Half of US pays no Fed tax.

RickWhite

Well-Known Member
WASHINGTON - Tax Day is a dreaded deadline for millions, but for nearly half of U.S. households it's simply somebody else's problem.
About 47 percent will pay no federal income taxes at all for 2009. Either their incomes were too low, or they qualified for enough credits, deductions and exemptions to eliminate their liability. That's according to projections by the Tax Policy Center, a Washington research organization.
Most people still are required to file returns by the April 15 deadline. The penalty for skipping it is limited to the amount of taxes owed, but it's still almost always better to file: That's the only way to get a refund of all the income taxes withheld by employers.


In recent years, credits for low- and middle-income families have grown so much that a family of four making as much as $50,000 will owe no federal income tax for 2009, as long as there are two children younger than 17, according to a separate analysis by the consulting firm Deloitte Tax.
Tax cuts enacted in the past decade have been generous to wealthy taxpayers, too, making them a target for President Barack Obama and Democrats in Congress. Less noticed were tax cuts for low- and middle-income families, which were expanded when Obama signed the massive economic recovery package last year.
The result is a tax system that exempts almost half the country from paying for programs that benefit everyone, including national defense, public safety, infrastructure and education. It is a system in which the top 10 percent of earners — households making an average of $366,400 in 2006 — paid about 73 percent of the income taxes collected by the federal government.
The bottom 40 percent, on average, make a profit from the federal income tax, meaning they get more money in tax credits than they would otherwise owe in taxes. For those people, the government sends them a payment.

Full Story
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/36226444/ns/business-personal_finance//
 

ink the world

Well-Known Member
I wonder if its because of people like you that offer poverty level wages to 30 year old people...its called the working poor Rick.
 

figtree

Active Member
I wonder if its because of people like you that offer poverty level wages to 30 year old people...its called the working poor Rick.
Nice! Thats exactly what I was going to say. Thats exactly where they want us (working poor) so their pockets can get bigger at our expense. Thats real American, step on whoever you want to make a buck. Oh it is... Corporate American!

And its true, every job I've looked at lately has been minimum wage, WTF! I used to make a very, very good wage and I was able to take care of my family....... and gladly paid my taxes. Still would if I was in the same position no matter if "someone else" paid less. But I guess I have more of a giving heart than most with money and I look realistically at why people are paying what they are paying. I dont expect someone making poverty level wages to have to pay the same in taxes, and if my taxes are helping someone else survive......... so be it! If I'm able to help I will......... even if its my taxes that are helping.

Has America become self centered? Selfishness is running rampant, and its acceptable if your a conservative. Just like fear and hate.
Its funny to me the ones complaining about taxes are the same ones that want our government to fail. Everything they are proposing would make America fail, thats what they want.
 

ink the world

Well-Known Member
LOL I just noticed the link for the article Rick copied and pasted. I dont believe any of it, it comes from the Liberal, Elitist, Lamestream media,, all lies I tell you!! :-)
 

FlyLikeAnEagle

Well-Known Member
Thank Reagan for killing off and weakening unions to the point that jobs that used to be able to support a family now barely support one person. The republicons philosophy drives masses into poverty while enriching the few at the top. When Bush became president the top 8% owned 90% of the countries wealth, 8 years later the top 4% owned 93% of it.
 

Dragline

Well-Known Member
Taken from the article....

"Obama's Making Work Pay credit provides as much as $800 to couples and $400 to individuals. The expanded child tax credit provides $1,000 for each child under 17. The Earned Income Tax Credit provides up to $5,657 to low-income families with at least three children."
Looks like the lions share would be the Earned Income Tax Credit. But I know conservatives won't complain about that since their messiah THE Ronald Reagan gave us the expanded version of the EITC we have today.

I myself owe this year just like every year. Self employment has it's benefits but one of which isn't looking forward to nice tax return check from Uncle Sam.
 

ink the world

Well-Known Member
You mean people like me who provide jobs for people. As opposed to losers like you who are a drain on the economy and contribute nothing?

Since when is $10 per hour an unfair wage? Perhaps if you didn't have such an exaggerated sense of entitlement you wouldn't be such a whining loser.
LOL Rick, glad you showed up. I appreciate the insults , but you are off base as usual.

I DO OWN my own small business. I own a tattoo shop I have a piercer, another tattooist and a desk girl that are employed by me.

