Hamas offensive against Israel

amneziaHaze

Well-Known Member
i dont get whats the end goal of sending rockets to civilian houses?its just a call to war. you dont destroy anything usefull.at max people get scared and move away from the borders. but that would not help much it would just be a nice place to start a war
 

k0rps

Well-Known Member
"Why did Hamas attack now?
Hamas’s move was triggered by three factors. First, the policies of the far-right Israeli government enabling settler violence in the occupied West Bank and Jerusalem led to a sense of desperation among Palestinians and growing demands for a reaction. At the same time, the rising tensions in the West Bank caused by these policies necessitated the shift of Israeli forces away from the south and into the north to guard the settlements. This gave Hamas both a justification and an opportunity to attack.

Second, the Hamas leadership felt compelled to act due to the acceleration of Arab-Israeli normalisation. In recent years, this process further diminished the significance of the Palestinian issue for Arab leaders who became less keen on pressuring Israel on this matter.

If a Saudi-Israeli normalisation deal had been concluded, it would have been a turning point in the Arab-Israeli conflict, which may have eliminated the already weak chances of a two-state solution. This was also part of Hamas’s calculations.

Third, Hamas was emboldened after it managed to repair its ties with Iran. In recent years, the movement had to reconsider the political position it assumed in the wake of the Arab Spring in 2011, in opposition to Iran and its ally, the Syrian regime.

Hezbollah Secretary-General Hassan Nasrallah has said that he was personally involved in improving the relations between Hamas and Damascus. A Hamas delegation visited Damascus in October 2022 and its political bureau chief Ismail Haniyeh travelled to Beirut in April and Tehran in June. Just last month, Nasrallah hosted the Secretary-General of the Palestinian Islamic Jihad Ziad al-Nakhalah and the deputy chief of Hamas’s political bureau Saleh al-Arouri."

"What is Hamas’s end game?
Three days into Hamas’s surprising and overwhelming attack, it is not clear what its end game is and what it can do to reap long-term benefits. Its priority has seemed to be to take both military and civilian hostages to help deter aggressive Israeli retaliation and later exchange them for Palestinian prisoners in Israeli jails.

However, Israel does not appear to be deterred. Hamas spokesperson Abu Ubaida has said that Israeli bombardment has killed four Israeli citizens held in Gaza. He has also warned that the movement will start killing hostages if Israel strikes civilian homes in Gaza without warning; this might backfire against Hamas if implemented.

The Hamas leadership has said that the objectives of the attacks are ending “Israeli violations”, securing the release of Palestinian prisoners, and “returning to the project of establishing a state”. Hamas may be able to secure a prisoner swap deal with Israel, although, in the past, many of those released from Israeli prisons had been quickly rearrested. But the group does not have a clear roadmap for moving forward on “establishing a state” and it cannot have one separately from the Palestinian Authority in the occupied West Bank."

"What is next?
Israel has struggled to recover from the attack. It has intensified its bombardment of the Gaza Strip and announced a total blockade on the coastal enclave, turning off electricity and blocking humanitarian aid. Netanyahu’s government was already facing domestic turmoil before the attack due to its judicial reforms; its stability will now be tested even further.

Israel will have to decide whether to undertake a ground invasion and if it is worth the military and political costs. Whether it proceeds with it or not, sooner or later its military operation, including the excessive bombardment of the strip, will have to come to an end. At that point, Israel will have to ask for Egypt to mediate some kind of conclusion of this escalation and a deal to exchange prisoners.

When the Israeli assault ends, Hamas, which has gained more legitimacy in Gaza and the West Bank with its operation, will also face the challenge of translating it into policies and governance that would serve the Palestinians in the long term.

The United States, for its part, will have to put its normalisation mediation plans on hold for now. US Secretary of State Antony Blinken was expected in Israel and Saudi Arabia later this month to discuss normalisation talks, but his plans have changed and now include a visit to Jordan.

Given the current public mood in the Arab world after the Gaza attack, it would be too complicated to advance talks on a Saudi-Israeli deal. Most probably, these talks will be put on the shelf by the Saudis in the short term but not necessarily fully cancelled.

