Help 100amp service will this be safe

MustGro

MustGro

Well-Known Member
osowhom said:
thats fine electricity is color blind and 12/2 with a ground is perfect but to call it proffesional when theres not even a cover plate on the receptacle lol is a stretch
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Well now he did leave it up to me to put faceplates on the receptacles. He didn't supply a thing so no weather proof boxes is on me. Good idea though; I can fix that. I mentioned steel conduit to him when he came to do the inspection and he said it wasn't required unless it was going to be laying on the floor.
I only had 2 choices for 12/2 wire; red jacket and yellow jacket. No white. Surprised me; lots of white in 14 gauge but none in 12.
Keep in mind this is a working electrician who wires up grow rooms on the side for friends and the odd new person like me. Maybe he let some things slide like faceplates but I was right in there with them so he knew I had a little bit of skill to finish the little things. As long as the big stuff is OK I'll be fine.
Great points though.
 
MustGro

MustGro

Well-Known Member
Herb & Suds said:
There is no power savings in 220 vs 120 voltage just to be clear
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I agree and mentioned that to the electrician. He disagreed with me. Here's why. We all buy kilowatts and it doesn't matter if you use their power with 120 or 240 volts pushing it; you just use half the amps with 240. BUT higher voltages are more efficient. Power is sent along main lines at 10 000 volts because it is more efficient. The electrician maintained that two 120 volt feeds into one appliance will save you money on your power bill. Might be small but it was hard to argue with him. I'd have to buy too much new stuff and I grow hydro so I went 120.
 
osowhom

osowhom

Well-Known Member
MustGro said:
I agree and mentioned that to the electrician. He disagreed with me. Here's why. We all buy kilowatts and it doesn't matter if you use their power with 120 or 240 volts pushing it; you just use half the amps with 240. BUT higher voltages are more efficient. Power is sent along main lines at 10 000 volts because it is more efficient. The electrician maintained that two 120 volt feeds into one appliance will save you money on your power bill. Might be small but it was hard to argue with him. I'd have to buy too much new stuff and I grow hydro so I went 120.
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now grow some monsters
 
Renfro

Renfro

Well-Known Member
PJ Diaz said:
That's not necessarily true. It depends on what lights you're running. If you are running LED's, your drivers will run more efficiently on 240V or 277V, compared to 120V.

View attachment 4790782
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I have looked at Meanwell drivers and they are a little less efficient at 240 volts than at 120. I think this is because the driver has to change the voltage to a greater degree to get the lower voltage for the LED's, ie: 24 - 54 volts. With HID ballasts the voltage required for the lamp is higher than the line voltage and they run more efficiently at 240 volts than 120. This is just based on the Meanwell driver specs,
 
PJ Diaz

PJ Diaz

Well-Known Member
Renfro said:
I have looked at Meanwell drivers and they are a little less efficient at 240 volts than at 120. I think this is because the driver has to change the voltage to a greater degree to get the lower voltage for the LED's, ie: 24 - 54 volts. With HID ballasts the voltage required for the lamp is higher than the line voltage and they run more efficiently at 240 volts than 120. This is just based on the Meanwell driver specs,
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I don't understand. Are you saying that what I posed from the driver datasheet was wrong in your real world testing?
 
Renfro

Renfro

Well-Known Member
PJ Diaz said:
I don't understand. Are you saying that what I posed from the driver datasheet was wrong in your real world testing?
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Just the cases I have personally seen it holds true that the driver/ballast is more efficient when the line voltage is closer to the output voltage.

snip.PNG

Yeah that chart shows a variance of output voltages versus the efficiency but I have seen spec sheets that showed a small difference between 120v, 240, 277 input voltage and the lower voltage (120) was more efficient as it was closer to the target output voltage. Either way, the differences are usually small.

As to the usage of higher voltage to deliver a given amount of watts, it's main savings is in copper as higher amperage feeds require larger conductor diameter.
 
PJ Diaz

PJ Diaz

Well-Known Member
Renfro said:
Just the cases I have personally seen it holds true that the driver/ballast is more efficient when the line voltage is closer to the output voltage.

View attachment 4790961

Yeah that chart shows a variance of output voltages versus the efficiency but I have seen spec sheets that showed a small difference between 120v, 240, 277 input voltage and the lower voltage (120) was more efficient as it was closer to the target output voltage. Either way, the differences are usually small.

