GroErr Grows...

Humanrob said:

That is awesome information. I've seen people (well, online...) pound their spaces with 60+w/sf, and others go as low as 25-30w/sf.... and I've seen great results from both! I haven't comprehensively gathered the rest of the picture: who is using soil vs. hydro, what nutes and how much, etc. -- and how far from the canopy are the lights hung. There are so many variables that its hard to convey what works and what doesn't just in terms of one element like w/sf.

Every time I lower my lights I get nute issues, so my hypothesis is that tons of light stresses the plants, and unless the grower can match nutes to that extra demand, it works against the plants. In my 2x4 I'm running 8 3070's at about 50w each for 50w/sf, but I have them about 26" off the canopy (which is twice as far as I've seen others go). With no lenses or reflectors, if I had dimmers on them all I could probably dim them and drop them significantly and run the tent cooler. Next rebuild maybe.

In my 3x3 as I mentioned I'm experimenting with an HID/COB mix, so I'm not sure how to calculate the w/sf. Your method of oz/per gallon of medium is an interesting constant in the comparisons, especially as we compare different light platforms.

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Yeah definitely a lot of factors. For the record I've been running between 16-18" above canopy since I put them in and I don't see any need to place them lower. Besides losing coverage as you get closer to the canopy, I'm getting solid buds as far as 30" down the plants, why would I want or need to go closer and lose coverage? Even at the 18" height I noticed a couple of phenos this round getting what looks to be bleaching on a couple on the top layer only.

I don't see the benefit of switching to an efficient light source then running w/sq./ft that would equal a hid/hps setup, just doesn't seem like progress and probably a waste of money/light. Based on the runs I've done, 30w/sq./ft seems to me like a decent balance, at that rate you could probably go even higher above canopy and be fine to stretch your coverage a bit.

The oz. per gallon of medium is just kind of an internal reference I use to track how the same pheno does under different conditions. In this case lighting changes as it's about the only significant environmental factor that changed over the last few runs. Of course the key is a constant like my medium, it's always been 50% triple mix soil/50% Pro-Mix so I can rely on that factor to be the constant while changing out other environmental factors and get a relatively accurate read on the effects.

Gquebed said:

Lookin great as usual!

In my initial run with the cobs on a brand new strain.... i have to say the same as @Humanrob . It seems the cob intensity has a very profound effect on nute uptake. It'll take a couple runs to figure it out, but i too am sold on cobs after this one run.

What is obvious for the next run on the same strain is that 12" is too close for Tastys 3590s at full power for my feeding regimen. So adjustments will be made maybe back off the lights a bit and up the nutes some. See what happens ...

Anyway... love your garden and pics!

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Cheers @Gquebed glad to hear you're liking the COB world. This is a fun run for me, bit of work but I have so many different strains/phenos going it's a good indicator for how the strains react to the COBs. As I just posted I'm pretty happy running them at 16-18", even higher at the beginning since I let them stretch into the lights vs. moving them a bunch of times. Once they settled in I actually had to lower them to get to 16-18", they started as high as 30" above some of them for the first couple of weeks in stretch.

As far as feeding, I've been slowly reducing my feeding and over the last few rounds and have had some fat colas and greener plants longer into the cycle. Never feeding them more than 400 ppm and typically every 2nd or 3rd watering once they're into flowering. Less has produced more for me. A couple of phenos haven't liked it, like my JTR this round bitched about N all the way through (although it's the biggest/fattest JTR I've run in 3gal, just lighter colouring than usual), but in general most strains are actually behaving better, less tip burn, greener longer. The Plemon has also complained both times I've run it, crispy leaf tips no matter how much I back off the nutes, may try just giving it water and no supplements next time I run that one.

About how much did your lighting setup run you?

if you dont mind me asking, I know finances are kind of personal for some so feel free to disregard if thats the case.

bf80255 said:

About how much did your lighting setup run you?

if you dont mind me asking, I know finances are kind of personal for some so feel free to disregard if thats the case.

