds to the misery.

Click to expand...

i agree, canndo has an odd way of walking the fence, but aside from that, eyes wide open is the best way to navigate these waters etc...
and with the example of the cannabis plant, one can see the fed laws as a simple bummer and sort of wash their hands etc, or someone could look at those same laws as a perfect opportunity to check and balance the corpsgovs 'authority' against our contractually protected 'human rights' at the lowest common denominator of simply growing a plant...and from my view its like lil johny belushi once said' " This could be the greatest night of our lives, but you're gonna let it be the worst."

DNAprotection said:

i agree, canndo has an odd way of walking the fence, but aside from that, eyes wide open is the best way to navigate these waters etc...
and with the example of the cannabis plant, one can see the fed laws as a simple bummer and sort of wash their hands etc, or someone could look at those same laws as a perfect opportunity to check and balance the corpsgovs 'authority' against our contractually protected 'human rights' at the lowest common denominator of simply growing a plant...and from my view its like lil johny belushi once said' " This could be the greatest night of our lives, but you're gonna let it be the worst."

Click to expand...

It is a lot more than just growing a plant, you are opening a billion dollar industry for recreation and another for medicine......the rights to compete in the free market are the ones I see threatened......major economic losses to pharma, alcohol, and criminal justice/prisons is keeping this complicated.

burgertime2010 said:

Thought is an artifact to those who are dead already. This groundswell of defeated hearts and minds you are in fact enforcing by telling people it is so. Hoplessness is a huge part of control, separation, misinformation ripple along too and perception with it. You are doing their dirty work...showing corporate interests as you do just adds to the misery.

Click to expand...

Then let us rise up. Let us begin..... with fracking. Why, fracking has no deleterious effects right? or does it? Who shall we trust? Oh, how about HFCS, it's just sugar, isn't it? Running out of oil? no, yes, maybe, there is time, no there isn't. Global warming? Cancer? obesity? heart disease? at every turn we get a multitude of opinions - one side turning to their political leaders to trust, the other turnng to movie stars and alarmists.

In order to make a change we need to all agree and we all need to agree uon where we presently are and where we should be headed. Get a general consensus and you might get enough folks to make a real difference but I saw what happened to the organic movement, the GMO movement, the peak oil movement, the anti nuclear movement and most of the others. No consensus and a ghost in the middle diverting attention and muddying the waters.

I did not know unti recently that there was no causality between smoking and lung cancer until 1996. Things are changing with cigarettes but that change is dominated by the rigid and the fearful. No enlightenment in sight.

If it seems as though I am shilling for the powers that be, it is only because I am pointing out that those powers have the control they sought. Sure, do something, opt out of the status quo, some of you have, for the most part but the time is past to put things right as never before. It will take hundreds of years to reverse what we have done, if it is possible at all.

burgertime2010 said:

It is a lot more than just growing a plant, you are opening a billion dollar industry for recreation and another for medicine......the rights to compete in the free market are the ones I see threatened......major economic losses to pharma, alcohol, and criminal justice/prisons is keeping this complicated.

Click to expand...

Pharma will lose nothing, it will consume the pot industry with more and more sophisticated adaptation, just as it did with opium and even the lowly bread mold. Alcohol will lose little, few pot smokers I have ever met refuse a drink and eventualy even they will incorporate some sort of pot concoction. the criminal justice system will be a big loser as pot is the easiest and least dangerous substance to interdict and about as lucrative as any when it comes to confiscation of assets.

Private prisons will simply have to find new ways to fill their cells but those cells will be filled. MADD will get a huge reprieve, a boost they sorely need as their original goals have all been met and unless they can take on the hospitality business and the restaraunt business, we will never get to zero blood alcohol requirements.

DARE will have a field day. Religion will find another nit to pick, who knows? the ACA may find solice in legal medical marijuana.