Guide to Getting Rid of Root Rot

I've never labeled myself as a grow guru, for the record. Please provide sources for your claim that cyanobacteria is algae. My source says

"Because they are photosynthetic and aquatic, cyanobacteria are often called "blue-green algae". This name is convenient for talking about organisms in the water that make their own food, but does not reflect any relationship between the cyanobacteria and other organisms called algae. Cyanobacteria are relatives of the bacteria, not eukaryotes, and it is only the chloroplast in eukaryotic algae to which the cyanobacteria are related."

http://www.ucmp.berkeley.edu/bacteria/cyanointro.html




If the tea is too much hassle for you, then fair enough. No where do I claim that tea treatments are effortless, and they are meant to gain a measure of control, not to be a perpetual requirement for growing. Once an outbreak is handled, treatments are optional. Using laziness to support your point of view is not terrible persuasive.



An argument from incredulity. Just because you are unable to imagine something doesn't mean it's false. The concept of diversity and competition is what protects you from microbe infection on a daily basis. Your skin is covered in bacteria that help out compete pathogens, your mouth is full of bacteria that help displace decomposes, and "worm shit" is an integral part of any soil garden. If we shrugged off any concept which seems counter-intuitive to us, we would have to throw out the majority of scientific knowledge. Using your lack of imagination to support your point of view is not terribly persuasive.


Here is one example of how loss of diversity can lead to infection.
"The team reports this week in the journal Science Translational Medicine that sinusitis may be linked to the loss of normal microbial diversity within the sinuses following an infection and the subsequent colonization of the sinuses by the culprit bacterium, which is called Corynebacterium tuberculostearicum."
http://www.ucsf.edu/news/2012/09/12718/sinusitis-linked-microbial-diversity



I have always been very upfront that the tea is for those who have tried everything else and failed. Many outbreaks of slime are resistant to sterilizers, unless we add amounts that would also kill plants. There are some who would say brewing tea is easier than constantly cleaning every piece of equipment and the entire growroom. I myself would argue that those things should be done anyway, but your assertion that sterilization is easier than brewing tea is not universal.



Again, the tea is meant for situations where slime resists h202 treatments. If you think h202 treatments are not detrimental to plants, then cite your source. If you have never seen proper levels of h202 recommended, then I question how much effort you could have put into research. The use of h202 is a risk vs benefit call.



Using inexperience as support for your point of view is not terrible persuasive.



The entire reason you mentioned cyanobacteria was to correct what you thought was a factual error. You were wrong, and now your defense is that facts don't matter? Using a double standard to support your point of view is not terribly persuasive.

The very first sentence in your sticky says, “When a clear snot forms on roots in a DWC, and the normal course of treatment for root disease doesn't work, you probably have something called brown slime algae, which actually isn't algae at all, but a cyanobacteria. It loves oxygen and doesn't need light to grow.” This, of course, is bullshit. Your very own source

http://www.ucmp.berkeley.edu/bacteria/cyanolh.html

says that, “Whatever their color, cyanobacteria are photosynthetic, and so can manufacture their own food. “ This same source goes on to say, “The term "algae" merely refers to any aquatic organisms capable of photosynthesis, and so applies to several groups.” So, you’re wrong and Cyanobacteria qualify as algae.

My laziness notwithstanding, your sticky does say, ”Making a microbe tea is cheap and easy…” How can you make that claim if the bulk of the end product goes down the drain? This is wasteful and inefficient, not cheap and easy.

I’m afraid that you have me on the incredulity. In my mind, if something is dirty, you clean it. The whole bio-diversity thing is new to me. All is good though. This is one of the reasons why I took up hydro growing. I’m learning something every day.

You said, “Many outbreaks of slime are resistant to sterilizers, unless we add amounts that would also kill plants.” This is also bullshit. Iodophor and H2O2 are deadly to bacteria if used correctly and yet are safe for your roots. The proof is in my grow room. I think the burden is on you to demonstrate otherwise.
 
You can dump as much bleach and h2o2 on slimed roots as you want... it won't do dick to remove the slime. A shot glass of aquashield once a week is all you need. It's cheaper too. h2o2 dissipates in a few hours so adding it every few days isn't doing much, you could probably stop using it altogether and see the same results (ie: nothing)
Bleach? Who said anything about bleach? If using H2O2 as a one-off, high strength shock dose with just tap water, it will rid completely your res of slime in a few days. Follow that up with your regular nute mix and 20 to 30 ml of H2O2 twice weekly and you are good to go. Aquashield and Hygrozyme are all crap.
 

