having tons of trouble and really considering dumping my whole garden and starting over

stop nutes! Your soil already has nutes in it so you shouldnt need any veg nutes at all. Ive tried soil like that and it sucks. besides having time release nutes in it it had a wetting agent that seemed like it never dried out, and the soil went acidic real quick. switched to FFOF and it makes a world of diff. You wont be able to alter PH with just water. repot into some good soil, and let them grow until you want to flower, then you can give bloom nutes.
BTW, I use FF big bloom from seedlings through flower and I have two 5 ft plants almost done, that have only ever had two feedings of grow big. It is a weed but most noobs including myself, over love their weeds to death.

I have had many disasters, this doesn't look like one to me. Just "water" it and you'll be good. I have taken a plant all the way to harvest with some good soil and water.

Go with a brand a lot of people use and are happy with. Get rid of that time release. Or even go as far to making and amending your own soil. that way u can just feed water. and be done with it. get a good drainage pot, and then just water everyday to every other day depending on the pot size, and how big you want it. and how long you are vegging for.

u dont have to dump your whole garden, just make some soil or buy some soil. something that seems to be fairly popular, or even fox farm. ocean forest or something. and then transplant. I would personally go with ocean forest or happy frog.

DonAlejandroVega said:

you used a poor medium, and knew you were; do I have this right?

*Jacque Cousteau's off back of boat*

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I didn't know it was THAT bad at the time, and honestly don, and I know you can't seem to grasp this idea, I wasn't planning on spending hundreds of dollars on ANYTHING when I planted these seeds. I happened to become more involved with this process as I went along and found out that it can actually be a fun hobby. You can bet your ass the medium will be better next time, but it, and you can't seem to grasp this one either, is not an easy thing to throw plants away. I'm thinking about doing what you said in another threat and transplanting these into some ocean forest or something, washing the rootball really well and all, but I've got to get them stable because the shock of that at this point would, at best, cause them all to go male, but probably kill them.

could someone tell me how foxfarm ocean forest or happy frog are any different. They BOTH say they are pre-nutes as well.

Like some other people said just use straight water for a couple weeks..
It's easy once you see a bottom leaf getting yellow tips (N deficiency) then that's when you start feeding Veg nutes

Easy fix..--->go organic

I'm in the same boat bro, just have to take the lesson.

It suck, but at least there's a ton of people alway on hand here!

also, don't worry about he ph of your run off, all that tells you is the ph of your run off, ie, it's a worthless number..
as to why people like fox farm better, even though it has pre mixed nutes? fox farm is organic...
i'd not say give up on the mg, i know a lot of people love to slam it, but i've also seen a lot of people here use it with success, like qwizoking for one..

racerboy71 said:

also, don't worry about he ph of your run off, all that tells you is the ph of your run off, ie, it's a worthless number..
as to why people like fox farm better, even though it has pre mixed nutes? fox farm is organic...
i'd not say give up on the mg, i know a lot of people love to slam it, but i've also seen a lot of people here use it with success, like qwizoking for one..

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And me for another. The ONLY thing bad about it is it burns young roots but in time they still grow and become better able to handle the rich soil. I like Organic Choice the best as it doesn't burn at all.

dannyboy602 said:

And me for another. The ONLY thing bad about it is it burns young roots but in time they still grow and become better able to handle the rich soil. I like Organic Choice the best as it doesn't burn at all.

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i agree, i've seen very young plants get burnt, but they almost always tend to grow out of it from all i've seen..

They absolutely do. It's just when guys see the burn they freak out and get panicky.

If you have to go the 'big box store' route, Promix is the way to go. No nutes, perlite, lime(to help keep ph stable), and beneficials already in it. Performs better then soil too. Once your plant is working on it's first set of real leaves hit them with 200ppm base nutes. Then, utilizing wet/dry cycles do feed, water, feed, water. Either wait for the plants to start yellowing slightly and up their feed, or SLOWLY increase the amount if growth seams kinda slow. If you see some burn, back off or try Feed, water, 1/2strength, water, feed, etc. Super simple and produces AMAZING results. OH and in promix ph should be slightly lower then soil-6-6.5.

Another benefit of promix is that it can be ammended if you choose to go the 'organic' route. I always steer people in the promix direction if 'big box' stores are the only option.

I hate to say it, but your plants look hungry, even in that medium. The NPK values you listed are SUPER minimal, and I see deficiencies, not burn.

You should UP the feed on one of your plants and STOP feeding the other and report back on which worked out.

Did you guys see the NPK values he listed? That's like NOTHING. I've been doing this awhile and not ALL soil is like FFoF. If there is practically no nutes in your soil(which given the NPK values you listed, there isn't), and plants are as big as yours, and they are showing MULTIPLE deficiencies, wouldn't you think they are hungry? I'm not trying to argue with anyone, but what makes you all think it's over feeding given the medium he described?

