High Voltage Aeroponics

DaFreak said:

“but if you look at all the of the more agile startup vertical farms springing up across the world that raise hundred's of millions in investments and you'll see 9 times out of 10, they use Aeroponics - that's alot more than 0.0001%.”

point to one or two if you can. Lol now try to point to even one that grows cannabis. Like I said, full of shit 100%
Edit: verticals farms are the future! Lol

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Honestly debating with you is like talking to wall... every 'smart' answer you come back with is either completely wrong or true based on 'your experience'. You're now even making assumptions about a commercial space in which obviously have limited knowledge of. The fact is, my device can increase yields and it can be real Aeroponics... I never once said otherwise. The point is, you don't need to be limited to the way you grow.

The fact that you spent $3k on a grow system thinking that it automatically means you did it best way and therefor no one can grow plants better than you, tells me everything I need to know about you. And, I never once said vertical farms are the future? I highlighted that they are doing the best that then can by using the technology with the most potential... obviously it's hard for you to accept they are not using your 'superior' way of growing.

If you really want to continue wasting both of our time, than at least make it factual true and maybe throw in some useful information so that other people reading this might learn from you. It's stupid arguing for the sake of it - I'm running out of patience for it.

Lol, $3000 was my first system, was junk. That was my starting point though. I brought it up because I was the kind of grower that you would want to target. Thankfully I’m experienced now and can see bullshit for what it is. You give somebody shit about generalizing 00.001% and then bring up more bullshit about hundreds of millions invested in vertical farms. Lol, what percent do vertical farms represent? 000.001% lol. And they might be 100 millions invested in them, but you didn’t get shit from it. You are some punk who thinks you can make a buck off of inexperienced growers. If you were anywhere near legit you wouldn’t even be on this site bringing up this bs. Here’s your chance to talk more BS.....go.

For anybody who doesn’t know, the driving force behind vertical farms is to reduce shipping costs and grow where you don’t have the land. Great for herbs and some vegetables. Stupid for cannabis.

hey op, show us one pic of your 50oz plant because I’m starting to think everything you say is complete bs. Surely you have a pic of that right? Lol

Actually I’d be shocked if you could show us a pic of a 10oz plant to be honest.

Yeah whatever, I really don't care any more! I didn't spend 2 years of my life developing a technology I'm passionate about so I can bullshit growers for a quick buck. You got a lot of hatred in you to hijack my thread from the very beginning and try to pick fault in everything I say because you assume I'm a punk trying to con everyone!

It's really put a downer for me on this forum and to think I've been a member here for 10 years with my other account. What's the point in having a community of passionate growers when you have individuals like yourself that constantly tries to put down people who like to think differently and share ideas?!

And funnily enough, I have got pictures to prove I grew 50oz plants... Tempted to find the pics just to shut you up! But of course you will always have some stupid answer to prove yourself right and try to put me down!

so no pic eh?


your "other" account? lol, too shamed to use that one? Think the rules say one account per user.

Yeah I knew you would have another smart answer... I was ashamed of my username actually. I was pretty dumb and immature when I was younger, similar to yourself now.

Sorry if that are the rules though, I didn't realize. I'm almost happy to delete both accounts at this point though.

Considering the pics were like 10 years ago, it will definitely be a hassle to find... But I will reluctantly find them for you if you promise to shut up and admit you are wrong?

Actually, better yet, if you are so confident and because of the hassle i have to go through to prove i'm legit, let's make it worth my while... if i get the pictures to prove it, will you close your account so no one needs to go through this hassle with you ever again?

fmx1988 said:

Well I guess you live in Netherlands then? Which is awesome, and you're a lucky guy. I've been there a few times for work and it is an amazing place in regards to high-tech greenhouses. But in the kindest way possible, you're still completely wrong in your assumptions

Firstly, because you've just made up that 0.0001% number up lol but yeah, you're right that Aeroponics is hardly used there. But your reasons are not completely accurate and dumbs down the complexity of the business dynamics behind large scale grow facilities that have been operating successfully for decades - It's just so much more to it. I won't even begin to explain it, but if you look at all the of the more agile startup vertical farms springing up across the world that raise hundred's of millions in investments and you'll see 9 times out of 10, they use Aeroponics - that's alot more than 0.0001%.

I'm sure you will try and say it's completely different because it's small herbs etc, but the fact remains, they use it because the scientific evidence suggests that Aeroponic has the 'potential' to grow plants faster. Eitherway, it completely goes against the notion that Aeroponics "does not perform better than any other system in terms of yield" Moreover, why would they spend millions on using more complicated and unreliable systems when it yields less?