As to the usage of higher voltage to deliver a given amount of watts, it's main savings is in copper as higher amperage feeds require larger conductor diameter.
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I see your point. I'm not sure that more variance necessarily means less efficiency, but it's something to think about nonetheless.
 
T

trambles

Well-Known Member
Please keep in mind that u are only supposed to run an 80% continuous load on a circuit....that 20% is for surge and a safety margin.
That being said I run a 100 amp sub panel in my grow that also feeds 3 bedrooms in my house.
On that sub I am running 12 600w gavita LED at 240volts, quest pint pint dehu at 240 volts(fucker was 2300 bucks but I needed to spare the amperage over a 120), a 2 12000 btu air conditioners at 120 volts, 7000 btu a/c at 120, and 8 300 watt t5 fluorescents running at 240 volts. I also run a bunch of fans and pumps etc.
So I think u will be ok but u need to run everything at 240 volts. Of course anything else in your house that's electric could be an issue. I converted my stove, water heater from electric to gas and put in a wood stove so I didnt have to run the furnace.
 
T

trambles

Well-Known Member
I also disconnected my house air conditioner from my main panel to feed a 3 ton mini split in my grow room, my grows subpanel wouldve been overloaded.
 
S

SomethingToDo

Active Member
MustGro said:
I just had an electrician in to add some capacity to my room. Only a 100 amp service but he added 80 amps to my room with a "pony panel". I think that's what @osowhom means when he says subpanel, right. I could have wired the subpanel 240 and used half the amps but all my equipment is 120 volt already and I grow in water so 240 is a bigger danger with pumps in reservoirs and such.
The first pic is the panel mounted below my cabinet that holds my 100 amp service. He ran the 12 gauge wire up the wall and out to the receptacles. It was easy because the panel is in my grow room. Second pic is a close up of the panel. There are four 20 amp breakers each attached to about 25 feet of 12 gauge wire with one 4 position receptacle box on the end of each run.
The third pic is a 600 watt HPS on a rain-tite intermatic timer plugged into one of the receptacles. The AC is plugged in and running on the same 20 amp circuit. The fourth pic is a close up of the same receptacle. I mounted it on a piece of 2x6 and used two 3 inch wood screws to attach the unit to a wall stud, but you can move them anywhere. After years of running extension cords; it's pretty cool.
I can post pics of the wiring if you're that brave, but I recommend finding a pro like I did.
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Oh boy, I hate to be the party pooper but this is definitely not up to code. You have exposed wire which should be in conduit. If you're feeding the 100 amp subpanel with the same 12 gauge wire that's a problem too. A 12 gauge wire is only rated up to 25 amps in 75 degrees or warmer and as low as 20 amps at 60 degrees. If you want to run an 80 amp subpanel I would recommend a 4 gauge wire at the minimum. Also since none of this wire is behind the wall the receptacles should also be in a junction box and the wire running to the junction box for the receptacles should also be in conduit. A box like this...


You don't have to use steel conduit. You can use PVC conduit which is what I would recommend since it's easier to cut, lighter, and cheaper. I would love to see the inside of the subpanel and the main panel. Also if any other people with electrical experience want to chime in feel free!
 
Oldreefer

Oldreefer

Well-Known Member
Ponys are a good work-around if done properly. Your wire sizing seems right, it's just the blaring code violations that looks bad. Being an old remodeler, I'm always changing the load in my system in some manner , always with an eye toward amp/wattage draws and supply.
Mine ain't purty either but it works.
 
MustGro

MustGro

Well-Known Member
SomethingToDo said:
Oh boy, I hate to be the party pooper but this is definitely not up to code. You have exposed wire which should be in conduit. If you're feeding the 100 amp subpanel with the same 12 gauge wire that's a problem too. A 12 gauge wire is only rated up to 25 amps in 75 degrees or warmer and as low as 20 amps at 60 degrees. If you want to run an 80 amp subpanel I would recommend a 4 gauge wire at the minimum. Also since none of this wire is behind the wall the receptacles should also be in a junction box and the wire running to the junction box for the receptacles should also be in conduit. A box like this...


You don't have to use steel conduit. You can use PVC conduit which is what I would recommend since it's easier to cut, lighter, and cheaper. I would love to see the inside of the subpanel and the main panel. Also if any other people with electrical experience want to chime in feel free!
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Good points. The wire from the main to the pony panel is not 12 gauge. It could be 4 gauge, about an inch thick but I can't argue any of your other points. I'm happy though. I'll post those pics
 
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