Gavita vs HPS Warehouse Grow

TheFuture · Nov 13, 2015

Haha of course. I didnt mean a ceiling full of fluoros could do the same as HPS. I'm saying at this point a $500 1000w gavita is no better really than a $189 1000w generic ballast. If you put a bulb in it with a certain spectrum and you give it 1000w its not going to give you any better quantifiable results in your plants. The savings in the cost of the fixtures alone outweighs any amount of gains from the gimmicky fixture.

Cobnobuler · Nov 13, 2015

vostok said:
I'd be leaping for the Gavita, every time, they are the Cadillac of lights

the list of pros is just too long

Vos, you like the Gavita over the Nanolux version ? If so, why ?
I'm thinking of upgrading my lights to one of these guys. That is if I can get away with 5 feet of height, and if I can get 4 ( Maybe 5 ) plants into that footprint.
@vostok @Dr. Who

vostok · Nov 13, 2015

Cobnobuler said:
Vos, you like the Gavita over the Nanolux version ? If so, why ?
I'm thinking of upgrading my lights to one of these guys. That is if I can get away with 5 feet of height, and if I can get 4 ( Maybe 5 ) plants into that footprint.

the number one reason for bleeding so much cash ..for me..

has to be the shadow-less bulb, its double ended

I've been wondering for years if the metal rods

in HIDs bulbs interferes with the light expended ...

I swear it does tho not by much

these bulbs a free of this hassle

tho I can well imagine many light makers are doing the same

once either the patent expires or just plain copy theft it..?

there are cons tho ...for me..!

you are expected to replace the inner reflector once per year

avoid cleaning as its so brittle, a buddy is working on a way round it now

an hps at 1000w gives a very big foot print maybe 2x4 yards/meters

this is not closet even small tent toy

you need room!

good luck

hantastic1 · Nov 13, 2015

slump said:
There's a commercial grower on YouTube - medicropper who just recently fired up a 50k gavita warehouse. He's having issues, as most new facilities do, but he also has a lot of insight on running an operation that large. He's pulled well over 3lb per lights with some strains. Personally I think DE are going to be the standard before too long. Longer bulb life, higher sustained output, etc. etc.

https://www.youtube.com/user/medicropper

Grow Safe!

if you watch medicropper and copy his ideas, you will fail for sure, he is a fraud ass mofo

Cl@rksville · Nov 14, 2015

mr sunshine said:
50 gavitas.

I second that 100%.

Gavita is worth the extra investment and maintenance costs any day of the week, anyone who says not just hasn't used them, its that simple.

1 Gav versus a very good 1200w AC Magnum MH/HPS also wins hands down I know from experience, don't hesitate in buying Gavs I have used all lamps at some point and 4 Gavs £1200 does DWC 24 pots in a 3.5m x 4.4m room to its full potential twice before any maintenance requirements.

Just a single light experiment after 4 weeks in veg proved to me that plant growth is much healthier, faster and generally thicker stems. The next 9 weeks of flowering made me look at throwing all my old lamps in a bin!!!

MrStickyScissors · Nov 14, 2015

Or just to it hood like me. Just blow up 3 or 4 houses and call it a day

Cobnobuler · Nov 14, 2015

Thanks Vos,
Thankfully I don't grow in closets but I do have heat concerns
One of the features of the Nanolux is it uses ceramic connectors as opposed to Gavitas plastic that I understand is prone to melting.
What is unclear to me is if they have the same short-lived reflectors but they have an easy release button to remove it so it may have that same issue.
They also claim a 5 ft x 5 ft footprint which would be great but maybe a little over ambitious.

chuck estevez · Nov 14, 2015

Cobnobuler said:
Thanks Vos,
Thankfully I don't grow in closets but I do have heat concerns
One of the features of the Nanolux is it uses ceramic connectors as opposed to Gavitas plastic that I understand is prone to melting.
What is unclear to me is if they have the same short-lived reflectors but they have an easy release button to remove it so it may have that same issue.
They also claim a 5 ft x 5 ft footprint which would be great but maybe a little over ambitious.

watch this video and you'll understand why gavita recommends replacing the $50 reflector once a year.