These developments work in Iran’s favour. With the progress of Arab-Israeli normalisation halted, Tehran can now pressure the US into re-entering a nuclear deal of some kind that would take some of the sanctions pressure off the Iranian economy.

Whatever mediation happens between Israel and Hamas eventually, it is unlikely to address the root causes of the conflict. There does not seem to be any political will within Israel to address issues like the imprisonment of Palestinians, the freezing of Palestinian funds, the dire socioeconomic conditions in Gaza and the occupied West Bank, or the continuing settlement expansion. This means the Palestinian-Israeli conflict will continue to fester and produce cycles of violence."

Fairuz - Zahrat Al-Mada'en

Most splendid of cities
For you, city of prayer, I pray.
For you, most splendid of dwellings,
flower among cities,
Jerusalem, city of prayer, I pray.
Our eyes turn towards you every day,
Taking in the colonnades of the places of prayer,
Embracing the old churches,
And wiping grief from the mosques.
[We recall] the Night of Ascension,
the path of those who went up to heaven,
And our eyes turn towards you every day, and I pray.

The infant is in the grotto and his mother is Mary — two faces are crying,
for those who have been evicted,
for children without a home,
for those who tried to defend the city and were killed in their doorways,
for peace has been martyred in the land of peace!
And justice fell in the doorways.
When Jerusalem fell,
Love drew itself back into the hearts of the world and war established itself.
The infant is in the grotto and his mother is Mary — two faces are crying and I pray.

Irrepressible anger is coming and I am all faith!
Irrepressible anger is coming and I shall move beyond grief.
Anger is coming from all directions, it is coming on a fearsome steed,
And our anger is as profuse as the face of God!
The gate of our city will not be locked – for I am on my way to pray.
I shall hammer on the gates and I shall open those gates.
And you, River Jordan, will bathe my face in your holy water.
And you, River Jordan, will erase all the footprints of the barbarians.
Anger is coming from all directions, it is coming on a fearsome steed,
And it will defeat those who wield power!
The Temple Mount is ours. Jerusalem is ours.
With our own hands we shall restore the splendour of Jerusalem,
With our own hands peace is coming to Jerusalem
 

k0rps

Well-Known Member
War Crimes
"... prohibits actions such as the destruction of property not justified by military necessity and intentionally directing attacks against civilizan population or civilian objects.

Violations of this protocol may constitute war crimes.. If proven.."

A recent update of the unjustified destruction displayed in Gaza.
 
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printer

Well-Known Member
“Palestinian factions undertake operations like this one to keep the Palestine issue alive and to prevent any outside power from chipping away at the quest for Palestinian sovereignty,” said UCLA Middle Eastern history expert James Gelvin. “This is what Saudi-Israeli normalization threatens to do.” Experts have pointed to the potential Saudi deal, in particular, as a move that would have undercut Palestinians’ fight for statehood by further legitimizing Israel.

Ultimately, Hamas is eager to maintain its own power and to keep the fight for a Palestinian state a chief priority for its allies abroad, including Arab countries like Qatar and Turkey. If Israel is launching brutal military attacks on Gaza and civilians, like those that killed dozens at markets, schools, and hospitals on Monday, it makes it much harder for other Arab countries to normalize their relationship with the country (though it also harms the people Hamas is meant to govern).

As a Hamas spokesperson told Al Jazeera, these attacks were a decisive “message” to other Arab countries that they should not normalize ties with Israel.

One other thing Hamas wants is for its vision for Palestine to win out over that of its chief rival, Fatah.

Hamas and Fatah differ most notably in their approach to recognizing Israeli statehood and in their approach to advocating for a Palestinian state. Fatah recognizes an Israeli state while Hamas does not. Fatah also supports diplomacy in its quest for an independent Palestinian state, while Hamas supports armed resistance in pursuit of this goal.

Support for the PA among Palestinians has dipped in recent years as it has offered limited condemnation and response to Israeli violence, especially ongoing settler violence that has seen Israelis take land by force. The PA has also suffered from weaker, aging leadership — one of Fatah’s founders, Yasser Arafat, led the PA until his death in 2004; Abbas, now 87, has been in charge since 2005.


