IMO, grinders have their place. All the talk about raping weed and whatnot is lost on me because i lose very little weed/kief using my grinder. And when the rubber meets the road, waste not want not is how i was raised. It doesn't all make it into the joint but the kief makes a nice topper for special occasions.
As for the roller? They have their place as well. Like when rolling a TON of joints for a get-together and for stealth (because idc HOW good a hand-roller you are, most cops can tell the difference, TRUST ME). They are a learned art. You CAN roll loosely. You just gotta load loosely, roll it minimally, and light up.
i have rollers and have used them MANY times. A hint for those too tight joints is to straighten a paperclip or use a similar size wire and run it right through the center *you'll NEVER get it perfect, just don't rip your paper*. Pack that thing TIGHT (i've broken a couple packing too tightly lol) and roll away. Make it a hard stick. You can't even draw anything through it. THEN skewer it with your paperclip. ALL the way through. Getting it lit can be a little hard but once it is, you are smoking for a LONG time. It doesn't hit REAL easy, more like a cigar. But it burns forever, you get just as medicated if you draw smoke into your mouth like a cigar and then inhale, it makes a GREAT circle toke joint imo. Gives plenty of time for discussion
Again, it's not for everyone but my friends and i have enjoyed them while sitting around a campfire many times. i've used the extra long rollers and trimmed wraps to roll blunts like this as well. They DO have their place IMO.
That being said, i haven't used my rollers in quite awhile. However, my 20th HS reunion is this Saturday and i was planning on just rolling joints by hand and taking cookies and brownies (since my oil spoon and torch wouldn't fly over too well i don't think. Those will be reserved for the private "after" party
) BUT, since i've now been reminded of them, i just might bust the rollers out and take a walk on the course with a few friends (being held at a local golf course)