Greasemonkey's Compost Pile

greasemonkeymann

Well-Known Member
I missed that it has feather meal! It would be cool to source everything naturally. There is a local chicken processor that is about to open next month, and I asked him what he does with his feathers. He said that he uses a tumbler to strip the feathers, and the chicken usually comes from homeowners. He has a 50 minimum to fill an order and he does not have any plans for the feathers!!! It could be a potential small time business making feather meal, amendments are hard to source around here!

Also, I have a couple of friends that go fishing often. One is supposed to bring about 8 fish over, I might start a separate compost pile for the fish!!! It seemed to be the most expensive amendment anyways, fish. Is there any real problem composting fish other than the smell?
well, critters LOVE iT but ther than that I don't know of any.
what I did, first I threw it in whole, bad idea, takes too long.
Get a cutting board, and a good cleaver, and chop it ALL up into pieces, small pieces, and then I rolled mine in alfalfa meal to "dry" it, came out like a fish/alfalfa meal. You could use anything, even just peat would be fine, all you are doing is dryin it a bit
i'd get that feather meal too, cut it all up into tiny pieces also
 

MustangStudFarm

Well-Known Member
well, critters LOVE iT but ther than that I don't know of any.
what I did, first I threw it in whole, bad idea, takes too long.
Get a cutting board, and a good cleaver, and chop it ALL up into pieces, small pieces, and then I rolled mine in alfalfa meal to "dry" it, came out like a fish/alfalfa meal. You could use anything, even just peat would be fine, all you are doing is dryin it a bit
i'd get that feather meal too, cut it all up into tiny pieces also
I dont mean to be all over the place man, I will have it figured out soon enough. I have my compost started, so I will have time to learn a few things until the next pile!
I went to the library and got a few books. I am on chapter 2 of Teaming with Microbes. How many people talk about the book and how many have actually read it?

I was into Cubensis for a while, so the fungi part makes sense to me. I have read more about mushrooms than living soil so far! They are decomposers of either grass or wood
 

greasemonkeymann

Well-Known Member
I dont mean to be all over the place man, I will have it figured out soon enough. I have my compost started, so I will have time to learn a few things until the next pile!
I went to the library and got a few books. I am on chapter 2 of Teaming with Microbes. How many people talk about the book and how many have actually read it?

I was into Cubensis for a while, so the fungi part makes sense to me. I have read more about mushrooms than living soil so far! They are decomposers of either grass or wood
I love collecting mushrooms after a rain to throw in my pile too, they dissolve in like a day
I have ZERO clue if they bring anything at all to the compost, but I figure why not?
And don't sweat it man, whatever advice I have for you is all yours
 

DonTesla

Well-Known Member
I dont mean to be all over the place man, I will have it figured out soon enough. I have my compost started, so I will have time to learn a few things until the next pile!
I went to the library and got a few books. I am on chapter 2 of Teaming with Microbes. How many people talk about the book and how many have actually read it?

I was into Cubensis for a while, so the fungi part makes sense to me. I have read more about mushrooms than living soil so far! They are decomposers of either grass or wood
Not just grass and wood, but mycelium can essentially eat bones and rocks too! And break those minerals down into properly charged, readily absorbed, micro-ionized particles with relative ease and transport them and water from very far..
Thru just single celled-wide, interconnected cytoplasmic sacs..
Pretty amazing.
Kinda Like giant, narrow, long skinny trains in soil but only one person per 'traincar, and if you wanna pass materials, its np, whole thing connected front to back, but you have to run it down to them at the other end cause the hallways are too skinny..

