Greasemonkey's Compost Pile

ShLUbY said:

i'll pick some up and layer it in the totes when i'm transferring it to be taken indoors.

the pile was mainly leaves and grass clippings, i added about a cuft of practically finished compost from my tumbler, a bunch of amendments in several additions (neem, alfalfa, kelp, OSF, rock dusts, fishbone meal, gypsum, DE) pretty much everything i'm amending my soil with. i think i'm just gonna make it moist and let it keep rocking, i dont think i want to add anything to it now that it's almost there. maybe i'll split it and add some alfalfa to half and just to see the difference. i had a few seeds sprouting in it the other day so i think that it's pretty close to ready enough.

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you'd be alright to leave it alone i'd say.
but if seeds are sprouting, your thermophilic time wasn't hot enough to sterilize those. Not that it's crucial.

greasemonkeymann said:

you'd be alright to leave it alone i'd say.
but if seeds are sprouting, your thermophilic time wasn't hot enough to sterilize those. Not that it's crucial.

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i only found like 2 and they could have been helicopters from the maples that got mixed in after the thermophilic part. outside contamination of seed IMO. i hit almost 150deg. in the thermo part... pretty damn hot!

ShLUbY said:

i only found like 2 and they could have been helicopters from the maples that got mixed in after the thermophilic part. outside contamination of seed IMO. i hit almost 150deg. in the thermo part... pretty damn hot!

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150 is good man.. probably stragglers

greasemonkeymann said:

150 is good man.. probably stragglers

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I have close to 2 acres that are undeveloped and pretty much trees. I have been raking leaves and I noticed that there is a layer of compost under the leaves... You said that I am not using enough humus, could I use this as a topdressing maybe? We had snow recently, so there should not be many bugs right now.

MustangStudFarm said:

I have close to 2 acres that are undeveloped and pretty much trees. I have been raking leaves and I noticed that there is a layer of compost under the leaves... You said that I am not using enough humus, could I use this as a topdressing maybe? We had snow recently, so there should not be many bugs right now.

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absolutely you could, it's essentially pure leaf-mold i'd imagine.
Only issue would be possible bugs..
but being cold outside I would speculate there isn't many, but it's a concern.
The thing with humus is that it's not a nutrient, so i'm not sure the advantage of using it solely as a topdress.
I think it has to mixed with the entire soil to be useful.
good fresh humus is KEY... the most important addition to the soil in my opinion

I've acquired 50+ large leaf bags full of mostly maple leaves. Should I just empty them out of the bags into a large pile or try and layer some alfalfa meal in with it? I've got 100 pounds of meal and could get more and some other stuff if needed. I'm just thinking mold with the dry leaves instead of compost. Id appreciate your input grease.

greasemonkeymann said:

absolutely you could, it's essentially pure leaf-mold i'd imagine.
Only issue would be possible bugs..
but being cold outside I would speculate there isn't many, but it's a concern.
The thing with humus is that it's not a nutrient, so i'm not sure the advantage of using it solely as a topdress.
I think it has to mixed with the entire soil to be useful.
good fresh humus is KEY... the most important addition to the soil in my opinion

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I believe that it is the part that I am missing!!! Thanks for pointing it out to me earlier!

MustangStudFarm said:

I believe that it is the part that I am missing!!! Thanks for pointing it out to me earlier!

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absolutely, in fact I had grown for nearly 20 yrs before I realized how essential humus is, inn fact we, as humans, don't even really understand the exact role it plays in botany and horticulture, we know it's crucial, but as to exactly why is still somewhat of a mystery... I find that odd, considering the depths of human knowledge on otherwise, um, less important subjects..

Smidge34 said:

I've acquired 50+ large leaf bags full of mostly maple leaves. Should I just empty them out of the bags into a large pile or try and layer some alfalfa meal in with it? I've got 100 pounds of meal and could get more and some other stuff if needed. I'm just thinking mold with the dry leaves instead of compost. Id appreciate your input grease.

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it depends on your level of patience, a true leaf mold is pure humus, and is pure leaves, BUT takes like 2-4 yrs to break down.
In my eyes, and in my past experiences, I add layers of nitrogen between all the leaves, and alfalfa is a favorite, as well as cannabis leaves, I mean after all, cannabis is designed to be an annual that survives on the prior yrs degraded plant matter in nature. The same way that an apple tree must have it's prior yrs rotting apples to replenish itself..
It's all leaves anyways, just not the brown (carbon) input that tree leaves are, anything green typically is a "nitrogen" input, or a "green", depending on the lingo used.

Side note, I turned my pile for the first time on Saturday, and the heat of this thing was insane, it was steaming about three feet off the pile.

Long answer to your question, personally i'd layer in alfalfa, and maybe fish meal to accelerate the breakdown.
Maple leaves are a good one though, they breakdown fast.
I really like at least one layer of rock minerals of some kind too.

If there is an advantage of using pure leaf mold over a composted amended leaf compost, i'm not aware of it.
And that's said with all humility too, not arrogantly, I really don't know if there is some other advantage that leaf mold has over a compost.
But if it isn't broke, don't fix it, and I get the best results of my entire life using leaf-compost, in fact it's not even close

Thank you for such a thorough response, I appreciate your time! I'll layer it with alfalfa meal and other amendments then. Gonna be a big ass pile for sure.

On a sidenote, I'm having a hell of a time sourcing local rock dust. I can get greensand in very small bags, but I've always read it takes a few years to be available or something like that. I hate ordering amendments online and having them trucked in from God only knows where.

Smidge34 said:

Thank you for such a thorough response, I appreciate your time! I'll layer it with alfalfa meal and other amendments then. Gonna be a big ass pile for sure.