The tattooist and piercer receive 70% of all their monies earned. I EXCEED the industry standard in pay by 10%. My desk girl gets paid $12 an hour and gets a monthly bonus based on the amount of appointments she books.

Keep the employees happy and feeling some kind of a personal ownership and they will return the favor in spades.


Now on to how an ADULT can survive off of $10 an hour (lets include a wife and child)

Using your argument from another post about $10 an hour employees, lets run with that pay rate Rick.


$1600 monthly gross income, about $1,200 after taxes.

Average rent for a 2 bedroom apt where I live taken from Craigslist is $950 a 1 bedroom is $750.

So after just paying rent alone our fictional (yet so realistic) family has $250 - $450 a month to live on. Again, lets take the average and assume they have $350 a month to live on.

So that $350 a month has to pay for food, electricity, heat. Im in New England, it gets cold in winter our average heating cost is around $150 a month.

They now have $200 to pay for food for a family of 3, that is doable I guess if you shop right.

Our fictional family is now broke and without electricity, or health insurance, or $ for gas for the car they cant insure,repair, or make payments on.



Rick, I have no problem with you paying someone $10 an hour. I also work days in a kitchen, our dishwashers get paid $10 an hour.

The differnece being our expectations of a $10 an hour employee. You seem to think that that wage is something that an adult can be happy or proud of. Like someone is supposed to be grateful to you for paying them what they cant survive off of.

Be real man, the numbers dont add up.. You pay a lowball wage that an adult cant live on and all you are ever going to get for employees is the bottom of the barrel.

Again Rick I accuse you of the very thing you accuse me of "entitlement" You seem to think you entitled to quality people for non quality pay.
 

ink the world

Well-Known Member
Oh Rick I thought I should add this NONE of my employees or myself qualify for any kind of government assistance. We all make too much..

Can you say the same Rick? If you pay an adult w/ a family $10 an hour I can guarantee they are receiving some government assistance, be it food stamps, section 8 health insurance. Thats the reality of it Rick, you are adding to the ranks of people sucking from the governments tit.

Socialist!!! :-)
 

fulbright

Member
Oh Rick I thought I should add this NONE of my employees or myself qualify for any kind of government assistance. We all make too much..

Can you say the same Rick? If you pay an adult w/ a family $10 an hour I can guarantee they are receiving some government assistance, be it food stamps, section 8 health insurance. Thats the reality of it Rick, you are adding to the ranks of people sucking from the governments tit.

Socialist!!! :-)
Perhaps adults with families shouldn't be working $10/hr jobs. If you're 30 years old with a wife and kid, but still flipping burgers at Burger King, do think you deserve a $20/hr wage?

Wages are based off of the job done, not the person who did it. Should a man with a family complain of low wages in an entry level field?

While it's true that some employers will be more liberal with the wages they pay their employees (even entry-level ones), some businesses run on a very small margin of profit and are barely scraping by.
 

ink the world

Well-Known Member
Perhaps adults with families shouldn't be working $10/hr jobs. If you're 30 years old with a wife and kid, but still flipping burgers at Burger King, do think you deserve a $20/hr wage?

Wages are based off of the job done, not the person who did it. Should a man with a family complain of low wages in an entry level field?

While it's true that some employers will be more liberal with the wages they pay their employees (even entry-level ones), some businesses run on a very small margin of profit and are barely scraping by.
Of course I dont think that a 30 year old deserves more $ for an entry level job. Thats not my point at all.

My point is that when you are paying someone $10 an hour you are more than likely not gonna find a dependable adult. Rick seems to think that he as an employer should be able to find a solid hard working adult thats willing to work for $10 an hour and that that person should kiss hiss glorious ass for allowing them the pleasure of being in his employ.

I own a business, im certainly not suggesting giving the business away to employee salaries. I'm suggesting that giving a little bit more of the pie to employees is a good thing. Give them some incentive and personal stake in the business's growth and they will be far more productive. Look at it as an investment.
 

Rob Roy

Well-Known Member
Of course I dont think that a 30 year old deserves more $ for an entry level job. Thats not my point at all.

My point is that when you are paying someone $10 an hour you are more than likely not gonna find a dependable adult. Rick seems to think that he as an employer should be able to find a solid hard working adult thats willing to work for $10 an hour and that that person should kiss hiss glorious ass for allowing them the pleasure of being in his employ.

