Help, bottom sets of leaves turning yellow.

Sidvicious1

Active Member
Hey buddy

I would probably increase root zone air flow a tad, temps a tad, and holes as you did, and then you can top, that will direct energy into the root system and increase yields later..

Another thing you can do is take a skewer and gently poke holes one inch deep..

Then maybe scratch some aeration into the topsoil to help aerate that poop you added.

You can also ditch the wood chips, they will get all moist and keep soil moist for longer.. When plants are young they love their frequent air exchanges..

For topdress, I would opt for diatomite or pumice or a combo or GRD enriched compost and Biochar


As for your inline, a 6" inline will scrub an 8x8 room no problem .. And that's 64 sq ft. So at 75 ft you only need the smallest step up. 8"

However if going organic, you could go sealed, and let your soil web provide the co2 as well.

Keep up the great work regardless dude.. Cheers
Also I was about to go ahead and top some that needed to slow down a little but if they are flowering I don't want to put stress on them that would cause herming.. so what would u suggest if u were in this position.. it's weird, I havnt been growing long but this is the first time I had a plant start showing it's sex befor before the light kick.
 

Sidvicious1

Active Member
Thanks for all the great info man.. I used that tea and it's working great.. I'm still going to go get a better pump and stone but what I had got the job done.. alright. Things are looking up but I have another question. So the plants in the pic are mendo purps. I also have a few jack h and green c that just sprouted but that's irrelevant right now.. my question is have u ever had plants express there sex befor u cut the lights back.. I have a few of them that are expressing female flowers and I have no idea why.. the light is on 18/6 and I'm a little worried that it might be herming on me from the stress of overwatering early. Do u have any insight on this?? Thanks man
. I know I'm beating the hell out of u with questions, all for a great purpose tho :)
And there not autos..
 

greasemonkeymann

Well-Known Member
Also I was about to go ahead and top some that needed to slow down a little but if they are flowering I don't want to put stress on them that would cause herming.. so what would u suggest if u were in this position.. it's weird, I havnt been growing long but this is the first time I had a plant start showing it's sex befor before the light kick.
i wouldn't sweat the preflowers man, that happens on the majority of cannabis strains, it essentially is indicating that they are mature.
now if they are autos then obviously that is why, but on photos they'll indicate at roughly 40 days or so, less depending on strain and light schedule.
but even at 24/0 they'll indicate sex.
I never induce light change to determine sex, I just let them preflower.

don't worry about topping them, it won't cause them to herm.
not unless they already are herms to begin with
 
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Sidvicious1

Active Member
Yeah man, i didnt enduce light change at all theve been under 18/6 since sprout. I noticed the day i waterd them that 1 was showing but i didnt think much of it but the next morning 8 out of the 9 arr showing there sex and havnt changed light at all.I don't have that much knowledge about autos, i just figured the seed bank I use made a mistake and sent me the wrong seeds.. I called them and they're going to send me another pack so that's good, It just sux starting back over..
 

dubekoms

Well-Known Member
Yeah man, i didnt enduce light change at all theve been under 18/6 since sprout. I noticed the day i waterd them that 1 was showing but i didnt think much of it but the next morning 8 out of the 9 arr showing there sex and havnt changed light at all.I don't have that much knowledge about autos, i just figured the seed bank I use made a mistake and sent me the wrong seeds.. I called them and they're going to send me another pack so that's good, It just sux starting back over..
Are they actually legit flowering or are you just seeing pistils on the nodes?
 

Sidvicious1

Active Member
Yeah, there looking great I just dont know what to think about them showing there sex a little over a month old without me changing light time or anything. Is that somthing that happens sometimes?
 

ACitizenofColorado

Well-Known Member
My 2 cents on increasing AACT activity: add hay (or straw, whichever doesn't have seeds) and diversify your inputs. You may not need to buy anything new.

Regarding the hay, the air stones never worked well for me. They quickly clog; I now use them as weights.

I use the 6 or 7 tubes coming out of my air pump, held on the bottom by a few weights so that the tubes are as close to the bottom as possible. Then I place mats of hay above the tubes. When the bubbles hit the pad of hay, they break into smaller bubbles, thereby increasing dissolved oxygen. As the hay softens, the bubbles penetrate the hay-matt better. The tubes and weights can be positiioned to direct the stream of bubbles in the middle.

There could be some sort of enzyme in the hay that increases foam, indicating increased activity. But I think it's physically breaking the bubbles into countless more tiny bubbles.

I started doing this to innoculate my hay with beneficials. It's not quite sterilizing the hay, which I probably should do prior to adding to the tea. The hay is cut into smaller pieces and used as mulch, ideally with a cover crop, to let my homemade SIPS pot wick water.

All that said, unless that soil is completely exhausted to begin with, that looks like fading due to drying out. Plants that size aren't likely to deplete that amount of soil.