On a sidenote, I'm having a hell of a time sourcing local rock dust. I can get greensand in very small bags, but I've always read it takes a few years to be available or something like that. I hate ordering amendments online and having them trucked in from God only knows where.

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greensand is great to use, especially in a reuasable mix, but it doesn't do anything for at least a yr, and then it's super slow release.
What you want is granite dust, soft rock phosphates, basalt, gypsum, or azomite, but I prefer no azomite in the compost pile, due to the extreme ph shifts and abundance of fulvic and humic acids, both of which can make the aluminum available to the plant.
In theory that is..
If you have any local granite cutters, or counter top makers you can get their dust.
keep in mind 5% of granite has radioactive minerals in it.
that's one out of 20 pieces, and if you consider that dust is comprised of much more than 20 pieces of granite slabs, and it's safe to say you have a nice lil amount of radiation...
Scary shit..

Smidge34 said:

Thank you for such a thorough response, I appreciate your time! I'll layer it with alfalfa meal and other amendments then. Gonna be a big ass pile for sure.

On a sidenote, I'm having a hell of a time sourcing local rock dust. I can get greensand in very small bags, but I've always read it takes a few years to be available or something like that. I hate ordering amendments online and having them trucked in from God only knows where.

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You could buy a slab of sheetrock and pulverize it for the gypsum?
that'd work

All the monument cutters around here recycle their dust and I mean all of them. I've been on the local search for over a year now. Of course, I can and do buy bags of soft rock phosphate, just wish I could get my hands on some granite dust.

greasemonkeymann said:

You could buy a slab of sheetrock and pulverize it for the gypsum?
that'd work

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My local Southern States has bags of gypsum for sale. I had no idea that was considered a rock dust. I was thinking it was a like a buffer or ph adjuster similar to lime.

Smidge34 said:

My local Southern States has bags of gypsum for sale. I had no idea that was considered a rock dust. I was thinking it was a like a buffer or ph adjuster similar to lime.

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it is, sorta both.
I wouldn't use it as the SOLE mineral, in a perfect world, but it'd probably work alright, can't say I've used it for just that though.
here is a good page for info on it.
keep in mind it doesn't have much phosphorus like rock phosphates do
But for calcium and sulfur it rules
http://www.usagypsum.com/agricultural-gypsum.aspx

can you source langbeinite? That's a kickass mineral too

Smidge34 said:

All the monument cutters around here recycle their dust and I mean all of them. I've been on the local search for over a year now. Of course, I can and do buy bags of soft rock phosphate, just wish I could get my hands on some granite dust.

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Ah dam, they recycle!?
I've been (lightly) looking into the issue of sourcing locally.
The very first thing I thought ridiculous was me buying bags of rock dust from who knows where whilst I live surrounded by mountains It's limestone and dolomite here, I was looking at quarries and trying to determine where, geologically speaking, we have which kind of rock (as most of them don't say, the rock material here is sourced mainly for construction)... whilst not wholly understanding the different effects in horticulture yet either lol
And also thinking of hitting up stonemasons...

greasemonkeymann said:

I went leaves,
cannabis trim,
leaves,
fishmeal &fishbone meal,
leaves,
kelp meal and alfalfa meal,
leaves,
ground eggshells &comfrey leaves,
leaves,
doghair (lots) &shrimp & crab meal
leaves,
greensand/ kelp meal/ oyster flour
leaves
rock phosphates (lightly, already amended with minerals@initial soil mix) and a nice thick layer of neem meal.
Then leaves.
Presto, then cover with a tarp.

--note-- I didn't water anything down because it was fuckin raining on me the whole damn time.

You want the leaves wet, and the pile "moist" not dripping.
then cover and it'll steam up in about two or three days.

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It just seems too confusing at first. I know that after a couple of times of doing it, it wont be so hard! Are these all individual ingredients?

MustangStudFarm said:

It just seems too confusing at first. I know that after a couple of times of doing it, it wont be so hard! Are these all individual ingredients?

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yup.
it's not hard man.
layer of leaves, then a nutrient, then repeat.
do that, and after it's all mixed it sits for like 10 days, tarped.
it'll steam, then when it steams, you turn the pile, and tarp again for ten days.
repeat that all winter, and into spring, and it's perfect by like april or may
Maybe june for you if its cold

greasemonkeymann said:

yup.
it's not hard man.
layer of leaves, then a nutrient, then repeat.
do that, and after it's all mixed it sits for like 10 days, tarped.
it'll steam, then when it steams, you turn the pile, and tarp again for ten days.
repeat that all winter, and into spring, and it's perfect by like april or may
Maybe june for you if its cold

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I am trying to locate some fish meal/bone meal and it is pretty hard to find for me. The "Organic" store only has crab meal, so I am left to look online.
How many pounds did you use on your compost? Should I look at 25lbs for each ammendment? It is more expensive than I thought. $130 for 40lbs of Fish Meal

MustangStudFarm said:

I am trying to locate some fish meal/bone meal and it is pretty hard to find for me. The "Organic" store only has crab meal, so I am left to look online.
How many pounds did you use on your compost? Should I look at 25lbs for each ammendment? It is more expensive than I thought. $130 for 40lbs of Fish Meal

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nah man for my entire pile I used only about 2 or maybe 3 lbs, of each depending on the nutrient, for example shrimp meal is fluffy and doesn't weigh much (reminds me of sawdust)
but fish bone meal is dense
just a sprinkling, a thin sprinkling of each nutrient, and then a layer of leaves, then repeat until you have all your nutrients in there, making sure to LIGHTLY spray water on each layer as you go, not enough to move the nutrients, but just enough to make them damp, to accelerate the whole compost process.
you don't HAVE to have fish meal or fish bone meal. It's just what I like.
Give me a list of whats available to you and we'll see if we can improvise.