Growing off the grid

billy4479 said:

I Read about these are a real danger for fire fighters . because there no way to turn a solar panel off when the sun is shinning . its a danger to spray water on a burning building with live electricity . I bet in a few years house with solar panels might lose there fire insurance or home owners insurance all together .

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If that were the truth then it couldn't rain on them either..

supertiger said:

If that were the truth then it couldn't rain on them either..

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Key words:
Burning building
Electricity
Water

So what is being said is if the building is burning it's a fire hazard to spray water on the solar panels because it might start a fire??? Where's the logic here?

Nutes and Nugs said:

Somewhere here in riu is a thread on solar power.
This guy was living in the mountains and was using a small car engine for a radiant floor set up as well as some electric.
That thread talked of Bedini motors, coal tar.
I'll be damned if I can find it.

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I've ran across a couple. I'll have to look for that one, sounds very interesting.

supertiger said:

So what is being said is if the building is burning it's a fire hazard to spray water on the solar panels because it might start a fire??? Where's the logic here?

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What the original poster was talking about I think is the fact they have no way to disconnect power to the building in a fire as they do first in any fire. They do this so as the insulation melts on the wiring, it doesn't create an electrified lake. With this being said the fireman just cut the wire at the pole when my house burned down 3 years ago, I'm sure they can do something similar if needed with the solar connections if they are all contained in the dwelling. And its very easy to wire a disconnect into the system and have it stand away from the structure if it really was a concern. The average person in the U.S. has such a negative attitude towards alternative energy sources just because they don't really know and don't take the time to learn. The oil and electric companies make lots of money from this ignorance and they keep feeding the propaganda against it, and the people buy it.

By code a DC disconnect needs to be installed.
By code an AC disconnect needs to be installed.

PV power systems are safe if installed properly.

^^^^^^^This^^^^^^^

There's something completely wrong with the original scenario in this thread. The Pacific Northwest has the cheapest power in the U.S. Here's a .pdf of Seattle's rates. They have many different rate schedules, so I picked the generic city schedule.

Summer schedule: First 10 kWh /day: 4.75 cents per kWh. After that you get punished. 10.8 cents/kWh.

Winter schedule: Only change is the first 16 kWh/day is 4.75 cents. So you can use more in the winter before the rates bump up.

Lots of people would kill for rates like that.

So let's do some backwards math.

15 cents/day meter charge. $4.50/month. Round it off to $5 and subtract from $500/month.

$495/month divided by 30 days = $16.5/day. Let's round it back to $16 for the sake of argument. How much power would you have to use to spend that much in Seattle? We'll use the winter rates. Those first 16kWh/day only cost 76 cents. After that you're at the 10.8 cent rate.

Subtract the 76 cents from $16. $15.24 is left. $15.24 divided by 10.8 cents/kWh = 141 kW!!?? Wait, that can't be right.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but it looks like you'd have to use roughly 150kWh per day to ring up a $500 monthly power bill in the City of Seattle.

Now let's look at a map of U.S. solar insolation. See that blue pocket in the upper left? The area with crappy solar potential? Yeah, that's Seattle. The OP claims that his friend, the guy who uses 150kWh per day, hooked up some panels on a cloudy day and the meter went backwards.

That's possible. If his friend went to the breaker panel and turned everything off. But to claim that a few dozen panels in the cloudy Pacific Northwest is gonna offset a $500/month Pacific Northwest power bill is just pure bullshit. You gotta want it bad to install PV in Western Washington precisely because of the double-whammy. Solar potential is really low, and grid power is really cheap.

Anyone who knows anything about solar knows that it would take a lot of PV panels in Arizona to offset that level of consumption. To do it in Seattle you'd need a warehouse roof.

Fuck kmows were th 8k per panel came from lol I can get 12 on me roof for 4k and thats with them being installed lmao fuckin 8k per panel lol

@mello. You are forgetting about the transmission fees, taxes surcharges and bullshit they tack on. I don't know about there but here we have a pretty great rate too. By the time they add on all the bullshit it doubles the original bill.

so if you are paying 6 cents kwh it ends up being 12 cents.

