Galactic Alignment

Doer

Doer

Well-Known Member
Zaehet Strife said:
Why is the biggest question of all... not who, not what, not how...(but how comes second in my opinion)...but, WHY?!

What the fuck is the point? Is the way the universe is now, the only way existence could exist? Does existence exist for the mere purpose of existence itself and nothing more? Why even bother asking questions we don't know anyways... and especially why bother giving answers to questions we don't know the answers to? the latter is even more absurd.

Fun to think about, destructive to claim knowledge about.
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Yeah, I agree. It's not; why do electrons behave the way we think? It's; what are we thinking? In a very real way, there is nothing but quantum macro effects. That is, our brain only interprets various waves and pressures as the real world. Memory Storage, recall, Self, etc, all are not understood.

There is no way to know if any of this has existence beyond our Observation. In sensory depavation experiments, we see the converse. The cognition itself begins to fail without senses and the dream world takes over.
 
cannabineer

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
tyler.durden said:
^^Exactly, Pad. And like Heis always brings up, these people that you're referring to always appreciate the skeptical standards of proof when it comes to the safety and effectiveness of their mom's medication, or the structural integrity of the airplane they're riding in over the Atlantic, or the reliability of their precious internet connections. But when it comes to life's most important ontological, empistemological, and philosophical questions, we should all lower the bar... :clap:
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Midgets like draft beer, too. cn

http://blogs.phoenixnewtimes.com/bastard/2007/05/pull_up_a_stool_at_chueys_midg.php
 
PeyoteReligion

PeyoteReligion

Well-Known Member
Padawanbater2 said:
Idk, I think it depends on what civilization/time period you're talking about. Ancient Egyptians were advanced as fuck when it came to buildings and agriculture. Same with the ancient Greeks and Romans, most people are pretty familiar with their famous structures, Parthenon, Colosseum.. But nothing they built requires outside intervention. That's what bothers me about these theories, when broken down, it amounts to an argument from ignorance, "I can't explain X, therefore Y" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_ignorance

They can't explain how humans could move huge blocks on their own, so it must be something other than humans that did it. Most of the time not realizing there is no good evidence to support the 'Y' part of the argument. Why not just say "I can't explain how humans could move huge blocks on their own, so it must be monsters, interdementional invisible beings, wizards from the future, Allah, Zues, Thor, Xena Warrior Princess, and on and on and on to infinity...". Just as much evidence exists for all of those examples as does for ancient aliens or God, none.

Then the argument usually turns into what is acceptable as "evidence". And that's where most of the disagreements happen. Proponents of ancient alien theories usually have lower standards for proof than skeptics, and that turns into "you're just close minded" or "you're being too critical!" or "you only accept what you can physically measure, you're missing out on the entire other half of the story"... When in reality, we're just using consistent standards of proof across the board.
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Who told you Xena warrior princes built the pyramids!?!?! That's supposed to be top secret informations! Now it's all over the interwebs! Code red, code motherfucking red!
 
mindphuk

mindphuk

Well-Known Member
Padawanbater2 said:
Idk, I think it depends on what civilization/time period you're talking about. Ancient Egyptians were advanced as fuck when it came to buildings and agriculture.
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We also see a progression of structures from the earliest pyramids being quite modest structures and how they developed progressively over centuries of building until they were able to perfect the technique. We have documentation like the Rhind papyrus that shows their level of mathematical sophistication and it even has pyramid problems to be worked out and demonstrates they though a lot about these structures and the math. They needed nothing extraordinary beyond normal human intellect in dealing with the math and engineering in building of these structures. People that can't give the ancient people credit for their work are engaging in a form of temporal bigotry. Just because they lived thousands of years before us doesn't mean they weren't just as intelligent and creative. The only difference between them and us is the amount of accumulated knowledge. They had their Einstein's, their Leonardo's and their Buckminster Fuller's. They just didn't have the repository of human knowledge that our contemporaries have. People like CWE have to ignore all of these facts (and avoid looking for them) in order to keep believing the things he does.

Chief Walkin Eagle said:
I think people are molded to be simple, and intelligent skeptics arent excluded from this simplicity. They just have to have simple answers to big questions, so reluctant to add more unnecessary complexity to their reality.
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FTFY!
 