Hydroburn

Well-Known Member
Aquashield and Hygrozyme are all crap.
Well... yea aquashield is chicken litter so congrats on (accidently) saying something half accurate. So, have you ever run bennies or are you just talking shit about something you have never tried and don't understand? Have you ever cleared a slime outbreak with h2o2?

So far you are blowing smoke up everyone's ass. Pondzyme costs $15 at any petsmart and lasts a year. Maintanance dosing is 1 teaspoon per 100 gallons once every two weeks. Sorry but h2o2 can't fuck with that if cheap and lazy is your style (I'm all about cheap and lazy tbh).


Also bleach is a common sterilizer people use in hydro... zone pool shock chlorine h2o2 it is all the same and all bullshit for your plant.
 

Heisenberg

Well-Known Member
The very first sentence in your sticky says, “When a clear snot forms on roots in a DWC, and the normal course of treatment for root disease doesn't work, you probably have something called brown slime algae, which actually isn't algae at all, but a cyanobacteria. It loves oxygen and doesn't need light to grow.” This, of course, is bullshit. Your very own source

http://www.ucmp.berkeley.edu/bacteria/cyanolh.html

says that, “Whatever their color, cyanobacteria are photosynthetic, and so can manufacture their own food. “ This same source goes on to say, “The term "algae" merely refers to any aquatic organisms capable of photosynthesis, and so applies to several groups.” So, you’re wrong and Cyanobacteria qualify as algae.
There is a difference between technical and colloquial terms, which is explained in the bit I quoted.

My laziness notwithstanding, your sticky does say, ”Making a microbe tea is cheap and easy…” How can you make that claim if the bulk of the end product goes down the drain? This is wasteful and inefficient, not cheap and easy.
Who says it goes down the drain? Many people have systems large enough that they use every bit, and if you have any sort of other plants, inside or out, including a garden or even just a lawn, then leftover product isn't wasted. Obviously you would tailor the usage to fit your situation. I suppose "cheap and easy" is a relative statement. It costs pennies to make a batch and is as easy as throwing ingredients into a bucket. As I've said, if some find that a hassle then that is their prerogative, however, just because it may be wasteful for you doesn't mean it's true of everyone.

You said, “Many outbreaks of slime are resistant to sterilizers, unless we add amounts that would also kill plants.” This is also bullshit. Iodophor and H2O2 are deadly to bacteria if used correctly and yet are safe for your roots. The proof is in my grow room. I think the burden is on you to demonstrate otherwise.
You seem to think everyone lives inside your personal world of experience. Maybe it would help if I phrased it differently. Many outbreaks of slime prove themselves resistant to sterilizers unless we add amounts that would kill plants. I admit most problems in DWC that result in slime can be fixed and even cured with proper maintenance and sterilization. I also say on my first post that when to suspect you have the dreaded "brown slime" is when you have done everything right and still can't shake it. Despite what you have experienced, many others have thrown every sterilizer they could at the slime and lost. My thread is full of examples. Now, anecodtes are not scientific evidnece, but unless you think these people are all lying, mistaken or incompetent, and it was only by coincidence that the tea worked for them when sterilizers did not, then there is your proof.
 
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mjdudeist

Active Member
You seem to think everyone lives inside your personal world of experience. My thread is full of examples. Now, anecodtes are not scientific evidnece, but unless you think these people are all lying, mistaken or incompetent, and it was only by coincidence that the tea worked for them when sterilizers did not, then there is your proof.
I don't use tea but that couldn't have been said better.

just because you don't understand what's going on, don't mean it doesn't make sense. just because you don't like it, doesn't make it no good.
 

SableZen

Well-Known Member
The whole bio-diversity thing is new to me. All is good though. This is one of the reasons why I took up hydro growing. I’m learning something every day.
The symbiotic relationships between plants and microbes is pretty fascinating - definitely should learn more about it someday.
 

hoban

New Member
sm-90, Zone, H2o2 and physan 20 will all purge root rot IF you also correct res conditions. Just correcting res conditions alone will show a huge improvement. Stillcantroll is correct saying that a properly maintained res should never get root rot. You might however get the brown slime despite doing everything right. It doesn't play by the same rules.

Adding beneficial microbes will rid your res of just about any detrimental microbes, including rot, gunk and slime, and let you easily get away with less than perfect res conditions, within reason. I personally would still sterilize the roots first.

