High Light efficiency tests (TEKNIK) - 2.47 umol/j CRI 94.2

Randomblame

Randomblame

Well-Known Member
Prawn Connery said:
OK, IES files. These things rock!

I've attached the IES files to this post as a ZIP file - anyone interested can download and unpack all the IES files that are inside (High Lights tested at 1.5A, 2.5A, 3.5A and 4A)

If you don't have Dialux, you can get it here (Windoze only): https://www.dial.de/en/dialux-desktop/download/

Once you've downloaded the software, you can import the IES files and apply them to any configuration you like. You will need to set the luminaire dimensions, which are 380mm x 185mm x 2mm (the board is 415 x 205 x 2, but you need to use the LED emission pattern).

Here's an example of what I've been playing with today. It is an open room (no reflective walls) 2.55m x 0.85m with a pair of Highlights over three stations (850mm x 850mm), similar to what we will be doing with them in a commercial room that is replacing all its 600W HPS lamps with High Lights and 480 drivers.

The boards are paired as they would be in real life, and the current is 3.5A, which is slightly less than you can expect with a HLG-320H-48A driver maxed out (336W to the boards). The height is 450mm (15"). You can see 1020 PPFD directly under the panels bleeding to 850, then 680 and no less than 510 in the middle of each station.

In reality, there are white reflective walls on three sides, and the other side is open to overlapping light from other stations, so the edge figures will improve.

These figures appear to be very much inline with the preliminary PAR mapping we did prior to getting the High Lights gonio tested and mapped. You can create almost any situation with these files and get a great simulation before actual PAR testing (assuming you have a PAR meter).

View attachment 4334742

View attachment 4334737
Click to expand...

Seems I have to reactivate my win7 desktop "now". Hopefully he's still working..
If not, you know I have 4 boards in 2 pairs with 4" distance between the boards, each running at 100w, above a 4x 2,5' area, lol! Almost the same config like yours..
In earnest.. How is the dialux software, bro? Easy peasy or do we need some time to learn how to work with it?

I'm definately interested to test out a few different configurations to make a final decision which distances between the boards and the walls to use. Supi tool to eliminate possible hotspots or shaded areas and get best possible uniformity.
I only wish more manufacturers will jump on this train and release those ies files with their products. Just like they do with the datasheets. Hopefully I get my windows machine back running tonight...
 
coreywebster

coreywebster

Well-Known Member
Prawn Connery said:
OK, IES files. These things rock!

I've attached the IES files to this post as a ZIP file - anyone interested can download and unpack all the IES files that are inside (High Lights tested at 1.5A, 2.5A, 3.5A and 4A)

If you don't have Dialux, you can get it here (Windoze only): https://www.dial.de/en/dialux-desktop/download/

Once you've downloaded the software, you can import the IES files and apply them to any configuration you like. You will need to set the luminaire dimensions, which are 380mm x 185mm x 2mm (the board is 415 x 205 x 2, but you need to use the LED emission pattern).

Here's an example of what I've been playing with today. It is an open room (no reflective walls) 2.55m x 0.85m with a pair of Highlights over three stations (850mm x 850mm), similar to what we will be doing with them in a commercial room that is replacing all its 600W HPS lamps with High Lights and 480 drivers.

The boards are paired as they would be in real life, and the current is 3.5A, which is slightly less than you can expect with a HLG-320H-48A driver maxed out (336W to the boards). The height is 450mm (15"). You can see 1020 PPFD directly under the panels bleeding to 850, then 680 and no less than 510 in the middle of each station.

In reality, there are white reflective walls on three sides, and the other side is open to overlapping light from other stations, so the edge figures will improve.

These figures appear to be very much inline with the preliminary PAR mapping we did prior to getting the High Lights gonio tested and mapped. You can create almost any situation with these files and get a great simulation before actual PAR testing (assuming you have a PAR meter).

View attachment 4334742

View attachment 4334737
Click to expand...
Did I download the wrong thing? It says dialluxevo..
Don't see an option to import IES, just IFC and STF
 
Or_Gro

Or_Gro

Well-Known Member
Prawn Connery said:
OK, IES files. These things rock!

I've attached the IES files to this post as a ZIP file - anyone interested can download and unpack all the IES files that are inside (High Lights tested at 1.5A, 2.5A, 3.5A and 4A)

If you don't have Dialux, you can get it here (Windoze only): https://www.dial.de/en/dialux-desktop/download/

Once you've downloaded the software, you can import the IES files and apply them to any configuration you like. You will need to set the luminaire dimensions, which are 380mm x 185mm x 2mm (the board is 415 x 205 x 2, but you need to use the LED emission pattern).