Chief Walkin Eagle

Chief Walkin Eagle

Well-Known Member
mindphuk said:
We also see a progression of structures from the earliest pyramids being quite modest structures and how they developed progressively over centuries of building until they were able to perfect the technique. We have documentation like the Rhind papyrus that shows their level of mathematical sophistication and it even has pyramid problems to be worked out and demonstrates they though a lot about these structures and the math. They needed nothing extraordinary beyond normal human intellect in dealing with the math and engineering in building of these structures. People that can't give the ancient people credit for their work are engaging in a form of temporal bigotry. Just because they lived thousands of years before us doesn't mean they weren't just as intelligent and creative. The only difference between them and us is the amount of accumulated knowledge. They had their Einstein's, their Leonardo's and their Buckminster Fuller's. They just didn't have the repository of human knowledge that our contemporaries have. People like CWE have to ignore all of these facts (and avoid looking for them) in order to keep believing the things he does.

FTFY!
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Shit, you're right MP, praising the ancients for their advanced knowledge is clearly discrediting them, I should have more respect. Focusing on the dozens of mysterious ancient achievements that contradict shaky theories of how they came to be is utter foolishness. I should just accept that places like Puma Punku were constructed using copper tools, chicken bones, and dental floss. I dont know why I couldnt accept that copper and chicken bones cut through solid granite to sculpt perfect angles into 100 ton stones that were then transported and raised with dental floss... How did I ignore such facts...xD
 
Doer

Doer

Well-Known Member
Yes, we really have no way to judge what people were like. But, it is less violent now, by far. There is an alturisic selection process going on, but some feel it is the information age itself. The expansion of the boundaries of the sense of Tribe.

In this 800 pages of collated data, Steven Pinker details the links with civilization, sanitaition, information, intervention, food aid, etc, to a significant decrease in violence worldwide over history, per capita. Better Angels of Our Nature

We can't think like these ancients and they didn't think like us. And I totally agree there is nothing more magical than the human will to build these pyramid. Wait, that's pretty magical. We don't need help from aliens or superior beings. And, of course, there isn't any. Let's not cut ourselves short.

It is just too, too easy to believe anything. It's in our brains, somehow. We have to face that. It is more likely that we being taken advantage of, or socially tinkered with, than to say the Holy Spirit or Self or God or whatever exists. But, taking a wider view, yes, it does exist is a very important, altruism breeding way. So, good for all.

And the facts are, religion creates civilization, which creates Law and Law creates much less violence. More helpful and less violent people are nutrtured. So, IT exists, it is working, but it is not real. But, it is us. We can't do without a faith in Diety, and it has gotten us here. So far, so good.
 
cannabineer

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
Doer said:
Yes, we really have no way to judge what people were like. But, it is less violent now, by far. There is an alturisic selection processess going on, but some feel it is the information age itself. The expansion of the boundaries of tribe.

In this 800 pages of collated data, Steven Pinker details the links with civilization, sanitaition, information, intervention, food aid, etc, to a significant decrease in violence worldwide over history, per capita. Better Angels of Our Nature

We can't think like these ancients and they didn't think like us. And I totally agree there is nothing more magical than the human will to build these pyramid. Wait, that's pretty magical. We don't need help from aliens or superior beings. And, of course, there isn't any. Let's not cut ourselves short.
It is just to easy to believe anything. We have to face that. It is more likely that we being taken advantage of, or socially tinkered with, than to say the Holy Spirit or Self or God or whatever exists. Yet it does exist is a very important, altruism breeding way.

And the facts are, religion creates civilization, which create Law and Law creates much less violence. More helpful and less violent people are nurtured. So, it exists, it is working, but it is not real. We can't do without a faith in Diety, and it has gotten us here. So far so good.
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I don't agree with the bolded. I suspect that for the last at least thirty millennia, humans have enjoyed a plateau of smarts and social qualities. Applying Occam's razor, assuming the ancients had our sort of mind ... works. cn
 
Doer

Doer

Well-Known Member
Well, yes, until you put a cell phone in our hands is the point of that argument. This deep Haaaavard psycho-babble is that this jump in imformation is actually opening up new parts of the brain and thus a general leap in world wide intelligence. And indeed we see a steady rise in IQ scores.