Regarding your recipe, I'll simply share mine. It works well and has yielded my best plants to date. For soil growers, (experts correct me if I'm wrong), apparent nutrient deficiencies can be the result of at least two influences: actual nutrient deficiencies or poor watering habits. I know the later negatively influenced my grows, though I attributed the cause of poor growth to the former. The compost teas I added didn't necessarily hurt, but they also didn't address the underlying problem, which I believe are the inhospitable conditions to prolonged soil dwelling critters. The soil communities can't establish and flourish.

So again, I'll share my recipe, but if I saw that same issue at any other point in veg or flower, my first question would be to check watering and drying cycles.

AACT -

Many say that a small handful of fresh soil (preferably not from outside), often soil from forest detritus, isn't a bad idea. I hate bringing unsterilized media into my grow, and the following inputs provide plenty of microbial cultures to brew a healthy tea.

Oly Mountain Fish compost - anywhere from a handful to an amount covering the bottom of a mug relatively well.
Kelp - same amount
EWC - same amount

Build-a-soil re-amendment mix and mineral mix - small handful, lightly covering the fingers.

Alfalfa (relatively new) - Two scoopfuls of an unidentified size container, approximately 1 Tablespoon.
Liquid Fish Compost - a dash or two, relatively heavy.

Mammoth P- a dash
EM-1 - a dash

2-3 handfuls of hay (preferably mixed while wearing a face mask; same with any powdered ingriedient)

3-3.5ish gallons of water

mix thoroughly

Top with molasses spread like chocolate sauce upon the mat of hay in delicate, precise, critical patterns.

Mix Thoroughly

Sometimes I've added SSTs to the mix, simply because it was easier than adding separately.

Lids and saucers to maintain the environment and capture excess foam are good.

For a plant that size in that pot, (which I presume to be grown legally for sake of peace of mind), 9 times in 10, I'm going to think water cycles are the issue, not nutrients. Grandmaster Level on Youtube has an episode about the importance of watering.

This is probably way more than you wanted.

Honestly, the only thing I want to tell you all about is my new SIPS pot. It's ingenious; it's completely changed my growing! I suffered with the same issue as you: yellowing of young plants prior to transplanting. Often the issue went away initially after transplanting, but those portions that have faded never get better, though new growth may be greener. The yellowing returned in veg and continued into flower, unquestionably hurting yield.

I just had a 3 gallon smart pot with a yellowing plant. Based on the size of the pot and plant, the plant shouldn't have yellowed that much. In my experience, they always did, but inside I always knew they shouldn't. One thing to note, I never observed my roots breaking through the pots. During transplant, after removing the plant from the 3-gallon pot, no roots were evident on the outer portion of the soil mass, begging the question: how could this plant have depleted all the soil, if its roots had not yet hit the outside of the soil?

After being removed from its pot, the 3-gallon plant was transplanted directly into a 10-gallon smart pot with about 7-8 gallons of soil and a thick layer of hay mulch. Azospirillium was generously applied to the root mass for the first time, (creating the one monkey-wrench in my otherwise flawless demonstration of SIPS as a superior system). Within 6 or 7 days, the roots had penetrated the outside of the 10-gallon pot; the plant was at least 1-2 months old prior to transplant, (I think). I now have hundreds of roothairs penetrating my SIPS smart pots, and it's only day 3 or 4 since they first broke through. The growth is better than ever.

The monkey-wrench: the added azospirillium, was also added to every other pot in a top dress. The 5-gallon smart SIPS are doing well. I have one 10-gallon, one 7-gallon and two 5-gallon smart SIPS in a 4x4.

I'll share the design because I think your issue is with which many people struggle.

I use saucer about 1 size too big for the pot; I use commonly available plastic stands for holding pots a few inches off the saucer. My stands have 7 protrusions leading down from the plastic stand, providing the support legs of the stand: one circular mold in the center and 6 smaller legs providing the majority of the support. Coco was sterilized and packed into the molds, creating a wicking column from the bottom of the saucer to the bottom of the smart pots.

I'm experimenting with the best way to water. I generally leave about 1/3-1/2 of a gallon in the saucer, and the plants wick it as they need it. Plants without a sufficient mulch layer may need to be top-watered; all run-off goes into the saucer, where it is later wicked as the plant needs.

No one wants to pay whatever build-a-soil is charging for their SIPS kits, no disrespect intended. People can make them any size they want, depending on their growing style. It's as simple as placing a pot on a stand, and watering from below. Voila!

Dontesla has amazing pictures of water-only bud. Compost teas are awesome. But I don't think that was your issue.

What's your root situation looking like?


What's up man.. I'm trying to make a AACT and I'm sure I don't have a large enoughair pump.. my question is, is it worth even putting on my plants or would it harm them maybe if it's not done corectly..