Hi, joe -

I'll concede your argument although I don't think that's the case here. Because it doesn't matter. The OP's original scenario is still ludicrous even if you take my original calculations and cut them in half.

Tell you what. Don't take my word for it. Here's a Solar Calculator. I plugged in a Seattle zip code: 98101. Clicked on: Residential. Electricity Offset: 100%. Utility: Seattle City of. Average Monthly Electrical Bill: $500. Click the "Estimate" button.

Cost Estimate: $276,371.

nice link..plus rep

Converting light energy to electricity and then back to light energy... What a waste. Too bad we can't just grow directly under the sun =(

This initiative was started in my country, but fast enough the electric company realized it's causing voltage drops at night and they're losing money so they changed the law, and now it's super expensive.. =(

CAPSLOCK said:

Converting light energy to electricity and then back to light energy... What a waste. Too bad we can't just grow directly under the sun =(
(

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very true......

I came across a retired employee of a utility company who complained: The federal solar energy program mandates they offer the option to install panels for homeowners. So they lease the panels at $250 a month in my area for a two year period. After two years you can A) choose to lease the service again for an additional two years, B) pay for the costly installation and buy the panels from the utility company so you generate power for them or, C) Terminate the lease. The problem with option C is that the utility company then has to incur cost to remove the panels and repair your roof. They don't do that. They abandon the equiptment instead. Due to this flaw they do not promote the mandate. Any one can cancel the lease and get the infrastructure needed to provide free energy for themselves for the cost of a two year lease. In essence, the utility company loses a customer forever after that. Every state and county is different so check your local utility company and read the fine print.

nice loophole strops. but pissing off the power company is the last thing I wanna do...with the smart meters and such.........

You wont grow marijuana with 100% solar power unless you spend like 1 million dollars on solar panels and you will still need a gas generator for backup. Trust me I know I live in Colorado this is one of the best areas for solar harvesting, Westcliffe Colorado is completely off the grid my uncle lives there and lives off solar/wind power + a generator and wood burning stove. Colorado receives some of the longest amounts of sun without clouds. This is a high land desert. Still not feasible to try to grow like that just a waste of money and time. I think its every growers fantasy to not have to pay for electricity but lets be real its just a dream.

Wow…Well if it's bullshit then my bad. I'm just going by what I was told. Like I say, he runs a business that involves a lot of electricity and I think he has electric heat in his home, too….whatever the case, that's what I was told the bill was. And maybe everything was turned off when they installed it….no idea. But I was surprised too because I had asked about solar a few years ago and the solar guy told me that it wasn't feasible….but like I say that was a few years ago and technologies advance quickly…especially in areas of alternative energy that a lot of Oregonians and Washingtonians seem to prefer. So maybe they are making the technology to work in the cloudy Pac NW now….? I honestly don't know.

Good to know we have low rates, though!

Solar is feasible. But the #1 rule of moving toward a solar household is to reduce your loads first. Switch the stove, water heater, and all space heating to propane, natural gas, wood, passive solar construction, buffalo chips, whatever. Buy the most efficient fridge you can find. Change out all light bulbs to LED. Ditch the big desktop PC's and go to laptops or tablets. Reducing your consumption is always cheaper than making more of your own power.

If solar living was your goal, and you lived in Western Washington, one could make a strong case for quitting your job and relocating to Colorado or Nevada or Southern Oregon than to try and make it happen there.

There is no amazing new technology that's making it work in the PNW. Inverters have improved a lot. Panels are cheaper and somewhat more efficient than years ago. But the improvements have been evolutionary rather than revolutionary. Maybe global warming will help the PNW compete.

Gas cost's alot some times and I don't want to be on their tit.You could spend forever designing power supplies and back ups.I swear the wind @ my new place is 20 MPH Min all the time so if I put up a windmill it would crank out some volt's and amp's.I'm afraid the wind will be too much to even grow any trophy's outdoor here.Pity because there is so much sun.One Project @ a time.