If you have sterilizing agents and decide to go with bennies, you can no longer use them in your active res. You can however still use them to sterilize tubs and equipment between grows and to wipe down walls.
Sir Eisen berg......I am on the second batch of your SUPER tea.....it showed massive improvement....then crashed.....im going nuts.....i am super dilligent in cleaniong using clorox to clean....and sterilizing w/ physan 20 just before use.....after the tea 1 plant w/ massive white roots, they all rotted above the water line......all the other in this new batch....rot as soon as they touch the watter....i germinate the put in 1.5 " rockwool...then as soon as root show out the bottom...i put them in net pot in hydro box about the sixe of a shoe box....2airstones...plants go wild...they stay only a week or so.....then the roots are long enough to go in any size baskey....5" for 6 in a tote.....or individual 5 gal buckets....my 1st grow was easy....used h202....then got away from it using hydrorush....worked great....now all of a sudden ...im screwed!!!....even a plant that was doing great....all of a sudden....crash and burn...im lost....i start to get foam making the tea....at about 24 hrs....then the foam goes away......if i dont have foam are the bennies not thriving?...it's so hard .. my water sucks so i put a RO in that can only bring it down to .19ppm...but the ph is still 8.8....but much more easily moved....straight from the tap its aprox 260 at 8.9 ph and you can ph it til your ph down is gone....it will creep by the hr..........now , even using the ro water to make the tea....my ph keeps running up......i use GH flora duo....calmag/plus, and a bloom booster ....tried a huboldt ginormeous...basically a 0-10-10...will try something else next time......i was trying sweeteners...but then the root rot came in to play and i dont trust anything organic in the res....you mentioned feed the benies in the tea not the res....should i feed the tea more when brewing.....will the death of bennies in your rez cause rot?....please help....its for medicine....10 spinal surgeries....need another soon....cant afford to buy....need to grow...please help?...thank you!!!
 

Hydroburn

Well-Known Member
the tea is hit and miss and has failed me before. Try aquashield and pond-zyme... if you are using tap water, use tap water conditioner to dechlorinate it.
 
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phlopalopagus

Well-Known Member
Ive got a question? I bought some clones in Denver (not a good idea I know) and they looked good for about a week and started going down hill from there. My problem is they give you the clones in rockwool and I despise the stuff anyways have. I put the rockwool cubes in my 3'' net cup and covered it with hydroton (the stuff I love). I dont like to keep my water level lower then the net cup when there young because I feel the crown produces more root shoots that way. I have made the tea and used physan 20 to clean everything and put it all back together then shot the tea into the rockwool cube. Can I bring the water level up to the rockwool it I have plenty of o2 and bennes without it being to wet. Is to wet a concern if the cube is covered with hydroton? It seems the rot loves the moist area right above the water level but doesnt like the water itself. Someone with rockwool experience please chime in.
 

daBigRoll

New Member
Just had a terrible experience with the dreaded slime and eventual root rot in my RDWC system. I did however manage to save some of the plants by removing the net pots from the 5G buckets, dunking and hand washing them in a strong solution of H2O2 and Bleach, trimmed off a shit load of affected root mass and transferred them to a secondary system and completed 3/4 of the flowering cycle before it hit again and I pulled the pin..

I did inoculate with Orca, Great White and FoxFarm MicroBrew but didn't repeat at all and after 5 weeks and only 1 res change, it nailed me again.. my fault.. too lazy..lol

Its impossible to find purpose made products here so I've resorted to Amazon to get some of the goodies mentioned above for sterilization prior to inoculation or future treatment (god forbid it happens again).

Second time around and same thing again, except this time, they don't look like making it...So ive just started brewing my very first tea...

15 ltr bucket
RO water
4 air stones (and a shit load of turbulence) - see foaming
50ml Orca
1 scoop of Great White
5 big handfuls of Vermicast (from my own organic wormies)
50mls Molasses


Have nothing to lose now so considering dumping this in the 15 Gallon container and see what happens.
If I can destroy this god forsaken plague with this tea, then there is nothing to stop me...baahahahahahaaaa

ps great info guys... just a royal bunch of champions indeed...
 

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DukeO

Member
Just had a terrible experience with the dreaded slime and eventual root rot in my RDWC system. I did however manage to save some of the plants by removing the net pots from the 5G buckets, dunking and hand washing them in a strong solution of H2O2 and Bleach, trimmed off a shit load of affected root mass and transferred them to a secondary system and completed 3/4 of the flowering cycle before it hit again and I pulled the pin..