Dr. Who · Nov 14, 2015

Cobnobuler said:
Vos, you like the Gavita over the Nanolux version ? If so, why ?
I'm thinking of upgrading my lights to one of these guys. That is if I can get away with 5 feet of height, and if I can get 4 ( Maybe 5 ) plants into that footprint.
@vostok @Dr. Who

Nice stuff they are.....High LUX #'s and good spectral spread...
Kinda hot though, especially for small area's where heat can be troublesome! I have several co-op guys that have them....They all complain about having to use more (or turn up) cooling......
If you do it,,,,I might lean towards the NANO....

I would love to say "look at the CDM lighting but, I have a problem with their small foot print of 3x3...

If your running 1K now. I'm not exactly sure why you want to change?
If it's spectral. Try one of the new dual arc bulbs that have a 600w HPS and a deep blue 400w MH in the same bulb - EYE Hort started this and now there are several brands out there available..They use a deep blue MH for more effective UV banding.
EYE Hort = $157.00 each is the lowest I've found on that (They call it the "super blue")
Plantmax = $48.14 at 1kbulbs
Ultra Sun = $79.49 at 1kbulbs

There are several others out there ranging about the same as the Ultra sun and up..

With a sunlight supply Blockbuster 6 (or 8 )hood. You would do a 5x5 area perfectly....I mean if you want to cover a square area, use a square hood.....

Doc

Cobnobuler · Nov 14, 2015

.....After a little further research this may not fit my need. They're saying that with either the Nano or the Gavita one better have at least 9 ft ceiling height or risk making a pile of burnt leaves.I'm not there at all. Mines only 6 feet tops. I'm currently only running 2 400's on magnetic ballasts. Thats all I've ever used.

chuck estevez · Nov 14, 2015

Cobnobuler said:
.....After a little further research this may not fit my need. They're saying that with either the Nano or the Gavita one better have at least 9 ft ceiling height or risk making a pile of burnt leaves.I'm not there at all. Mines only 6 feet tops. I'm currently only running 2 400's on magnetic ballasts. Thats all I've ever used.

nano has a new 600 hps and 600 MH DE in one unit coming out. Maybe check it out.

https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.ne...=f1bde6c6776638dc4914e64987978dc2&oe=56F8CE45

ttystikk · Nov 14, 2015

TheFuture said:
Im so annoyed by all the hype about Gavitas. Lights are lights. Fluorescents can only do so much, HPS/MH can only do so much. If you want better results, become a better grower. Constantly do research. Know your plants. Push the limits and experiment continually. Spend $189 per commercial HPS greenhouse fixture and grow your crop. Worry about bells and whistles when you have money to fling around and not pay your employees.

Lol. Amateur.

ttystikk · Nov 14, 2015

Cobnobuler said:
.....After a little further research this may not fit my need. They're saying that with either the Nano or the Gavita one better have at least 9 ft ceiling height or risk making a pile of burnt leaves.I'm not there at all. Mines only 6 feet tops. I'm currently only running 2 400's on magnetic ballasts. Thats all I've ever used.

Brute force doesn't solve as many problems as it might first appear. Just ask the dude with the hammer... what was his name? 'John Henry'?

ttystikk · Nov 14, 2015

DE is already being superseded in commercial greenhouses, by CDM. Similar efficiency, MUCH better spectrum, no hotspots...

You just need three for every thouie you're replacing, four if they're DE.

Dr. Who · Nov 14, 2015

Cobnobuler said:
.....After a little further research this may not fit my need. They're saying that with either the Nano or the Gavita one better have at least 9 ft ceiling height or risk making a pile of burnt leaves.I'm not there at all. Mines only 6 feet tops. I'm currently only running 2 400's on magnetic ballasts. Thats all I've ever used.

I would say that 600's in normal HID would be the viable up grade and should be all you would need!

ttystikk · Nov 14, 2015

Dr. Who said:
I would say that 600's in normal HID would be the viable up grade and should be all you would need!

There years ago, I'd have agreed without reservation. Now, I think there are better options than HPS. CDM is one of them.

Five years from now, however, if some fool suggests lighting a warehouse with DE or any other form of HPS, he's going to get laughed off the design team. COB LED lighting is here, it works and it's getting less expensive literally every month.