Bacteria are more like mini rabbits, they fuck like crazy, multiply a shit tonne, keep everyone happy, stay in one spot getting busy they whole life, eat, shit, fucking, etc, then they expire, but when they do, they're enjoyed again, lol...
unless you dont eat meat or wear fur, lol.. Sorry to offend any vegetarians, produce is the best, tho
 

MustangStudFarm

Well-Known Member
Not just grass and wood, but mycelium can essentially eat bones and rocks too! And break those minerals down into properly charged, readily absorbed, micro-ionized particles with relative ease and transport them and water from very far..
Thru just single celled-wide, interconnected cytoplasmic sacs..
Pretty amazing.
Kinda Like giant, narrow, long skinny trains in soil but only one person per 'traincar, and if you wanna pass materials, its np, whole thing connected front to back, but you have to run it down to them at the other end cause the hallways are too skinny..

Bacteria are more like mini rabbits, they fuck like crazy, multiply a shit tonne, keep everyone happy, stay in one spot getting busy they whole life, eat, shit, fucking, etc, then they expire, but when they do, they're enjoyed again, lol...
unless you dont eat meat or wear fur, lol.. Sorry to offend any vegetarians, produce is the best, tho
I have been reading Teaming with Microbes and it explains a little about the difference between a bacteria and fungi dominated soil. Fungi does not like to be tilled or turned. I am still in the beginning of the book lol.
I am confused, I thought that we were after a bacteria soil? Can you have both?
 

greasemonkeymann

Well-Known Member
I have been reading Teaming with Microbes and it explains a little about the difference between a bacteria and fungi dominated soil. Fungi does not like to be tilled or turned. I am still in the beginning of the book lol.
I am confused, I thought that we were after a bacteria soil? Can you have both?
oh yes, absolutely you'll have both. You want both.
Fungi are crucial to your phosphorus uptake, they are the ones breaking the phosphorus down into useable nutrients, rock phosphates, bone meals, etc.
you mentioned probiotics in another thread, ironic that you did, that's the very analogy I use to explain it.
people CANNOT digest their food if their stomach didn't have probiotic bacteria, in fact to this day people still get fecal transplants after intense antibiotic regimens.
Sorta gross... a shit transplant...
Point is, that's EXACTLY the same role that microbes serve for plants.
Plants don't have teeth, it's not like they munch on fish bone meal...
 
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MustangStudFarm

Well-Known Member
oh yes, absolutely you'll have both. You want both.
Fungi are crucial to your phosphorus uptake, they are the ones breaking the phosphorus down into useable nutrients, rock phosphates, bone meals, etc.
you mentioned probiotics in another thread, ironic that you did, that's the very analogy I sue to explain it.
people CANNOT digest their food if their stomach didn't have probiotic bacteria, in fact to this day people still get fecal transplants after intense antibiotic regimens.
Sorta gross... a shit transplant...
Point is, that's EXACTLY the same role that microbes serve for plants.
Plants don't have teeth, it's not like they munch on fish bone meal...
So, a no-till would be better suited for a fungal growth and recycling soil in a bin would be better for bacterial growth? I know, I still have some reading to do!
 

greasemonkeymann

Well-Known Member
So, a no-till would be better suited for a fungal growth and recycling soil in a bin would be better for bacterial growth? I know, I still have some reading to do!
depends on the soil ingredients, the entire premise of no-till is to "protect" the soil web.
In my opinion, a STRICT no-til is VERY hard to do successfully inside, reason is the containers simply are limited.
I do no-tills for two or three runs, max. Three runs in the 15 gals, two if in the 12 or 10s, annnnd I always see a more vigorous growth (especially during vege) in freshly RE amended mix.
My theory is the compost provides a nice shot of nitrogen.
LOVE compost... shit is magical.
But considering it's like a buffet of humus and composted nutrients, shouldn't surprise me... but it always does.
 