I own a business, im certainly not suggesting giving the business away to employee salaries. I'm suggesting that giving a little bit more of the pie to employees is a good thing. Give them some incentive and personal stake in the business's growth and they will be far more productive. Look at it as an investment.
Your last paragraph makes alot of sense. It is one of the basic concepts of the free market system.

Extrapolating that suggestion out just a bit you might even agree that, when a person is given everything their incentive sometimes suffers.

When a person sees an opportunity to apply their labor and efforts towards something that they will own or benefit from, they tend to do a better job.



On another note, Rick White has taken alot of grief here. I don't always support his positions but one thing I think we should all recognize, he didn't just complain about his lot in life.

Regardless of how you might feel about him, it does appear he made something for himself from humble beginnings.
That is commendable, despite his sometimes controversial positions on some things we discuss here.

Ultimately showing responsibilty for improving your lot in life is something worth emulating, even if you don't like the messenger, the message is a good one.
 

max420thc

Well-Known Member
I wonder if its because of people like you that offer poverty level wages to 30 year old people...its called the working poor Rick.
in a capitalist economy business compete with other business for available work in the market . the company that can deliver the best product at the cheapest price WINS.
if a company has lower over head it can deliver goods and services cheaper than a union company for example paying 50 bucks a hour in wages and bennies. in other words the union workers and union companys would go out of business because they can not compete in the market place do to overhead and expense.
labor is the same in a free market economy the laborer competes with other laborers . who ever can deliver the cheapest highest quality product to the market wins .it pays a man who obtain skills from a very early age to make himself more valuable and marketable.
if a man does not do that then his demand of a higher wage really isnt warranted .would you higher a brilliant highly skilled man for 25 bucks a hour or a dumb shit for 25 bucks a hour?
because of the high cost of doing business in the USA they business leaves the country ..why? because the US competes for business enterprise with every other country in the world. the country who can support the cheapest made highest quality products to the market wins.
untill the US government gets its foot off of the neck of private enterprise you will see no job growth in this country
matter of fact you will see MORE companys and investment capital leave the country.
 

jeffchr

Well-Known Member
Thank Reagan for killing off and weakening unions to the point that jobs that used to be able to support a family now barely support one person. The republicons philosophy drives masses into poverty while enriching the few at the top. When Bush became president the top 8% owned 90% of the countries wealth, 8 years later the top 4% owned 93% of it.
as the economic gap widens and the middle class begins to dissolve, so goes taxes.

it is not unreasonable to expect that people who can't afford to live should pay no taxes. their income and wealth has found it's way to the upper tiers of the american economy. let those fuckers pay the tax - they've go the money.
 

jeffchr

Well-Known Member
Perhaps adults with families shouldn't be working $10/hr jobs. If you're 30 years old with a wife and kid, but still flipping burgers at Burger King, do think you deserve a $20/hr wage?

Wages are based off of the job done, not the person who did it. Should a man with a family complain of low wages in an entry level field?

While it's true that some employers will be more liberal with the wages they pay their employees (even entry-level ones), some businesses run on a very small margin of profit and are barely scraping by.
perhaps they don't have a choice. not perhaps. but definitely, they don't have a choice. or they wouldn't be there. so what's your point, they should pay more taxes?
 

RickWhite

Well-Known Member
Again, what is your definition of a successful person?
What difference does it make? There are many definitions of success. If I had to define success in general terms, I would say that any good person who builds for their self a healthy and happy life is successful.

Failure however, is easy to define. Any person who thinks that other people ought to be responsible for their support is a failure. Anyone who refuses to take responsibility for their own life and happiness is a failure. And mostly, anyone who refuses to look in the mirror and to own their own shortcomings and self limiting beliefs is a failure. Does this sound like someone you know?

Ah, but you were hoping to draw me into a trap in which I would find myself in the impossible position of trying to define success. Sorry to disappoint you.
 

Mcgician

Well-Known Member
You mean people like me who provide jobs for people. As opposed to losers like you who are a drain on the economy and contribute nothing?

Since when is $10 per hour an unfair wage? Perhaps if you didn't have such an exaggerated sense of entitlement you wouldn't be such a whining loser.
This made me laugh. A lot. Hahaha.
 

blazin256

Well-Known Member
doesn't the fed take out taxes every pay check? they do for me. and trust me i dont get it all back.
 
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