Today as an entire world, we have a totally different concept of Space and Time, for example.

We have a knowledge of 10 orders of magnitude in either macro or micro scale. I will grant that all the emotions, and all the traits and deciets of man were there. But, they could not think in this wide view I've briefly laid out, at all.

We didn't need aliens to stack rocks. We can do that. Our forefathers' worshiped many Gods without question. Now we are just realizing we are a big global tribe of practically Twins. We are just coming out of racial and tribal thinking. Most of the world is still there.

The cell phone camera is mighter that the pen.
 
mindphuk

mindphuk

Well-Known Member
Chief Walkin Eagle said:
Shit, you're right MP, praising the ancients for their advanced knowledge is clearly discrediting them, I should have more respect. Focusing on the dozens of mysterious ancient achievements that contradict shaky theories of how they came to be is utter foolishness. I should just accept that places like Puma Punku were constructed using copper tools, chicken bones, and dental floss. I dont know why I couldnt accept that copper and chicken bones cut through solid granite to sculpt perfect angles into 100 ton stones that were then transported and raised with dental floss... How did I ignore such facts...xD
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Considering you are pretty unclear as to what you believe is the actual truth, you imply quite a lot. You say they weren't helped by aliens but you don't dismiss 'special' knowledge and/or tools from some source, whether an ancient race or aliens, you are proposing a deus ex machina which by extension does not give full credit to our ancient ancestors as the mere humans that they were. Strawmen about how they accomplished their feats of engineering aside, you are discrediting their very normal human intelligence and creativity. You have ignored or ridiculed all modern day explanations of how they accomplished these tasks which includes ubiquitous human ingenuity, well made bronze age tools and architectural instruments, and good old trial and error. Although well crafted, perfect is somewhat of a hyperbole. As pointed out, even the Kufu's Pyramid doesn't even have a base with sides of equal lengths, one of the easiest of the measurement to accomplish.

This response of yours has become so typical. When answers are given to some of your 'mysteries', instead of acknowledging and even discussing it, you ridicule the post and attempt to shift the discussion. Do you ever wonder why so many people here dislike you? It's not your beliefs, a lot of people here with different beliefs get along quite well but you don't discuss things, you antagonize and attack your interlocutor with ad hominem and name-calling. You turn anyone that doesn't accept your fringe ideas into an adversary. You attempt to discredit critical thinking and the methodology and results by real scientists that investigate and attempt to solve ancient mysteries. You believe certain people with fringe ideas are on to something, not because they have solid evidence but because you like the implications, the story, as it fits with your worldview. You are no different than the young earth creationist that has a dogmatic attachment to the bible, you're just dogmatic about something different but the rigid adherence in spite of evidence to the contrary is the same.
 
Trolling

Trolling

New Member
tyler.durden said:
Sounds like a bunch of woo to me. Many cultures and religions have predicted the end of the world for thousands of years, what would make this outlook different? Afaik, there is absolutely no rational reason or empirical evidence that would lend this idea credibility. The amusing thing is that when these predictions prove to be false, the believers have more faith than they did before. WTF?! I love the idea that we would become enlightened better than I like the idea of the apocolypse, but what would be the reasons to believe either?
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It may not happen this year but scientist have stated that this does happens every couple of hundred thousand of years and say we are overdue for one.
 
Trolling

Trolling

New Member
/sigh, I really need to start double checking, I could of sworn Nova said this but when I looked it up for a link the Nasa website said that it doesn't happen and even if it does, not much if nothing bad will happen if it did occur, fail =/.
 
tyler.durden

tyler.durden

Well-Known Member
Trolling said:
/sigh, I really need to start double checking, I could of sworn Nova said this but when I looked it up for a link the Nasa website said that it doesn't happen and even if it does, not much if nothing bad will happen if it did occur, fail =/.
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I think you may have galactic alignment confused with the Earth's magnetic poles reversing. Nova's 'Magnetic Storm' was fascinating. The shift is coming (probably not in our lifetime), and it could be quite a challenging time for us when it does happen.The upside is that, during the shift, you'll be able to see the Aurora Borealis all over the Earth each night! Check it:

[video=youtube;kY2MrQKiIoM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kY2MrQKiIoM[/video]
 
Hepheastus420

Hepheastus420

Well-Known Member
Trolling said:
I can't view vids right now, phone data, but it does sound correct. Just a FYI, I'm an extreme slow learner lol.
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My rep comment fucked up lol.. I was gonna say at least you have the guts to admit it.