I put 1 cup ewc, a tea spoon of 3-4-4 organic plant tone fert, a tblspoon of unsulferd molassas, a tblspoon of kelp meal and a tablespoon of alfalfa meal. It's been brewing gore bout 12hrs and there's just a little amount of foam covering the top...

Also what do u think of this recipe for a simple AACT?
Is there anything u would add or take away from it?.. like neem seed meal, havnt herd of anyone adding it.. just trying to find a simple veg and bloom AACT recipe.. I'm still new to living organics.. one of the hardest things I find about it is having to not do anything but water besides a tea here and there and some topdressing.
 

Sidvicious1

Active Member
My 2 cents on increasing AACT activity: add hay (or straw, whichever doesn't have seeds) and diversify your inputs. You may not need to buy anything new.

Regarding the hay, the air stones never worked well for me. They quickly clog; I now use them as weights.

I use the 6 or 7 tubes coming out of my air pump, held on the bottom by a few weights so that the tubes are as close to the bottom as possible. Then I place mats of hay above the tubes. When the bubbles hit the pad of hay, they break into smaller bubbles, thereby increasing dissolved oxygen. As the hay softens, the bubbles penetrate the hay-matt better. The tubes and weights can be positiioned to direct the stream of bubbles in the middle.

There could be some sort of enzyme in the hay that increases foam, indicating increased activity. But I think it's physically breaking the bubbles into countless more tiny bubbles.

I started doing this to innoculate my hay with beneficials. It's not quite sterilizing the hay, which I probably should do prior to adding to the tea. The hay is cut into smaller pieces and used as mulch, ideally with a cover crop, to let my homemade SIPS pot wick water.

All that said, unless that soil is completely exhausted to begin with, that looks like fading due to drying out. Plants that size aren't likely to deplete that amount of soil.

Regarding your recipe, I'll simply share mine. It works well and has yielded my best plants to date. For soil growers, (experts correct me if I'm wrong), apparent nutrient deficiencies can be the result of at least two influences: actual nutrient deficiencies or poor watering habits. I know the later negatively influenced my grows, though I attributed the cause of poor growth to the former. The compost teas I added didn't necessarily hurt, but they also didn't address the underlying problem, which I believe are the inhospitable conditions to prolonged soil dwelling critters. The soil communities can't establish and flourish.

So again, I'll share my recipe, but if I saw that same issue at any other point in veg or flower, my first question would be to check watering and drying cycles.

AACT -

Many say that a small handful of fresh soil (preferably not from outside), often soil from forest detritus, isn't a bad idea. I hate bringing unsterilized media into my grow, and the following inputs provide plenty of microbial cultures to brew a healthy tea.

Oly Mountain Fish compost - anywhere from a handful to an amount covering the bottom of a mug relatively well.
Kelp - same amount
EWC - same amount

Build-a-soil re-amendment mix and mineral mix - small handful, lightly covering the fingers.

Alfalfa (relatively new) - Two scoopfuls of an unidentified size container, approximately 1 Tablespoon.
Liquid Fish Compost - a dash or two, relatively heavy.

Mammoth P- a dash
EM-1 - a dash

2-3 handfuls of hay (preferably mixed while wearing a face mask; same with any powdered ingriedient)

3-3.5ish gallons of water

mix thoroughly

Top with molasses spread like chocolate sauce upon the mat of hay in delicate, precise, critical patterns.

Mix Thoroughly

Sometimes I've added SSTs to the mix, simply because it was easier than adding separately.

Lids and saucers to maintain the environment and capture excess foam are good.

For a plant that size in that pot, (which I presume to be grown legally for sake of peace of mind), 9 times in 10, I'm going to think water cycles are the issue, not nutrients. Grandmaster Level on Youtube has an episode about the importance of watering.

This is probably way more than you wanted.

Honestly, the only thing I want to tell you all about is my new SIPS pot. It's ingenious; it's completely changed my growing! I suffered with the same issue as you: yellowing of young plants prior to transplanting. Often the issue went away initially after transplanting, but those portions that have faded never get better, though new growth may be greener. The yellowing returned in veg and continued into flower, unquestionably hurting yield.

I just had a 3 gallon smart pot with a yellowing plant. Based on the size of the pot and plant, the plant shouldn't have yellowed that much. In my experience, they always did, but inside I always knew they shouldn't. One thing to note, I never observed my roots breaking through the pots. During transplant, after removing the plant from the 3-gallon pot, no roots were evident on the outer portion of the soil mass, begging the question: how could this plant have depleted all the soil, if its roots had not yet hit the outside of the soil?