I did inoculate with Orca, Great White and FoxFarm MicroBrew but didn't repeat at all and after 5 weeks and only 1 res change, it nailed me again.. my fault.. too lazy..lol

Its impossible to find purpose made products here so I've resorted to Amazon to get some of the goodies mentioned above for sterilization prior to inoculation or future treatment (god forbid it happens again).

Second time around and same thing again, except this time, they don't look like making it...So ive just started brewing my very first tea...

15 ltr bucket
RO water
4 air stones (and a shit load of turbulence) - see foaming
50ml Orca
1 scoop of Great White
5 big handfuls of Vermicast (from my own organic wormies)
50mls Molasses


Have nothing to lose now so considering dumping this in the 15 Gallon container and see what happens.
If I can destroy this god forsaken plague with this tea, then there is nothing to stop me...baahahahahahaaaa

ps great info guys... just a royal bunch of champions indeed...
It you want to stop root rot and never see slime again. Try z7 water treatment. With z7 there is no need for H2O2 or tea.

It does what those do but much better. My buckets stay spotless at all times. Slime now is a thing of the past for me....
 

daBigRoll

New Member
It you want to stop root rot and never see slime again. Try z7 water treatment. With z7 there is no need for H2O2 or tea.

It does what those do but much better. My buckets stay spotless at all times. Slime now is a thing of the past for me....
I will order some asap and try it... Thanks for the tip. Is it ok with organics too or is it strictly for use with synthetics?
 

coopersheldon

Well-Known Member
Does great white work as well as hydrogyuard? i fully rate hydroguard but they don't stock it in the UK so it costs me double the price to get it shipped.
 

RockinDaGanja

Well-Known Member
Does great white work as well as hydrogyuard? i fully rate hydroguard but they don't stock it in the UK so it costs me double the price to get it shipped.
It depends what your medium is. Mycorrhizae does not do well in hydroponic systems as it is sensitive to the nutrients that are used for hydroponics. For hydroponic systems it is best to use Subculture or Hydroguard. Both these products contain bacillus strains which are well suited to hydroponics even in systems that have high salt contents. Subculture should be applied at a rate of 1 teaspoon per 10 gallons of water/nutrient solution (1 pouch per 50 gallons). The first application of Hydroguard should be 15ml per gallon and maintenance applications at 5-10ml per gallon of nutrient solution. For coco fiber, rockwool and Ready-Gro mediums, both Hydroguard and Subculture should be reapplied 21 days after first application and thereafter every 21 days. For hydroponic systems that use Hydroton rocks, perlite, NFT or aeroponics, the Subculture and Hydroguard should be reapplied every 7 days.
 

coopersheldon

Well-Known Member
It depends what your medium is. Mycorrhizae does not do well in hydroponic systems as it is sensitive to the nutrients that are used for hydroponics. For hydroponic systems it is best to use Subculture or Hydroguard. Both these products contain bacillus strains which are well suited to hydroponics even in systems that have high salt contents. Subculture should be applied at a rate of 1 teaspoon per 10 gallons of water/nutrient solution (1 pouch per 50 gallons). The first application of Hydroguard should be 15ml per gallon and maintenance applications at 5-10ml per gallon of nutrient solution. For coco fiber, rockwool and Ready-Gro mediums, both Hydroguard and Subculture should be reapplied 21 days after first application and thereafter every 21 days. For hydroponic systems that use Hydroton rocks, perlite, NFT or aeroponics, the Subculture and Hydroguard should be reapplied every 7 days.
just such a shame they dont sell hydroguard over here. id use it all the time
 
I would like to know if I have root rot. I've been having problems getting the rock wool to dry properly. Doing it from a bubble bucket system. The leaves are discolored with spots. I tried taking a few shots in different light sources just in case. I already did the hydro peroxide method today.
 

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GroErr

Well-Known Member
I just went through a case of some form of pythium which I'm pretty sure started in my cloner and hit all the phenos I had going, took a while for it to show up and the roots never had any signs (roots were white/clean/healthy looking). I tried some SM-90 which if anything made them worse, then switched to H2O2, gone.

Took about 2 months to save the last pheno but all of them are healthy/good to go again. While this may not apply or be as good for hydro systems, it worked like a charm in my 50% Pro-Mix/50% Triple Mix medium. The worst plant was an indica called Blue Pyramid that was so badly infected I was about to toss it, decided to try this and I'm about to flip it to 12/12 it recovered so well.

Cheap, effective, using it preventatively now through veg as it seems to help them/speed them up if anything:
35% food grade H2O2
Cut it down to 3% with filtered water
Add the 3% solution to my feedings @150 ppm
 
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