That has led many Palestinians, especially among the younger generation, to feel that Fatah is out of touch, and it has allowed Hamas to grow its backing among some who support its more aggressive focus on an independent state.
 

k0rps

Well-Known Member
"Why is the suffering of innocent Israeli civilians from being attacked by Hamas being ignored?"

Russell Brand interview with message from Gabor Maté, holocaust survivor
 

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
Looks like Bebe wrote the hostages off and is going in guns blazing and bombs dropping.


Richard Engel: We are preparing for a ground war here

36,406 views Oct 11, 2023 #Israel #Hamas #Gaza
NBC News Chief Foreign Correspondent Richard Engel reports from near the Gaza border in Israel on Israel's defense minister saying Israel will go into the Gaza Strip in a ground invasion.
 

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member

Harvard president breaks silence after student groups blame Israel for attack

234,734 views Oct 11, 2023 #Harvard #Israel #Hamas
Following backlash, Harvard President Claudine Gay in a new statement condemned Hamas' attack on Israel.
 

printer

Well-Known Member
"Why is the suffering of innocent Israeli civilians from being attacked by Hamas being ignored?"

Russell Brand interview with message from Gabor Maté, holocaust survivor
What I got from the first video, she says Israel is at fault being the occupier but when the topic of Hamas's goal is the destruction of Israel she deflects and repeats what the Palestinians are living under. Then when she says that a single state is the solution she ignores the 2,000+ years of history where Jews did not have their own land and suffered at the hands of others living in that country.

The second vid, generally agree with him.
 

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
If they signed it, they own it and should defend their position. Not everybody who brings nuance to the table in this discussion of a long running conflict is an antisemite, but they signed onto something written by someone with a dog in the fight. Terrorism and atrocities are never justified, especially against women and children and they made videos of the horror for a reason. They had the same basic reasons for hijacking airliners decades ago and committing acts of international terrorism all along the way. Create outrage and you will get an unpleasant result; I mean look what such actions and leadership have done for the Palestinians over the decades, are they winning or losing?

Doxing is assault really, an attack for holding a POV and IMO an overreaction, but we sign petitions and public documents to voice our support for certain issues or causes, be careful of what you sign and be careful about who you call an antisemite.

 

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
If they signed it, they own it and should defend their position. Not everybody who brings nuance to the table in this discussion of a long running conflict is an antisemite, but they signed onto something written by someone with a dog in the fight. Terrorism and atrocities are never justified, especially against women and children and they made videos of the horror for a reason. They had the same basic reasons for hijacking airliners decades ago and committing acts of international terrorism all along the way. Create outrage and you will get an unpleasant result; I mean look what such actions and leadership have done for the Palestinians over the decades, are they winning or losing?

Doxing is assault really, an attack for holding a POV and IMO an overreaction, but we sign petitions and public documents to voice our support for certain issues or causes, be careful of what you sign and be careful about who you call an antisemite.

Part of the need for nuance is the very wide range of beliefs and sentiments that do not show in the binary y/n act of signing such a thing.
It can range from having a genuine humanitarian concern for the millions suffering bad conditions in the Strip … to ideological hatred of the existence of the state and territory of Israel and plain antisemitism.

I hope the people who did that truck face charges.
 

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
Part of the need for nuance is the very wide range of beliefs and sentiments that do not show in the binary y/n act of signing such a thing.
It can range from having a genuine humanitarian concern for the millions suffering bad conditions in the Strip … to ideological hatred of the existence of the state and territory of Israel and plain antisemitism.

I hope the people who did that truck face charges.
There is a price to be paid for everything and Israel's history with the Palestinians is an example of that, a cowboys and Indians style conquest of the middle east. For every action there is a reaction and now Hamas and a lot of innocent Palestinians are gonna feel the reaction from that "made for TV" atrocity and provocation. I don't think Gaza will exist after this, where the people who were living there go is the only question IMO.
 