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NP, it's just money to me - lol I paid $990 for the original 3x 100w T2-1400's (early this year), more recently added 2x 150w T2-1400's at $780 (same model number but 3 COBs per bar @50w/COB vs, 2 COBs @50w/COB on the original models). So $1,770 for 600w @1400ma. Of course prices change and typically reduce as new chips come out. I also opted for the most expensive option running them at 1400ma, cheaper per watt of output if you're running them with the higher amperage drivers like the 2100 series.

GroErr said:

Cheers @Gquebed glad to hear you're liking the COB world. This is a fun run for me, bit of work but I have so many different strains/phenos going it's a good indicator for how the strains react to the COBs. As I just posted I'm pretty happy running them at 16-18", even higher at the beginning since I let them stretch into the lights vs. moving them a bunch of times. Once they settled in I actually had to lower them to get to 16-18", they started as high as 30" above some of them for the first couple of weeks in stretch.

As far as feeding, I've been slowly reducing my feeding and over the last few rounds and have had some fat colas and greener plants longer into the cycle. Never feeding them more than 400 ppm and typically every 2nd or 3rd watering once they're into flowering. Less has produced more for me. A couple of phenos haven't liked it, like my JTR this round bitched about N all the way through (although it's the biggest/fattest JTR I've run in 3gal, just lighter colouring than usual), but in general most strains are actually behaving better, less tip burn, greener longer. The Plemon has also complained both times I've run it, crispy leaf tips no matter how much I back off the nutes, may try just giving it water and no supplements next time I run that one.

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Hmmm... maybe i am reading the signs wrong. Ive had the tip burn from overdoing it, but at the same time ive had what appears to be deficiencies... maybe it is just just crispiness from the lights... i will have to look closer...

Gquebed said:

Hmmm... maybe i am reading the signs wrong. Ive had the tip burn from overdoing it, but at the same time ive had what appears to be deficiencies... maybe it is just just crispiness from the lights... i will have to look closer...

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Yeah sounds like maybe the lights are too close which could throw off your analysis of what's causing it. I'm not seeing them increasing uptake and I haven't changed medium, only adjustments for me have been reducing my supplemental feeds slowly over the past several runs (-50ppm at a time). Even at 500 ppm I was burning them, now at 400 only the really sensitive phenos are getting slight tip burn. And to boot, if anything they increased production, as you can see from some of those colas (multiple strains/phenos with fat-ass colas), they don't seem to be lacking food - lol

Humanrob said:

That is awesome information. I've seen people (well, online...) pound their spaces with 60+w/sf, and others go as low as 25-30w/sf.... and I've seen great results from both! I haven't comprehensively gathered the rest of the picture: who is using soil vs. hydro, what nutes and how much, etc. -- and how far from the canopy are the lights hung. There are so many variables that its hard to convey what works and what doesn't just in terms of one element like w/sf.

Every time I lower my lights I get nute issues, so my hypothesis is that tons of light stresses the plants, and unless the grower can match nutes to that extra demand, it works against the plants. In my 2x4 I'm running 8 3070's at about 50w each for 50w/sf, but I have them about 26" off the canopy (which is twice as far as I've seen others go). With no lenses or reflectors, if I had dimmers on them all I could probably dim them and drop them significantly and run the tent cooler. Next rebuild maybe.

In my 3x3 as I mentioned I'm experimenting with an HID/COB mix, so I'm not sure how to calculate the w/sf. Your method of oz/per gallon of medium is an interesting constant in the comparisons, especially as we compare different light platforms.

Click to expand...

Everything is a balance; push your plants harder and they'll have different needs.

GroErr said:

Yeah sounds like maybe the lights are too close which could throw off your analysis of what's causing it. I'm not seeing them increasing uptake and I haven't changed medium, only adjustments for me have been reducing my supplemental feeds slowly over the past several runs (-50ppm at a time). Even at 500 ppm I was burning them, now at 400 only the really sensitive phenos are getting slight tip burn. And to boot, if anything they increased production, as you can see from some of those colas (multiple strains/phenos with fat-ass colas), they don't seem to lacking food - lol

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With info like this I'll get a garden like yours sooner rather than later.