I've not tried to say Aeroponics is superior, I've just tried to explain that Aeroponics does have the potential to grow plants faster and that there are some advantages to this method of growing when used in a certain way. And to be honest, I didn't even want to do that - this whole thread has derailed into something else entirely because some people want to enforce their experience/belief that Aeroponics suck. I even went to the extreme of suggesting that my device can absolutely drown plants just to get away from the whole "true Aeroponic" topic - yet i'm back here again to explain a method of growing I don't even care about. Also not going to even warrant an answer as to why i'm on a forum collecting consumer opinions about a technology that is evidently so controversial - similarly to what you think, that's enough reason to doubt your knowledge about the whole matter.

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I understand that you are defending your business and your passion.
But that doesn't make your story more true.

All these vertical gardens and city gardens will be not more then gimmicks for the next 10 years. It is is nice to grow lettuce and herbs that way for sure. And transportation costs and such will be lower. But a lot of those start-ups pop up and disappear again. It is always the same blablabla "NASA did this/says this"
But in the real world you don't see aeroponics. Also because there is no scientific proof that it will always work better. For sure there will be some papers that will show that in certain circumstances it will outperform other systems. But the side to side that you often see in those experiments, are almost always between soil and aeroponics. Never between basins for example and aeroponics.
I visit a hydro farm now and then. Huge basins with water with floating rafts with herbs and vegetables. Low cost, high yield, it is so simple that you can train monkeys to do the work. With the owners I also talk about different systems. They tried a lot. High tech stuff. New inventions. They all got back to basics. Why? Because they want it monkey proof. If now their pump fails, they buy a spare pump in 1 hour and someone comes o install it. With nozzles and god knows what, it will take forever.
Will aeroponics grow better tomatoes? Faster tomatoes? Cucumbers? Peppers? Cannabis? Show me the scientific papers for this.
You just say it and thus we have to believe you.

And even if it would be faster, there still is all the complexity of the set up.
In a city/vertical garden that might be no problem. It is a small set up. Clients are nearby so lower costs to get it there. So bigger margins.
It is the hipster/whole foods approach. It is a niche.

But I will wait patiently for your product, and if turns out to be a succes, I will be the first one to say I was wrong and applaud you.

Like I said, I don’t need a mythical 50 oz plant pic from an indoor grow, how about a 10 oz plant pic? Worth your time, lol.

Keesje said:

I understand that you are defending your business and your passion.
But that doesn't make your story more true.

All these vertical gardens and city gardens will be not more then gimmicks for the next 10 years. It is is nice to grow lettuce and herbs that way for sure. And transportation costs and such will be lower. But a lot of those start-ups pop up and disappear again. It is always the same blablabla "NASA did this/says this"
But in the real world you don't see aeroponics. Also because there is no scientific proof that it will always work better. For sure there will be some papers that will show that in certain circumstances it will outperform other systems. But the side to side that you often see in those experiments, are almost always between soil and aeroponics. Never between basins for example and aeroponics.
I visit a hydro farm now and then. Huge basins with water with floating rafts with herbs and vegetables. Low cost, high yield, it is so simple that you can train monkeys to do the work. With the owners I also talk about different systems. They tried a lot. High tech stuff. New inventions. They all got back to basics. Why? Because they want it monkey proof. If now their pump fails, they buy a spare pump in 1 hour and someone comes o install it. With nozzles and god knows what, it will take forever.
Will aeroponics grow better tomatoes? Faster tomatoes? Cucumbers? Peppers? Cannabis? Show me the scientific papers for this.
You just say it and thus we have to believe you.

And even if it would be faster, there still is all the complexity of the set up.
In a city/vertical garden that might be no problem. It is a small set up. Clients are nearby so lower costs to get it there. So bigger margins.
It is the hipster/whole foods approach. It is a niche.

But I will wait patiently for your product, and if turns out to be a succes, I will be the first one to say I was wrong and applaud you.

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Yeah sorry, I probably did come across as a bit of d*ck. Like you say, i'm just trying to defend my point of view and obviously I'm a little frustrated because I've got some annoying guy pretending to be an expert trying to say this, that and the rest about me. But I do agree with a lot of what you say about vertical farming and i'm definitely not saying vertical farming is suitable for Cannabis. That would make me stupid

And a lot of what you say about the issues with complexity is true also, but it's not impossible if you can offer a clear benefit that makes it worth their while - I know this from experience when creating partnerships for trial grows. Although admittedly, there is a lot more to it with my commercial system, so you don't have a full picture of what i'm doing commercially. Unfortunately, I'm not at a stage where i can disclose a lot of my work due to intellectual property. But I appreciate you putting across your experience and knowledge.