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
Part of the need for nuance is the very wide range of beliefs and sentiments that do not show in the binary y/n act of signing such a thing.
It can range from having a genuine humanitarian concern for the millions suffering bad conditions in the Strip … to ideological hatred of the existence of the state and territory of Israel and plain antisemitism.

I hope the people who did that truck face charges.
How did America and the western allies win the peace after WW2? How was the conflict in Northern Ireland ended? There is your answer, Israel won the war but lost the peace and with a shift to the right in Israel, it won't improve.
 

printer

Well-Known Member
Egypt warned Israel of Hamas strike days before attack: GOP chair
House Foreign Affairs Committee Chairman Michael McCaul (R-Texas) says that lawmakers were told Egypt had warned Israel of a potential attack from Palestinian militant group Hamas before its deadly strike over the weekend.
“We know that Egypt had warned the Israelis three days prior that an event like this could happen,” McCaul said Wednesday following a closed-door intelligence briefing with lawmakers about the ongoing conflict.

He did not provide any specific details about the warning, but he noted it appeared there was a failure of intelligence from both Israel and the U.S. government.

“We’ve heard from the administration, there seems to be a failure of intelligence as well. We’re not quite sure how we missed it. We’re not quite sure how Israel missed it,” McCaul said.

Earlier this week, The Associated Press (AP) said it was told by an Egyptian intelligence official that Egypt — which often serves as a mediator between Israel and Hamas — spoke repeatedly with Israelis about “something big” without elaborating.
According to the AP, the official said the Israelis were “focused on the West Bank and played down the threat from Gaza.” Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s hard-line government had placed a heavy focus on the expansion of West Bank settlements upon being sworn into office last December.

“We have warned them an explosion of the situation is coming, and very soon, and it would be big. But they underestimated such warnings,” said the Egyptian official, who spoke with the AP on the condition of anonymity.
The AP reported Israel was also undermined in part by Netanyahu’s judicial overhaul plans, which sparked controversy and protests across the country by those who call the proposal a threat to democratic values. The changes would permit the government to overrule Supreme Court decisions and grant the executive branch more power to appoint justices.

Netanyahu was warned several times by defense chiefs and former leaders of Israeli intelligence agencies that his overhaul plans were taking away from the cohesion of the country’s security services, according to the AP.
Fighting has raged since Hamas’s initial attacks Saturday, with Israeli forces launching a major counteroffensive against the group in a series of airstrikes on Gaza.

The Israeli military has said more than 1,200 Israelis — including civilians and soldiers — have been killed, with another 3,000 wounded as of Thursday. In Gaza, an estimated 1,354 Palestinians have died and 6,049 others were injured, according to the Gaza Health Ministry.

The deaths also include at least 27 Americans.
 

bursto

Well-Known Member
Looks like Bebe wrote the hostages off and is going in guns blazing and bombs dropping.


Richard Engel: We are preparing for a ground war here

36,406 views Oct 11, 2023 #Israel #Hamas #Gaza
NBC News Chief Foreign Correspondent Richard Engel reports from near the Gaza border in Israel on Israel's defense minister saying Israel will go into the Gaza Strip in a ground invasion.
i agree this looks bad for the hostages
 

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
An example of a man with no heart stumbling around in the dark with no light to guide him, or even a brain. I think Donald might have fucked himself on this one and left his magats swinging in the breeze. The Palestinians have grievances, but Hamas is a terrorist organization, and this is in the wake of an atrocity that will likely cause a war when Israel seeks retribution against individuals and governments. Donald's increasing problem is that when he shoots himself in both feet, they are often in his mouth. He got on the wrong side of this mess in a hurry and will pay for it, so will his magats who mouth his lines in congress. Putin is smart, Hamas is smart, Xi is smart...

Letting this guy run around loose while under indictment with his world crashing down around him is causing him to destroy himself in public and he certainly appears to be doing just that.


'He's a fool': Christie blasts Trump for praising Hezbollah

18,317 views Oct 13, 2023 #CNN #News
2024 GOP presidential candidate Chris Christie accused Donald Trump of giving "aid and comfort to Israel's adversary" after the former president said Hezbollah was "very smart" during a speech.
 
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