MustangStudFarm

Well-Known Member
depends on the soil ingredients, the entire premise of no-till is to "protect" the soil web.
In my opinion, a STRICT no-til is VERY hard to do successfully inside, reason is the containers simply are limited.
I do no-tills for two or three runs, max. Three runs in the 15 gals, two if in the 12 or 10s, annnnd I always see a more vigorous growth (especially during vege) in freshly RE amended mix.
My theory is the compost provides a nice shot of nitrogen.
LOVE compost... shit is magical.
But considering it's like a buffet of humus and composted nutrients, shouldn't surprise me... but it always does.
From what I could tell, cannabis benefits more from a bacterial dominate soil, right? Then, it would make sense to why you get the results by re-amending! I am trying to learn something new everyday, some people kick knowledge in the dick and shut the door!!!
 

greasemonkeymann

Well-Known Member
From what I could tell, cannabis benefits more from a bacterial dominate soil, right? Then, it would make sense to why you get the results by re-amending! I am trying to learn something new everyday, some people kick knowledge in the dick and shut the door!!!
I linked you a good thread on bokashi by the way.
Cannabis has to have BOTH, but probably more bacterial than fungal, but who's to say..
typically grasses, annual, flowers, etc, do better in bacterial soils
 

DonTesla

Well-Known Member
So, a no-till would be better suited for a fungal growth and recycling soil in a bin would be better for bacterial growth? I know, I still have some reading to do!
Fungi and bacteria actually work very similarly ..

*Both LOVE the plant and its root exudates..
*Both develop symbiotic relationships..
*They even both eat carbs and sugars.
*They both are big recyclers ..

And even though the fungi do a lot of the heavier lifting, bacteria can kinda break down long chain complex carbohydrates too.. by eating the carbon molecules here and there, breaking big long things down into smaller more munchable things, like simple sugars, and fatty and amino acids, the building blocks for life..

Overall tho, yes, the bacteria prefer simple carbs, "green" foods and the fungus more "brown" foods, the complex carbs and tougher dinner items (stale bun, anyone?)

As for your question, 'Stang..
I would think the no till provides larger "stadiums" for the bacteria to survive too.

for example, if you don't sustain fungal growth by adding fungal foods I'd say bacteria could easily dominate..especially if you "scratch/work" the surface.

(Your choice of aeration can impact this lots then)

Remember darkness is one of the fungi's favorite things too, easier for them to establish in beginning then to survive up top during the end. So better to create the fungi, and work it in, cause bacteria will end up dominating the topsoil more easily.

Of course, There are two mains types of fungi we love.
There is regular mycelium easily to grow with any fungal food, then there is the special genera know as myco fungi.

Myco fungi is known to increase yields up to 35% in tomatoes, a similar crop to ours.
They tap into roots, take about 5% water/juice (root exudate, their fav) in exchange for up ~45% more nutrients and water, a killer trade off!
-they're also known to increase root mass by 7-10x according to these books, that's 1000%, amazingly.

So that's some foodweb101 bruh..
Fungi greatly help water and nutrient-reach and are needed for all the rocks, bones and minerals..
(Monkeys right, No one wants phosphorus locked up during flower)
They also help soil structure, and therefore help not just reach for water, but retention of it, and the inherent nutrients too.

Whereas bacteria, the porn stars of the soil food web who can have up to 500, 000 offspring in just 12 hours, are "CRUCIAL" recyclers for Co2, sulphur, and carbon, and they can even "employ" enzymes to do work for them (break this down for us, that chain too long, we hungry, bruh)

In fact most must eat carbon ( or sulphur) to sustain themselves.. Then, Anything they eat is mineralized and bio available when they die, unless eaten by a bigger beast, of course.
And the cycle continues..

And thats what it basically boils down to, is that nitrogen recycling, sulphur recycling, as well as the carbon cycle, (fresh co2, anyone?) are normally taught as chemical processes, but they are all, actually, biological.