Here's an example of what I've been playing with today. It is an open room (no reflective walls) 2.55m x 0.85m with a pair of Highlights over three stations (850mm x 850mm), similar to what we will be doing with them in a commercial room that is replacing all its 600W HPS lamps with High Lights and 480 drivers.

The boards are paired as they would be in real life, and the current is 3.5A, which is slightly less than you can expect with a HLG-320H-48A driver maxed out (336W to the boards). The height is 450mm (15"). You can see 1020 PPFD directly under the panels bleeding to 850, then 680 and no less than 510 in the middle of each station.

In reality, there are white reflective walls on three sides, and the other side is open to overlapping light from other stations, so the edge figures will improve.

These figures appear to be very much inline with the preliminary PAR mapping we did prior to getting the High Lights gonio tested and mapped. You can create almost any situation with these files and get a great simulation before actual PAR testing (assuming you have a PAR meter).

View attachment 4334742

View attachment 4334737
Click to expand...
@Stephenj37826
 
Stephenj37826

Stephenj37826

Well-Known Member
Yes, we will be sending TekniK some of our products..... Do you honestly think I have not sent every fixture we sell to the Gonio? Thus far they have all been inaccurate so why would I publish the data. Maybe Tekniks equipment is a different animal thus the reason I'm sending him some things to test. As I've stated and it is widely known in the industry, gonio testing is not really suited for led horticulture lighting. Once I receive the IES files from Teknik I will test them myself and if they are indeed 90+% accurate we will post them for everyone on the website.
 
Or_Gro

Or_Gro

Well-Known Member
Stephenj37826 said:
Yes, we will be sending TekniK some of our products..... Do you honestly think I have not sent every fixture we sell to the Gonio? Thus far they have all been inaccurate so why would I publish the data. Maybe Tekniks equipment is a different animal thus the reason I'm sending him some things to test. As I've stated and it is widely known in the industry, gonio testing is not really suited for led horticulture lighting. Once I receive the IES files from Teknik I will test them myself and if they are indeed 90+% accurate we will post them for everyone on the website.
Click to expand...
Just fyi man...tryin to help out teknik...thanks for the update...

Oh, and i do honestly think.....but not that way.....

Have a great weekend!
 
Or_Gro

Or_Gro

Well-Known Member
Randomblame said:
Seems I have to reactivate my win7 desktop "now". Hopefully he's still working..
If not, you know I have 4 boards in 2 pairs with 4" distance between the boards, each running at 100w, above a 4x 2,5' area, lol! Almost the same config like yours..
In earnest.. How is the dialux software, bro? Easy peasy or do we need some time to learn how to work with it?

I'm definately interested to test out a few different configurations to make a final decision which distances between the boards and the walls to use. Supi tool to eliminate possible hotspots or shaded areas and get best possible uniformity.
I only wish more manufacturers will jump on this train and release those ies files with their products. Just like they do with the datasheets. Hopefully I get my windows machine back running tonight...
Click to expand...
Hey RB, how bout you please give us the ies for dummies tutorial: install, setup, blastoff?
 
BuddyColas

BuddyColas

Well-Known Member
Stephenj37826 said:
Yes, we will be sending TekniK some of our products..... Do you honestly think I have not sent every fixture we sell to the Gonio? Thus far they have all been inaccurate so why would I publish the data. Maybe Tekniks equipment is a different animal thus the reason I'm sending him some things to test. As I've stated and it is widely known in the industry, gonio testing is not really suited for led horticulture lighting. Once I receive the IES files from Teknik I will test them myself and if they are indeed 90+% accurate we will post them for everyone on the website.
Click to expand...
"...it is widely known in the industry, gonio testing is not really suited for led horticulture lighting."

I am not a LED pro, but I'll bite. Why is that true?
 
Stephenj37826

Stephenj37826

Well-Known Member
BuddyColas said:
"...it is widely known in the industry, gonio testing is not really suited for led horticulture lighting."

I am not a LED pro, but I'll bite. Why is that true?
Click to expand...
As I have discussed in other threads a standard gonio treats the fixture as a point source. To get an accurate simulation you need to be 3 times the longest light emitting surface away from the measuring plane. So take a 24" fixture that has LEDs at 20" from outside to outside point. The subsequent IES will only be accurate at 60" or more from the measuring plane. Said fixture would more than likely be ran at 24" from the canopy. Just think about a 40"X40" bar fixture..... I've been in a few meetings where this was discussed in great detail. CSA group along with DLC has been working on a new horticulture specific method of measuring a light to compile an IES that is near field friendly. A gonio is far field measuring equipment. IE highbay. The solution that has gained traction is a gantry that measures light at 1000s of points over a 10'X10' measuring grid at specified heights . The subsequent data could be used to accurately simulate real world situations.
 