No matter what beliefs one has, as long as they are attempting to learn, they're doing good in my book.. Well with certain exceptions of course..
 
Hepheastus420

Hepheastus420

Well-Known Member
Trolling said:
I don't mind being wrong at all, I love to learn to new stuff (if I can).
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You sound like me.. Or do I sound like you? Either way, I like your view. It's pretty cool to realize how much of a dumbass I am since it leaves alot of room for knowledge and improvement.
 
Doer

Doer

Well-Known Member
I'll get some more info on modern IQ linked to tech, etc. But, more about primitive tech.

Taking blocks using annealed copper, leather rope, glue and sand, it is the same tecnique that is used today in quarries.

There is so much experimentation that has been done. In the instant info age, anyone can see that building with stone blocks, even the ulta-complicated Parthenon is not even that difficult. To assume the ancients had special knowledge is more than praise, right? It's worship. Much has changed in our lifetimes. It is not that difficult to keep informed. We can't cling to what we learned as kids. I was taught how to build little tower of matchsticks. I was taught that the material at Stonehenge was too heavy for MAN. Poppycock. They found the remnants of log sized construction techniques.

And in that case not so much religious as practical, astronomical motivation. A crop calendar.

Temporal envy for the ancients? We can't be Now? I was a big worshiper of the Future. Same thing.
 
Chief Walkin Eagle

Chief Walkin Eagle

Well-Known Member
mindphuk said:
Considering you are pretty unclear as to what you believe is the actual truth, you imply quite a lot. You say they weren't helped by aliens but you don't dismiss 'special' knowledge and/or tools from some source, whether an ancient race or aliens, you are proposing a deus ex machina which by extension does not give full credit to our ancient ancestors as the mere humans that they were. Strawmen about how they accomplished their feats of engineering aside, you are discrediting their very normal human intelligence and creativity. You have ignored or ridiculed all modern day explanations of how they accomplished these tasks which includes ubiquitous human ingenuity, well made bronze age tools and architectural instruments, and good old trial and error. Although well crafted, perfect is somewhat of a hyperbole. As pointed out, even the Kufu's Pyramid doesn't even have a base with sides of equal lengths, one of the easiest of the measurement to accomplish.

This response of yours has become so typical. When answers are given to some of your 'mysteries', instead of acknowledging and even discussing it, you ridicule the post and attempt to shift the discussion. Do you ever wonder why so many people here dislike you? It's not your beliefs, a lot of people here with different beliefs get along quite well but you don't discuss things, you antagonize and attack your interlocutor with ad hominem and name-calling. You turn anyone that doesn't accept your fringe ideas into an adversary. You attempt to discredit critical thinking and the methodology and results by real scientists that investigate and attempt to solve ancient mysteries. You believe certain people with fringe ideas are on to something, not because they have solid evidence but because you like the implications, the story, as it fits with your worldview. You are no different than the young earth creationist that has a dogmatic attachment to the bible, you're just dogmatic about something different but the rigid adherence in spite of evidence to the contrary is the same.
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Really man? None of that raises any eyebrows for you? You accept that Puma Punku was constructed using copper tools, chicken bones, and dental floss? You have nothing to question about that? Because that is the accepted theory of how Puma Punku came to be. Its called sticking to my guns man. You call me dogmatic yet I never once heard "Yeah, thats a possibility" from you, because you think anything else besides the accepted norm is ridiculous, just like I think the accepted theories are ridiculous. You're not going to accept any of the information and sources I provide as credible because you are so convinced these lazy scientists and archaeologists have it right. Are Graham Hancock, John Anthony West, and Terrence McKenna not as equally credible as who ever you know of? They believe and provide evidence for these theories, are they ignorant and dogmatic? Dont try and say that they accept that they could be wrong either, they are convinced, stuff like 1200 ton stones being constructed with soft metals, transported with logs and raised with ropes doesnt sit well with them, and rightfully so.
 
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