The heroes behind the scenes are the bacteria and fungi, every time.
 

calliandra

Well-Known Member
Yep, amazing writeup, thanks @DonTesla :)

I just spent the past 2 hours listening to talks by Elaine Ingham on the soil food web and was headed to the beginning of this thread to reread it all with my added new perspective, when lo, all that and more in your post! :mrgreen:

Whereas bacteria, the porn stars of the soil food web who can have up to 500, 000 offspring in just 12 hours, are "CRUCIAL" recyclers for Co2, sulphur, and carbon, and they can even "employ" enzymes to do work for them (break this down for us, that chain too long, we hungry, bruh)

In fact most must eat carbon ( or sulphur) to sustain themselves.. Then, Anything they eat is mineralized and bio available when they die, unless eaten by a bigger beast, of course.
Reading this reminded me of the thing with the C:N ratio of, say, mulches or compost components.
That would then be the way to finetune the dominance of bacteria or fungi in the soil, should the one or the other be insufficiently present?

The heroes behind the scenes are the bacteria and fungi, every time.
They sure are!
Ah, I love this stuff, this is the way I want to go about! :-D
 

darkzero

Well-Known Member
Well
Fungi and bacteria actually work very similarly ..

*Both LOVE the plant and its root exudates..
*Both develop symbiotic relationships..
*They even both eat carbs and sugars.
*They both are big recyclers ..

And even though the fungi do a lot of the heavier lifting, bacteria can kinda break down long chain complex carbohydrates too.. by eating the carbon molecules here and there, breaking big long things down into smaller more munchable things, like simple sugars, and fatty and amino acids, the building blocks for life..

Overall tho, yes, the bacteria prefer simple carbs, "green" foods and the fungus more "brown" foods, the complex carbs and tougher dinner items (stale bun, anyone?)

As for your question, 'Stang..
I would think the no till provides larger "stadiums" for the bacteria to survive too.

for example, if you don't sustain fungal growth by adding fungal foods I'd say bacteria could easily dominate..especially if you "scratch/work" the surface.

(Your choice of aeration can impact this lots then)

Remember darkness is one of the fungi's favorite things too, easier for them to establish in beginning then to survive up top during the end. So better to create the fungi, and work it in, cause bacteria will end up dominating the topsoil more easily.

Of course, There are two mains types of fungi we love.
There is regular mycelium easily to grow with any fungal food, then there is the special genera know as myco fungi.

Myco fungi is known to increase yields up to 35% in tomatoes, a similar crop to ours.
They tap into roots, take about 5% water/juice (root exudate, their fav) in exchange for up ~45% more nutrients and water, a killer trade off!
-they're also known to increase root mass by 7-10x according to these books, that's 1000%, amazingly.

So that's some foodweb101 bruh..
Fungi greatly help water and nutrient-reach and are needed for all the rocks, bones and minerals..
(Monkeys right, No one wants phosphorus locked up during flower)
They also help soil structure, and therefore help not just reach for water, but retention of it, and the inherent nutrients too.

Whereas bacteria, the porn stars of the soil food web who can have up to 500, 000 offspring in just 12 hours, are "CRUCIAL" recyclers for Co2, sulphur, and carbon, and they can even "employ" enzymes to do work for them (break this down for us, that chain too long, we hungry, bruh)

In fact most must eat carbon ( or sulphur) to sustain themselves.. Then, Anything they eat is mineralized and bio available when they die, unless eaten by a bigger beast, of course.
And the cycle continues..

And thats what it basically boils down to, is that nitrogen recycling, sulphur recycling, as well as the carbon cycle, (fresh co2, anyone?) are normally taught as chemical processes, but they are all, actually, biological.

The heroes behind the scenes are the bacteria and fungi, every time.
Well said Don you just dropped the Mic so hard
 

MustangStudFarm

Well-Known Member
Fungi and bacteria actually work very similarly ..

*Both LOVE the plant and its root exudates..
*Both develop symbiotic relationships..
*They even both eat carbs and sugars.
*They both are big recyclers ..

And even though the fungi do a lot of the heavier lifting, bacteria can kinda break down long chain complex carbohydrates too.. by eating the carbon molecules here and there, breaking big long things down into smaller more munchable things, like simple sugars, and fatty and amino acids, the building blocks for life..