BuddyColas

BuddyColas

Well-Known Member
Stephenj37826 said:
As I have discussed in other threads a standard gonio treats the fixture as a point source. To get an accurate simulation you need to be 3 times the longest light emitting surface away from the measuring plane. So take a 24" fixture that has LEDs at 20" from outside to outside point. The subsequent IES will only be accurate at 60" or more from the measuring plane. Said fixture would more than likely be ran at 24" from the canopy. Just think about a 40"X40" bar fixture..... I've been in a few meetings where this was discussed in great detail. CSA group along with DLC has been working on a new horticulture specific method of measuring a light to compile an IES that is near field friendly. A gonio is far field measuring equipment. IE highbay. The solution that has gained traction is a gantry that measures light at 1000s of points over a 10'X10' measuring grid at specified heights . The subsequent data could be used to accurately simulate real world situations.
Click to expand...
Got it.
Thanks for explaining it...one more time.:mrgreen:
I know you have to explain things a lot.
Maybe you could point guys like me to a FAQ section on your site.
Maybe save you some time.
 
Prawn Connery

Prawn Connery

Well-Known Member
coreywebster said:
Did I download the wrong thing? It says dialluxevo..
Don't see an option to import IES, just IFC and STF
Click to expand...
Hi mate, my virtual machine (Windoze 7) can only run Dialux 4, so I can't advise on the evo version. However if there is a setup wizard you should use that, as it's much easier to deal with. In the wizard you can set the room size and luminaire from a drop-down. You need to import the ies files into "My Database". If you don't see the ies files, just select "All Files" as it may default to another type of file. Once you've selected "All Files" you should be able to see the High Light files. As you import them, you can set the board size and emission surface size. Set both to 380mm x 185mm x 2mm, which is the emission surface.

Dialux 4 is a bit buggy on my machine, so to retrieve a file from my database, they don't always show up. So I simply select "Delete database" and when the option comes up "Yes" or "No", select "No" and then the files should show up. BTW, I did try deleting the database, but it didn't work. I suspect it is because I'm using an old version of Parallels VM software to run Windoze 7.

Again, this is all on Dialux 4 and on a virtual machine, so your mileage may vary.
 
Prawn Connery

Prawn Connery

Well-Known Member
Stephenj37826 said:
As I have discussed in other threads a standard gonio treats the fixture as a point source. To get an accurate simulation you need to be 3 times the longest light emitting surface away from the measuring plane. So take a 24" fixture that has LEDs at 20" from outside to outside point. The subsequent IES will only be accurate at 60" or more from the measuring plane. Said fixture would more than likely be ran at 24" from the canopy. Just think about a 40"X40" bar fixture..... I've been in a few meetings where this was discussed in great detail. CSA group along with DLC has been working on a new horticulture specific method of measuring a light to compile an IES that is near field friendly. A gonio is far field measuring equipment. IE highbay. The solution that has gained traction is a gantry that measures light at 1000s of points over a 10'X10' measuring grid at specified heights . The subsequent data could be used to accurately simulate real world situations.
Click to expand...
Hi Stephen, I got an email from TEKNIK to say his machine was "not a normal goniometer" and that he believed it was quite accurate. I wish he was here to explain everything himself, but I can only relay messages.

Just messing around Dialux I plugged in @Or_Gro 's PAR map data and I got pretty close. Have a look. I had to take a couple of liberties because I only have an IES file for 1.5A, which is 70W per board (560W total). Also, the boards have to be evenly spaced in Dialux 4 (not sure how to group them), but it is close enough.

Here we compare 560W at 18" for the IES file and 600W at 18" for Or_Gro's PAR map. There may be a couple of anomalies, but they are pretty close. To reiterate, the IES file is about 40W short of Or_Gro's actual test. The room is 1.2m x 1.2m (4'x4') and the walls are set to 80% reflectivity.

Screen Shot 2019-05-18 at 12.45.27.png

OR600w18.jpeg
 
Prawn Connery

Prawn Connery

Well-Known Member
Randomblame said:
Seems I have to reactivate my win7 desktop "now". Hopefully he's still working..
If not, you know I have 4 boards in 2 pairs with 4" distance between the boards, each running at 100w, above a 4x 2,5' area, lol! Almost the same config like yours..
In earnest.. How is the dialux software, bro? Easy peasy or do we need some time to learn how to work with it?