Talk to puertoricandisel-he just had the same problem and everyone told him to stop feeding/they were too young to feed even though he was in a peat based medium. He listend to me, upped their feed, and they bounced back in less then a week. I see this all the time-plants showing deficiencies and all the soil guys chime in with ridiculousness like plants don't need any food for WEEKS and it must be the nutes causing the problems, even though they show deficiencies no sign of burn. Plants need nutrients from day one-it's either already present in your soil, or you have to give it to them.

Try sprouting a seed in a rockwool cube and only giving it water-It won't survive longer then a couple weeks-and it won't really get any further then it's first set of leaves before it yellows and dies.

Again, tap water often comes out over 200ppm and I think when people add nutes to that early on they run into trouble. If you start with RO or distilled and keep it under 200 I PROMISE you will never burn a plant(unless you keep letting the medium dry out and salts start building up).

There lies another problem-if you tap is over say 100ppm and it's mostly cal and mag it's hard to add what your plants actually need(NPK + other macro and micro nutes) early on without sending your ppm too high.

I always recommend getting some RO or distilled water from the store for the first couple weeks until your plants can handle your base nutes + the ppm of your tap. Ro or distilled, ppm under 200 and your plants will thank you for it.

Hope this helps.

Waying in. Got to keep it simple in the beginning or forever. Basic mix and add perlite if needed, bit of bagged compost or worm castings. Some bone meal and fish fertilizer and away she grow. And your plants don't look that bad really,finish them off for sure. I'd like to see all the 26 watters replaced with at least 40 watts ( actual) the more the merrier. Hell I'm a huge fan of 150 watt Hps security lights in the mix. Work great and cheap too. Persevere, the rewards are nice. Good luck!

Squidbilly said:

Did you guys see the NPK values he listed? That's like NOTHING. I've been doing this awhile and not ALL soil is like FFoF. If there is practically no nutes in your soil(which given the NPK values you listed, there isn't), and plants are as big as yours, and they are showing MULTIPLE deficiencies, wouldn't you think they are hungry? I'm not trying to argue with anyone, but what makes you all think it's over feeding given the medium he described?

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That's what's been baffling me this whole time is that I have got burnt tips after I leeched the soil. I wanted to do a good flush before adding ANY nutes to this mix. Despite appearances I've been trying to stay very conservative with this grow. And that's just it, the NPK values are so small I didn't see how it could burn my plants, I thought perhaps the flush had the opposite effect I intended and released a lot of nutes all at once, but it could also have just washed them out. See what I have now is:

-slight drooping (cupping on one plant) - not really too bad]
-yellowing bottom leaves on one(cupping one) and yellow/brown tips on another
-had brown spots but honestly think it is burn from foliar feeding under the light
-fucking purple, almost like blood red fan leaf stems. also like purple veins on the hard stems. This issue particularly bothers me, but ppl seem to think its ALWAYS a calcium def.

other than that things are ok. Doesn't seem as hopeless as maybe a week ago. I'm giving them water and cal-mag only right now and I'm thinking about trying the Grow Big(high N) on the one with the yellowing bottom leaves on the next watering.

What do you guys think about using cal-mag with every watering?

-yellowing bottom leaves on one(cupping one) and yellow/brown tips on another
-had brown spots but honestly think it is burn from foliar feeding under the light
-fucking purple, almost like blood red fan leaf stems. also like purple veins on the hard stems. This issue particularly bothers me, but ppl seem to think its ALWAYS a calcium def.

^^^your plants are trying to tell you to FEED them, and not just cal/mag. Hit them with a light dose of base nutes and they will start to bounce back.

The drooping leaves are probably from over watering, underwatering, or lack of o2 in the root zone. I think someone else already mentioned adding some extra perlite next time might improve this.

This is my opinion and I'm sticking to it.

ebenezerfagglegold said:

That's what's been baffling me this whole time is that I have got burnt tips after I leeched the soil. I wanted to do a good flush before adding ANY nutes to this mix. Despite appearances I've been trying to stay very conservative with this grow. And that's just it, the NPK values are so small I didn't see how it could burn my plants, I thought perhaps the flush had the opposite effect I intended and released a lot of nutes all at once, but it could also have just washed them out. See what I have now is:

-slight drooping (cupping on one plant) - not really too bad]
-yellowing bottom leaves on one(cupping one) and yellow/brown tips on another
-had brown spots but honestly think it is burn from foliar feeding under the light
-fucking purple, almost like blood red fan leaf stems. also like purple veins on the hard stems. This issue particularly bothers me, but ppl seem to think its ALWAYS a calcium def.

other than that things are ok. Doesn't seem as hopeless as maybe a week ago. I'm giving them water and cal-mag only right now and I'm thinking about trying the Grow Big(high N) on the one with the yellowing bottom leaves on the next watering.

What do you guys think about using cal-mag with every watering?

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sounds like you have a pretty good handle on things. Even though the NPK value is low, you flushed lots of water through it causing lots of nutes at once, due to the time (water) release nutes. Repot to good soil and start over, you dont even need to wash the root ball infact I would advise against it. I have cal-mag and only use it when I see a mag def. FFOF does not have time release nutes, only organic fert. I have never burnt a seedling with it. KISS is a gardners best friend. (keep it simple stupid)