After being removed from its pot, the 3-gallon plant was transplanted directly into a 10-gallon smart pot with about 7-8 gallons of soil and a thick layer of hay mulch. Azospirillium was generously applied to the root mass for the first time, (creating the one monkey-wrench in my otherwise flawless demonstration of SIPS as a superior system). Within 6 or 7 days, the roots had penetrated the outside of the 10-gallon pot; the plant was at least 1-2 months old prior to transplant, (I think). I now have hundreds of roothairs penetrating my SIPS smart pots, and it's only day 3 or 4 since they first broke through. The growth is better than ever.

The monkey-wrench: the added azospirillium, was also added to every other pot in a top dress. The 5-gallon smart SIPS are doing well. I have one 10-gallon, one 7-gallon and two 5-gallon smart SIPS in a 4x4.

I'll share the design because I think your issue is with which many people struggle.

I use saucer about 1 size too big for the pot; I use commonly available plastic stands for holding pots a few inches off the saucer. My stands have 7 protrusions leading down from the plastic stand, providing the support legs of the stand: one circular mold in the center and 6 smaller legs providing the majority of the support. Coco was sterilized and packed into the molds, creating a wicking column from the bottom of the saucer to the bottom of the smart pots.

I'm experimenting with the best way to water. I generally leave about 1/3-1/2 of a gallon in the saucer, and the plants wick it as they need it. Plants without a sufficient mulch layer may need to be top-watered; all run-off goes into the saucer, where it is later wicked as the plant needs.

No one wants to pay whatever build-a-soil is charging for their SIPS kits, no disrespect intended. People can make them any size they want, depending on their growing style. It's as simple as placing a pot on a stand, and watering from below. Voila!

Dontesla has amazing pictures of water-only bud. Compost teas are awesome. But I don't think that was your issue.

What's your root situation looking like?


Thanks for all the great info man. Yeah, my mix was holding alot of water early and causing me to overwater.. I backed off the water and they slowly bounced back.. my roots were poor but are starting to recover.. here's a pic of a male I got rid of recently..
 

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DonTesla

Well-Known Member
Thanks for all the great info man.. I used that tea and it's working great.. I'm still going to go get a better pump and stone but what I had got the job done.. alright. Things are looking up but I have another question. So the plants in the pic are mendo purps. I also have a few jack h and green c that just sprouted but that's irrelevant right now.. my question is have u ever had plants express there sex befor u cut the lights back.. I have a few of them that are expressing female flowers and I have no idea why.. the light is on 18/6 and I'm a little worried that it might be herming on me from the stress of overwatering early. Do u have any insight on this?? Thanks man
. I know I'm beating the hell out of u with questions, all for a great purpose tho :)
Nothing to worry about especially if they are a month old or more! And no.worries just been busy as hell!
 

Wetdog

Well-Known Member
Yeah, there looking great I just dont know what to think about them showing there sex a little over a month old without me changing light time or anything. Is that somthing that happens sometimes?
Totally normal. NOT showing pre flowers is what happens sometimes and the 2 times it happened for me (I mainly grow from clones), both turned out to be male. But the females from seed always showed pre flowers when 4 to 6 weeks old.
 

greasemonkeymann

Well-Known Member
I use the 6 or 7 tubes coming out of my air pump, held on the bottom by a few weights so that the tubes are as close to the bottom as possible. Then I place mats of hay above the tubes. When the bubbles hit the pad of hay, they break into smaller bubbles, thereby increasing dissolved oxygen. As the hay softens, the bubbles penetrate the hay-matt better. The tubes and weights can be positiioned to direct the stream of bubbles in the middle.


Top with molasses spread like chocolate sauce upon the mat of hay in delicate, precise, critical patterns.
ok, first off, it's nice to see that i'm not the only one that writes massive posts.. gotta love ya there my man
secondly, I love how you described the molasses application. that's some good shit.
and lastly, don't sweat the bubble size man, one thing to remember is that the surface to air contact is what really adds the oxygen to the water, those bubbles are doing that only on a tiny scale, you want surface agitation, it'll become VERY quickly saturated with oxygen, and under atmospheric pressures you can't increase that % regardless of how many bubbles you have anyways.
well unless you use like a pure oxygen tank, oxygen generator or using liquid pure oxygen, but even those will gasoff that extra o2 rather quickly
keeping aquatic fish will teach ya a lil about that stuff (not to mention then you can use your aquarium water to water your plants with, that kicks ass), but a simple water jet really will outperform any bubble-,maker simply by agitating the surface of the water more consistently, just a water jet will work exactly the same in regards to it's ability to oxygenate the water, only at a much faster rate.
you follow what i'm sayin?
 

Sidvicious1

Active Member
So do u think it might be just as or more effective to just take my air tubes and have them just under the water surface agitating it instead of using an airstone? Thanks for all the great info guys! Ur advise has helped me a ton with my first organic grow.. the lady's are doing great!
 

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