Overall tho, yes, the bacteria prefer simple carbs, "green" foods and the fungus more "brown" foods, the complex carbs and tougher dinner items (stale bun, anyone?)

As for your question, 'Stang..
I would think the no till provides larger "stadiums" for the bacteria to survive too.

for example, if you don't sustain fungal growth by adding fungal foods I'd say bacteria could easily dominate..especially if you "scratch/work" the surface.

(Your choice of aeration can impact this lots then)

Remember darkness is one of the fungi's favorite things too, easier for them to establish in beginning then to survive up top during the end. So better to create the fungi, and work it in, cause bacteria will end up dominating the topsoil more easily.

Of course, There are two mains types of fungi we love.
There is regular mycelium easily to grow with any fungal food, then there is the special genera know as myco fungi.

Myco fungi is known to increase yields up to 35% in tomatoes, a similar crop to ours.
They tap into roots, take about 5% water/juice (root exudate, their fav) in exchange for up ~45% more nutrients and water, a killer trade off!
-they're also known to increase root mass by 7-10x according to these books, that's 1000%, amazingly.

So that's some foodweb101 bruh..
Fungi greatly help water and nutrient-reach and are needed for all the rocks, bones and minerals..
(Monkeys right, No one wants phosphorus locked up during flower)
They also help soil structure, and therefore help not just reach for water, but retention of it, and the inherent nutrients too.

Whereas bacteria, the porn stars of the soil food web who can have up to 500, 000 offspring in just 12 hours, are "CRUCIAL" recyclers for Co2, sulphur, and carbon, and they can even "employ" enzymes to do work for them (break this down for us, that chain too long, we hungry, bruh)

In fact most must eat carbon ( or sulphur) to sustain themselves.. Then, Anything they eat is mineralized and bio available when they die, unless eaten by a bigger beast, of course.
And the cycle continues..

And thats what it basically boils down to, is that nitrogen recycling, sulphur recycling, as well as the carbon cycle, (fresh co2, anyone?) are normally taught as chemical processes, but they are all, actually, biological.

The heroes behind the scenes are the bacteria and fungi, every time.
I am going to have to read into this. I was aware that the regular mycelium is a decomposer of wood or grass. Myco is fairly new to me, I see that there is a endo and ecto mycorrhizae. What would be a good way to bring this to soil? It does not exactly look like a decomposer?
 

DonTesla

Well-Known Member
Thanks brotha!
That post deserves a double "like" man.
Good info!
But a comment like that from the GreaseMonkey Man be worth at least 3 likes in my books, you know your herbs!

[/USER] :)

".. just spent the past 2 hours listening to talks by Elaine Ingham on the soil food web .."
Interesting, will have to check her out, man. Right on.

As for mulches, im still working on companions ..
.. tried some crazier shit, but thats where mistakes can happen easier.

Better off just making good soil from the inside out in the beginning then trying to react up top later..

so now im just trying to get value out of my mulch, like organic greens/ herbs, or go for a cool simplicity such as the backups, straw / shredded brown paper.

Don't like any kind of rocks on top except maybe D.E. Rocks now.
My air clay was bad idea, tho, for example.

Even rock some plants bare as their canopy is so bushy that theres nothing but shade down there. Gives me a good close read on the life.

Anyways, you can control almost anyway, but its then a question of whether its more reactive vs proactive.

Proactive would be compost.
Compost has some major advantages, like bio-activating Biochar, and the TRIA in alfafa..

"Reading this reminded me of the thing with the C:N ratio of, say, mulches or compost components.
"That would then be the way to finetune the dominance of bacteria or fungi in the soil, should the one or the other be insufficiently present?"


Some guys don't add teas once innoculated. An advantage with big pots. But if you do apply tea, they have about 15-30x more total bacteria than total fungi.. So if fungal Dom a tea can help restore balance too.