Gquebed said:

With info like this I'll get a garden like yours sooner rather than later.

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There's so many variables, medium, lights, water/feed, grow styles. Once you dial them in these COBs hold up their end

Some bud shots. Getting close on some of these, most will be ready in the next 7-10 days, the Blue Ripper, JTR and Plemon should be 56-58 days That Blue Ripper x Blue Dream P2 might be the last one to finish, 80 days?? - lol

Blue Ripper x Blue Dream P2, Day 67:



Blue Ripper F2/P3, Day 52:



Jack The Ripper, Day 52:



Plemon, Day 52:



Blue Ripper x Harlequin, Day 34:



Cheers

You really can see the difference in the hairs....I expect that the trichs concur.

Javadog said:

You really can see the difference in the hairs....I expect that the trichs concur.

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Cheers JD, yeah I find with most phenos they match up, once the hairs are 90%+ turned the trichs are cloudy and I'll see the odd amber. It's pheno/strain dependant but I won't pull them if the hairs are still primarily white. I think they're a better indicator than trichs myself.

If you look closely at the Blue Ripper x Harlequin, there's already amber and it's only Day 34 but the plant is nowhere near ready to harvest. That's a trait from the Harlequin and may have something to do with higher CBD content phenos. I hope so because that's exactly what I'm looking for in that cross. Ideally a 75/25 mix like 20% THC and 6% CBD

These plus the Plemon should be good to go in the next 5-7 days, chop chop by next weekend.

Nice little Xmas/New Year's stash coming up


Blue Ripper x Blue Dream P2, long runner but finally getting there at Day 69/10 weeks:



JTR, Day 54:



Blue Dream, Day 54:



Blue Ripper F2/P3, Day 54:



Cheers

That br f2 looks like easy trimming. Hardly any sugar leaves. At least on that bud

Damn Brother You Buds Look Rock Hard

Beautiful!!!






We found that Cal-Mag and Pro-Tekt (silica) were needed at a higher rate with LEDs.

Also because heat was down, we had to watch respiration moisture on the leaves. More fans and de-humidifiers were needed.

Growdict said:

That br f2 looks like easy trimming. Hardly any sugar leaves. At least on that bud

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Good eye yeah that one is super easy all the way down, f'n stinky and fire too. This is the 1st gen clone and you'll see once I pull it, it's a decent producer, was a relatively small clone going in but has some nice weight on it. Clones easy too, almost a perfect pheno

The Dawg said:

Damn Brother You Buds Look Rock Hard

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Cheers Dawg, every pheno is solid, some nice weight in there Damn brother that's a great version of that song, smokin'

Mohican said:

Beautiful!!!






We found that Cal-Mag and Pro-Tekt (silica) were needed at a higher rate with LEDs.

Also because heat was down, we had to watch respiration moisture on the leaves. More fans and de-humidifiers were needed.

Click to expand...

Cheers Mo, easy round considering the mix of strains/phenos in there, really happy with the 3590's. Haven't found I've needed anything extra on my end but I'm using AN A&B in low ppm feeds and it seems to have everything I need in there with the soil/pro-mix blend I'm running.

Definitely saw a jump in RH due to the lower heat and something to consider if switching from any hotter bulb tech to LED's. The dehuey during lights out is taking care of that end for me.

GroErr said:

Good eye yeah that one is super easy all the way down, f'n stinky and fire too. This is the 1st gen clone and you'll see once I pull it, it's a decent producer, was a relatively small clone going in but has some nice weight on it. Clones easy too, almost a perfect pheno

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Perfect pheno, huh? I wonder if one of those rooted clones could walk into a ziplock bag and ship itself to Colorado?