@DaFreak Again, it's just another stupid comment by you. It's a lot harder for me to find a pic of a 10oz plant when I don't have any... so yeah that's not worth my time lol Either way, I found the pictures of the bigger plants, so when you finally agree to it and say the words that you will cancel your account if I prove you wrong and i'm legit... then I will post the pics - that will most definitely be worth my time

Obviously if you don't cancel your account at that point, you'll just have to hang your head in shame and better yet, live with the fact that you're not as good as you think you are!

Dude you’re a joke. We will never seen anything from you because nothing exists. Stupid idea to begin with, fogger in a hobby system, been done before and always fails, much like this thread.

Well two opportunities for you to call me out and put your money where your mouth is, but I guess it was pretty obvious you wouldn't have the balls for it. Shame, I was looking forwards to shutting you up!

Either way, you ain't got the balls to call me out and this has dragged out way too long! I guess it's about time I use the ignore button... Cheers f*cker

lol, go away kid and try to convince someone that throwing a fogger into a Rez is the cool thing to do. Loser.

4 pages of this nonsense and the punk won't even put up a pic to show that at least he knows how to grow weed. But to be honest, if he did put up a pic of a monster indoor plant then the question would be why is he trying to sell something that every experienced grower knows is a gimmick that does nothing for the grower? Thanks for the picture of the potatoes growing though, absolutely fck all to do with what you were talking about in this thread, but still, proves that you can google.

To get back on track how about some questions...

- What PSI is the system running?
- What sizes droplets are you aiming for?
- What is the hang-time of the mist?
- How much water does each nozzle use per spray, per second?
- Have you been able to produce fine root hairs? Do you have photos?
- How do you maintain root zone temp?
- How do you determine when to change your spray cycle? Data logging? Manual inspection?
- What sized cannabis plants are you aiming for? Is this for a SOG setup or will it grow 2lb monsters like I prefer? (Plant-count matters.)

Please realize I am not trying to be an ass here, but every few months someone comes by and touts aero, brings up the same old data, and claims they have it all figured out. Those of us who've done it simply try and save them the time and money. It's up to you whether you learn from us or not...

fmx1988 said:

It's fairly easy to get 50oz a plant consistently in DWC systems, but would amazed to see it in Aeroponics, or even dirt pot plants for that matter!

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fmx1988 said:

It reminds me of when I used to tell people I could achieve 50oz plants indoors easily every time

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Still waiting on those pics guy. On one hand you claim you get 50 oz every time......but then you say the pics were from years ago. So somewhere along the line you decided that you wanted to stop growing 50 oz plants every time and focus on small aeroponic plants? Just asking 'cause not a lot of what you are saying makes no sense.

SuperiorBuds said:

To get back on track how about some questions...

- What PSI is the system running?
- What sizes droplets are you aiming for?
- What is the hang-time of the mist?
- How much water does each nozzle use per spray, per second?
- Have you been able to produce fine root hairs? Do you have photos?
- How do you maintain root zone temp?
- How do you determine when to change your spray cycle? Data logging? Manual inspection?
- What sized cannabis plants are you aiming for? Is this for a SOG setup or will it grow 2lb monsters like I prefer? (Plant-count matters.)

Please realize I am not trying to be an ass here, but every few months someone comes by and touts aero, brings up the same old data, and claims they have it all figured out. Those of us who've done it simply try and save them the time and money. It's up to you whether you learn from us or not...

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Yeah thanks for that, I appreciate the effort to get back on track I'm not here to tout about HPA anything and just want to learn more about the hobbyist market on a more personal level and see if anything of my technology would apply to it - in any shape or form.