I am going to have to read into this. I was aware that the regular mycelium is a decomposer of wood or grass. Myco is fairly new to me, I see that there is a endo and ecto mycorrhizae. What would be a good way to bring this to soil? It does not exactly look like a decomposer?
Just google myco, probably lead you to a thread on RIU, ha.
All organic guys love myco.
Myco have symbiotic relationship with almost everything!
They give more than take for sure.[/QUOTE]
 

calliandra

Well-Known Member
Interesting, will have to check her out, man. Right on.
This 1.5hr talk provides a pretty well-rounded introduction:

Anyways, you can control almost anyway, but its then a question of whether its more reactive vs proactive.

Proactive would be compost.
Compost has some major advantages, like bio-activating Biochar, and the TRIA in alfafa..

"Reading this reminded me of the thing with the C:N ratio of, say, mulches or compost components.
"That would then be the way to finetune the dominance of bacteria or fungi in the soil, should the one or the other be insufficiently present?"


Some guys don't add teas once innoculated. An advantage with big pots. But if you do apply tea, they have about 15-30x more total bacteria than total fungi.. So if fungal Dom a tea can help restore balance too.
Very cool to know! So compost teas can then also be used reactively (I like the differentiation!) in case the soil starts to stray.

Though yes, from where I stand at the mo I would tend to want to just get a well-balanced living soil going (for which I see good compost as ideal), make sure the conditions are good for the soil food web to thrive, and then just maintain that environment continuously by providing organic material like mulches and occasional ewc additions.
 

MustangStudFarm

Well-Known Member
Thanks brotha!


But a comment like that from the GreaseMonkey Man be worth at least 3 likes in my books, you know your herbs!



Interesting, will have to check her out, man. Right on.

As for mulches, im still working on companions ..
.. tried some crazier shit, but thats where mistakes can happen easier.

Better off just making good soil from the inside out in the beginning then trying to react up top later..

so now im just trying to get value out of my mulch, like organic greens/ herbs, or go for a cool simplicity such as the backups, straw / shredded brown paper.

Don't like any kind of rocks on top except maybe D.E. Rocks now.
My air clay was bad idea, tho, for example.

Even rock some plants bare as their canopy is so bushy that theres nothing but shade down there. Gives me a good close read on the life.

Anyways, you can control almost anyway, but its then a question of whether its more reactive vs proactive.

Proactive would be compost.
Compost has some major advantages, like bio-activating Biochar, and the TRIA in alfafa..

"Reading this reminded me of the thing with the C:N ratio of, say, mulches or compost components.
"That would then be the way to finetune the dominance of bacteria or fungi in the soil, should the one or the other be insufficiently present?"


Some guys don't add teas once innoculated. An advantage with big pots. But if you do apply tea, they have about 15-30x more total bacteria than total fungi.. So if fungal Dom a tea can help restore balance too.



Just google myco, probably lead you to a thread on RIU, ha.
All organic guys love myco.
Myco have symbiotic relationship with almost everything!
They give more than take for sure.
[/QUOTE]
Man, I have been thinking about what you said. I had a loss of words yesterday, seems like anything that I tried to say just sounded dumb... I think I understand what you are saying, it is harder to have fungi in the soil, so I should focus more on the fungi. I really could not find much info on myco, I was hoping that there would be a cheap way of getting it or making it. I have been busy the last couple of days and have not had a chance to read anything!
 

MustangStudFarm

Well-Known Member
this isn't too expensive man.
this is the brand I like, both the correct types of myco and it's really affordable.
View attachment 3601711[/QUOTE]
this isn't too expensive man.
this is the brand I like, both the correct types of myco and it's really affordable.
View attachment 3601711[/QUOTE]
I have see this and the N fixing bacteria sitting on a shelf together. I stop buying products that I dont understand, so I left it alone! Thanks to you, I mostly need rooting cubes and seed starter when I go to the store now!
 
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