I'm definately interested to test out a few different configurations to make a final decision which distances between the boards and the walls to use. Supi tool to eliminate possible hotspots or shaded areas and get best possible uniformity.
I only wish more manufacturers will jump on this train and release those ies files with their products. Just like they do with the datasheets. Hopefully I get my windows machine back running tonight...
Click to expand...
OK, so again I'm handicapped by the IES file (I might have to ask TEKNIK if he can do another one or two for me), but here we have 70W per board (1.5A), or 280W total in a 4' x 2.5'

Randomblame's configuration at 12"
Screen Shot 2019-05-18 at 13.00.48.png

Boards spaced a bit wider at 12"
Screen Shot 2019-05-18 at 13.02.35.png

120W per board (2.5A) for 480W at 18"
Screen Shot 2019-05-18 at 13.05.23.png

120W per board (2.5A) for 480W at 24"
Screen Shot 2019-05-18 at 13.06.01.png

You'll notice the boards are not exactly centred, and this may just be an anomaly or the way the gonio read the boards, but I tweaked the positions to give a fairly even footprint to represent the boards when they are ideally placed. In reality, you would use the IES file as a starting point, and then physically measure the footprint with your PAR meter for optimum spacing. Remember, everyone's grow room and/or tent is different. There will also be different reflectivity on each wall depending what's hanging off it, or if it has zips etc. This is just a guide.
 
Prawn Connery

Prawn Connery

Well-Known Member
Here is my 4'x2' room at 280W (70W per board x 4) at 12" with 80% reflective walls.
Screen Shot 2019-05-18 at 13.33.43.png

Same again at 70% reflectivity
Screen Shot 2019-05-18 at 13.35.06.png

Here is a typical 3' x 3' with the boards mounted as a pair with a 320 driver (3.5A, or 168W per board = 336W total) and 70% walls
Screen Shot 2019-05-18 at 13.38.39.png

Same again with 80% walls
Screen Shot 2019-05-18 at 13.39.28.png

You can see how much the reflective tent makes a difference. So, too, does overlapping light. The moral of the story is, mount your panels closer to the walls than each other if you want more even coverage.
 
coreywebster

coreywebster

Well-Known Member
Prawn Connery said:
Hi mate, my virtual machine (Windoze 7) can only run Dialux 4, so I can't advise on the evo version. However if there is a setup wizard you should use that, as it's much easier to deal with. In the wizard you can set the room size and luminaire from a drop-down. You need to import the ies files into "My Database". If you don't see the ies files, just select "All Files" as it may default to another type of file. Once you've selected "All Files" you should be able to see the High Light files. As you import them, you can set the board size and emission surface size. Set both to 380mm x 185mm x 2mm, which is the emission surface.

Dialux 4 is a bit buggy on my machine, so to retrieve a file from my database, they don't always show up. So I simply select "Delete database" and when the option comes up "Yes" or "No", select "No" and then the files should show up. BTW, I did try deleting the database, but it didn't work. I suspect it is because I'm using an old version of Parallels VM software to run Windoze 7.

Again, this is all on Dialux 4 and on a virtual machine, so your mileage may vary.
Click to expand...
Cheers dude. I figured it out to a degree, going to download dialux 4 as its a simpler program and that's all we need.
There were just too many options on 8.

Looks like you have almost exactly what I wanted to see in your last post though, will still play around with the different currents and spacings. bongsmilie
 
Randomblame

Randomblame

Well-Known Member
Prawn Connery said:
OK, so again I'm handicapped by the IES file (I might have to ask TEKNIK if he can do another one or two for me), but here we have 70W per board (1.5A), or 280W total in a 4' x 2.5'

Randomblame's configuration at 12"
View attachment 4335133

Boards spaced a bit wider at 12"
View attachment 4335132

120W per board (2.5A) for 480W at 18"
View attachment 4335131

120W per board (2.5A) for 480W at 24"
View attachment 4335130

You'll notice the boards are not exactly centred, and this may just be an anomaly or the way the gonio read the boards, but I tweaked the positions to give a fairly even footprint to represent the boards when they are ideally placed. In reality, you would use the IES file as a starting point, and then physically measure the footprint with your PAR meter for optimum spacing. Remember, everyone's grow room and/or tent is different. There will also be different reflectivity on each wall depending what's hanging off it, or if it has zips etc. This is just a guide.
Click to expand...

Many thanks, brother!
My shitty PC is still down. Motherboard is deadl I still have hope its just because the old bios battery is deeply discharged and gone. Pc was unplugged from the wall for a long time. Normally it would charge the battery again if you plug it back in but till now(10h) the battery is still dead.

The more thanks you have tested it already! Was mlre meant as a joke because I know you don't have the files with 100w.
Seems with 70w per board and 12" I get exactly what I want. Just below 1000 is perfect for me..
I don't have CO² anyway but with the 2 ELG-200's there is still enough head room in case I add it later some time.
Seems I'll have a lot of fun with them..
 
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