The best dressed warehouses wouldn't think of wearing anything less.

Dr. Who · Nov 14, 2015

ttystikk said:
There years ago, I'd have agreed without reservation. Now, I think there are better options than HPS. CDM is one of them.

Five years from now, however, if some fool suggests lighting a warehouse with DE or any other form of HPS, he's going to get laughed off the design team. COB LED lighting is here, it works and it's getting less expensive literally every month.

The best dressed warehouses wouldn't think of wearing anything less.

Oh, I agree.
The problem being with CDM is the low foot print vs high cost in comparison.
CDM knocks the ball out of the park! Yet for over $500 a unit and a 3x3 footprint.....HID in the form of HPS and MH will be around for a long time yet.....Especially for the home grower with limits on spending!
LED tech is moving so damn fast that what you bought last month is obsolete in 6 months! Our little female friend from China is running COB's and other then her overfeeding at a point,,,,,,She finished some damn nice plants with those COB's. THAT caught my eye! But my question is - "What is the penetration on those COB LED's?" I like 4-5'+ ft tall plants......Could be great for SOG/SCROG and I really don't have much problem with that but, I want plant counts for breeding projects...

So, in a nutshell. Knowing Cobnobuler as I do......I think the 600's would be a really good choice....

BUT, @Cobnobuler ,,,,IF you can swing the CDM cost to fit your area? I WOULD go for that first!!! NO doubt about it!

Doc

ttystikk · Nov 14, 2015

@Dr. Who ;

315W CMH lamps are a lot less than $500 apiece, especially if you're buying in bulk for a warehouse. I paid $200 a kit for bare bulb n ballast myself!

Hate to say it, but there are warehouse grows right here on RIU running nothing but 315W CMH lights.

No self respecting commercial grower will have anything to do with MH- that tech is shit and has been completely eclipsed by CDM/CMH technology.

Dunno about your female friend in China, but lots of people over in the LED section are proving that COBs grow great cannabis. Tech is always moving, that's no excuse to wait unless you feel there is something a lot better right around the corner... which is how I felt about blurple LED. Now that COB LED lighting is here, THAT wait is over.

The only way to get good results with five foot tall pot plants indoors is to light them from the side. Even DE won't do it very well.

COB LED can be placed anywhere near the plant, if it's run softly enough it can be all but touching. It's directional, so efficiency robbing reflectors are unnecessary. Lenses and dimming can help customize the light for your growing style. In other words, it will allow the grower to adjust the lighting to his growing style, instead of forcing the grower to conform to its limitations.

Sorry man, I'm just not buying your assertion that DE is the only logical choice for commercial grows.

Cobnobuler · Nov 14, 2015

Thanks guys, I appreciate this input. Originally, I was looking at just that, replacing my 400's with a pair of 600's and that alone would have been a significant upgrade. But then I started looking at some of this stuff thinking I could get away with just one light, and keep it turned down unless I really wanted the extra power but, the more I look at this I guess theres no sense having power higher than I could use in the height I have. That 6 ft of height isnt ever going to change unless I cut a hole in the floor

I'm in a little better financial position these days but still the CDM might be out of reach for me, especially looking at replacing 2 units.
I know thats nothing to some of the big houses but for me, its a lot
Thanks again ya'all

ttystikk · Nov 14, 2015

Cobnobuler said:
Thanks guys, I appreciate this input. Originally, I was looking at just that, replacing my 400's with a pair of 600's and that alone would have been a significant upgrade. But then I started looking at some of this stuff thinking I could get away with just one light, and keep it turned down unless I really wanted the extra power but, the more I look at this I guess theres no sense having power higher than I could use in the height I have. That 6 ft of height isnt ever going to change unless I cut a hole in the floor
I'm in a little better financial position these days but still the CDM might be out of reach for me, especially looking at replacing 2 units.
I know thats nothing to some of the big houses but for me, its a lot
Thanks again ya'all

Call this guy and ask about his bare bulb and Philips ballast 315W kits;

http://advancedtechlighting.com/cdmmw.htm

He'll save you some serious coin over what your hydro store quoted you, and you might be able to use your existing reflector.

Gavita vs HPS Warehouse Grow

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