To answer your question though...
- no psi, just a self priming peristaltic pump feeding the rotary atomiser
- I'm not aiming for anything as such, it's up to the user... range from about 30microns up to 500 microns roughly
- depends on water droplet size, and also how you use the air flow generated by the rotary atomizer... e.g. you can activate the rotary atomizer with the larger fan blades without waterpump so that you generate an upwards airflow without a mist to potential increase the hang time of the mist
- Theres no nozzles, just rotary atomizer with the smallest orifice size of 4mm for easy cleaning and potentially large flowrates. Current prototype uses an adjustable flowrate between 0 to 800ml per min (13ml per sec) but i believe it could potentially have a max flow rate of 3000ml per min.
- I haven't (and don't particularly plan to, unless it proves worthwhile) built an entire system for the hobbyst market, so that would be up to the user to implement root chamber and method of maintaining root zone temp. In my commercial system we use copper finned heat exhangers strategically placed to provide air movement by convection.
-ATM it's a lot of data logging via sensors, manual inspection and playing around with it. We are starting to develop the machine learning algorithms so the smaller and routine changes are done automatically to mist schedule and desired mist properties related to temp, light cycle, humidity etc, but user input would still be required for larger changes.
-it's never gonna be appropriate to grow 2lb monster plants in Aero, even if it was possible. I'm aiming the technology for growing smaller plants (3ft absolute max) with faster growth rates

No pics at this stage i'm willing to share because the only pictures i have of plants are for internal use focused on the technology side of things, most of which we want patents for. The trial grows are coming up soon enough and i will have patents filed by then also.

I can talk abstract about some stuff, as you can't patent vague concepts. So for instance, we don't use standard net pots that grow roots in an un-optimised way for Aeroponics. We also don't use a static atomizer and we use a secondary recirculating system separate to the main tanks so each grow system has it's own nutrient system in a smaller form so changes within the root zone are more accurately analysed in a feedback loop for the machine learning aspect. Every bit of technology has a fail safe mechanism and simultaneously alerts users of the problem - each main component is designed to be replaced in less than 30 secs.

The idea is not that my system is the perfect aeroponic system, but that it allows you to modify the root zone environment easily in a reliable way. So you may use true Aeroponics for the first month and then switch to an environment where the roots are soaked and you replicate an NFT system and then towards the end of the grow when your roots/plants are fully developed, you may want to lower the temperature and reduce misting cycle to produce root hairs on the already developed root structure and then towards the final few days, you reduce the misting cycle even further to stress out the plant.

It encourages users to play with the root zone environment via their phone and experiment with the roots like training and pruning with an easy to access front face on the chamber. Honestly growing is so easy, but the biggest potential for yield is via well distributed lighting and well developed roots. Everything else like temp, nutes, humidity are just necessities, but they will never be the key to big/fast yields. But that's just my opinion of course.

From your point of view, you may think this is all well and good, but you've encountered dry spots and reliability issues with nozzles in the past so no doubt you will be pessimistic, but I do appreciate any feedback/concerns you have, because I'm still keen to learn from your experiences anyway.

Basically what I’ve said every time this idea comes up. It’s basically for the first 2 weeks then it’s an nft or dwc system. So how much are people willing to spend for a few weeks of growing. But unless you keep the fogger going the hole time those roots are going to convert.

@SuperiorBuds I was just thinking it would be nice to hear some of your experiences with Aeroponics and how you tried to overcome some of the problems?

- About 4+ weeks in and you started having trouble with mist distribution & dry spots within the center of the root mass, how did you try overcome it?
- Did you automate the positional adjustments of the nozzles over time or did you move them manually?
- Did you use nozzles or some other mechanism to produce the mist?
- How did you ensure a consistent droplet size/distribution as particulates built up over time in the nozzles/mechanism and changed the shape of the droplet formation region?
- When you found it hard to keep the entire root mass evenly wet, how did you increase the droplet size and velocity to penetrate it? Or did you transplant the plants into a different system? If so, which system and did you do this before the flowering stage so the plants flowering period was not disrupted?
- What methods did you implement to train the roots into one more suited Aeroponics? Did you try air pruning, chemicals, cutting? Were you successful in training the roots in less dense, evenly spread structures and if so, was it automated or was it done manually?
- Did you experiment with sacrificing root hairs periodically in exchange for other characteristics of the roots?
- How did you encourage the growth of large feeder roots to support a larger plant later in the life cycle?
- To help perfect the best plant spacing though out the life cycle and optimize root space, what plant support mechanism did you employ that gave you the freedom to move the plants easily?

That would be a lot of the basic technical stuff worth hearing from you It would be nice to also hear what you thought about the growth rate when it was working successfully for you? And when you started running into problems, how did that affect your growth rate?

I'd like to know more about those pics you put up of the potatoes. is there a link or anything that can tell me yield per one of those aero units? and roughly the cost of one?

i'm gonna have an empty garage fairly soon and am looking for a small business that i can run out of it. i've thought about doing SWC with floating rafts and growing microgreens but then i found out we have 2 local companies that already do that.