HLG vs HGL Side By Side Take 2

Im under delete on sight after questioning a statement regarding adding far reds increasing thc, which ended up in "proof" given comparing a their grow results to HPS, which then morphed into red to far red ratios (yeah theyre even higher in hps. Or am i saying that wrong?) and then well i didnt actually get where she ended up. She cant actually stick to one argument or claim, its on to the next humdinger with new missdirection.

I guess she tried to ban me aswell but i never hard trolled, only some soft core "fake news, biggest inauguration audience" when was falsely called sock puppet of Sethi for making factual statements. The fact that she had to instruct people not to engage with me seems to point towards icmag moderators not buying into all of it. Im done anyways.

After engaging with her you get this unreal feeling. Ive never lived a die hard trump fan except for once in an airport and i get feeling its the same. Now that Huckaby is gone theres room for a talented Led Girl?

But i think the real reason was mentioning the unmentionable (sorry hybrid if this is already too much for this thread) but then she construed my comments about the "security" of my grow being about her lights breaking down.

Im actually keen on trying to build her spectrum out of strips and see how it works out if you use proper components and light distribution. If i remember my back of the hand calcs a 25w 2700k 90cri strip with a 25 w 10:1 red/blue strip of similar efficiency should do the trick.

hybridway2 said:

Haha! Thats soo funny you ask cuz one day i noticed a staggered start on the arrays or discs. Almost panicked then talked to OneHitDone & Cammi whom confirmed they are designed to do so to prevent high surge loads all at once or something like that. Yup, they're good.
But they are no longer even in existence. Maybe shell put em on clearance.

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Ohhhh...OneHitDone works for HGL?

So we can presumably direct questions to him regarding HGL's lights?

hybridway2 said:

Could never match wattage here. Maybe on the new HGL boards as that would be the best true comparison w/o all the headaches of trying to line up two totally different animals. In the beginning i was lining up approx ppfd but it was hard to keep that way as they got bigger. Im not sure if its because of the large board size, the small direct light w/ peak spots, or spectrum related but i was not able to provide matching (higher) ppfd to the Trinity / Whitelight plants. They were happy with 3-500 range whereas the HGL / RGB lights were able to deliver higher Ooooohmols in the peak areas, but as you know it drops fast on the edges. So, in the end the ppfds are very close. They needed rotating more & there was one 84x over 1 plant.
If i turn the Trinity up to 525 watts i think it is, it would need to be over 3' high & plants be ready in top shape to handle the Brightragesnous of it all. Deff a whole new meaning to efficiency, thats fir sure.
270-320w is where she lay @ 30" Covering the 5x5 n then some with 250-475+ par.
I do believe the Trinity to be capable of a much better veg then i happened to show here. And will get another chance. Letting plan5s sit in 6-10" potts fit months isn't providing true veg info you can judge a basic veg on. Only the comp plants got normally treated but w/o the training I'd hoped fir. They'll get the trellis fir that.
I do feel there may actually be something special to the hgl spectrum tho.
That test plant from last night has nothing to show really. Its dry in the center again n will get nutes tonight . Ill update tho later.
I think the hlg plant may have gotten the gnats cuz i was feeding both the comp plants on the same day n the HGL one would be dry faster. Instead of hitting the hlg plant the next morning before work id end up feeding it with the hgl.
No more of that.
Kind've rambled on there. Did i cover the question?

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Why did you even say what lights your using? If it's just a spectrum test the brand of light doesn't even matter it's really sad that you have handicapped the hlg light so much this is in no way a comparison or side by side grow. I still think hlg will win even with you doing everything you can to give the hgl the biggest advantage possible. At least you showed the owner of these companies true colors even with you cheating hlg so bad they still haven't come in to talk shit unlike ledgirl

hybridway2 said:

Could never match wattage here. Maybe on the new HGL boards as that would be the best true comparison w/o all the headaches of trying to line up two totally different animals. In the beginning i was lining up approx ppfd but it was hard to keep that way as they got bigger. Im not sure if its because of the large board size, the small direct light w/ peak spots, or spectrum related but i was not able to provide matching (higher) ppfd to the Trinity / Whitelight plants. They were happy with 3-500 range whereas the HGL / RGB lights were able to deliver higher Ooooohmols in the peak areas, but as you know it drops fast on the edges. So, in the end the ppfds are very close. They needed rotating more & there was one 84x over 1 plant.
If i turn the Trinity up to 525 watts i think it is, it would need to be over 3' high & plants be ready in top shape to handle the Brightragesnous of it all. Deff a whole new meaning to efficiency, thats fir sure.
270-320w is where she lay @ 30" Covering the 5x5 n then some with 250-475+ par.
I do believe the Trinity to be capable of a much better veg then i happened to show here. And will get another chance. Letting plan5s sit in 6-10" potts fit months isn't providing true veg info you can judge a basic veg on. Only the comp plants got normally treated but w/o the training I'd hoped fir. They'll get the trellis fir that.
I do feel there may actually be something special to the hgl spectrum tho.
That test plant from last night has nothing to show really. Its dry in the center again n will get nutes tonight . Ill update tho later.
I think the hlg plant may have gotten the gnats cuz i was feeding both the comp plants on the same day n the HGL one would be dry faster. Instead of hitting the hlg plant the next morning before work id end up feeding it with the hgl.
No more of that.
Kind've rambled on there. Did i cover the question?

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LOL! Um, sorta.

In one of your first posts you said 3x HGLs were sucking 472W - so around 157W per unit. That would be around 630W total for all four units, yes?

And to get equivalent PPFD from the HLG Trinity board, you needed 270-320W? So 270-320W (HLG) vs 472-630W (HGL) - is that right?

Do you think 500 PPFD will be enough to flower, or will you be lowering the HGL and turning up the HLG?

Sorry for all the questions, but I really want to get an idea of the difference in power consumption, as well as the difference (if any) in spectral power. In other words, I think what we all want to know is will the HGL outgrow the HLG at the same PPFD (which on paper it should)?

Thanks mate.

Black-Thumb said:

The pathetic part is, from what I saw, he wasnt actually trolling at all. He asked valid questions, then got dog piled by sycophants.

It's a sad state of affairs over there.

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Fir real? Cuz i can only picture him riding that fine line of good points & slander based on assumptions. But hey, i dunno! Didn't see.
The IC kicked of @sethimus from what Cammi said. She only asked he be removed from her thread. Shit happens here all the time n heads dont get banned from the forum. Id say IC is probably mad whack if i had to guess. I know im here on RIU fir a reason.

Ryante55 said:

Why did you even say what lights your using? If it's just a spectrum test the brand of light doesn't even matter it's really sad that you have handicapped the hlg light so much this is in no way a comparison or side by side grow. I still think hlg will win even with you doing everything you can to give the hgl the biggest advantage possible. At least you showed the owner of these companies true colors even with you cheating hlg so bad they still haven't come in to talk shit unlike ledgirl

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Guy, WTF are you even talking about????
Do you not read? Explain how ive handicapped anything.
There's only one plant being compared truly here you fuckin mutt. His gets center of a 300w HE big LES Board whilest hers gets a corner of 4 lights with truly only 1 , 148w / w/fans unit n some downwatd focused light on the inner side from the other lights. No wall reflection, no Center of the x4 lights (makes one panel). And only higher ppf at a single peak & towards the middle of the 4. Other 1/2 the plant barely gets any light in the corner luke that.
So pls, oh mighty HLG DickRider, why dont you tell me how i e handicapped HLG.
Also, incase you havent noticed, ive shared freely about the HLG plant having fungus gnats & also shared my efforts to rectify the problem asap. So what?
The Trinity is almost the same spectrum as the 96's which just broke a record for me of 24oz of Super Dank FuelBomb in only a 5 gall bucket with no training. Blew my mind. Although i feel the plants take the smaller 96's broken up like that easier then the big board. Idk yet. Will deff have to jack her up high as possible. So damn much light per watt im just not used to it. Lol!
Youre nuts Ryante55. My shit stays honest n fair as i can. Sure, i could've gave my other plants a better veg but thats my problems. Not hlgs, or hgls.
Each lights have their pros n cons.
If my saying hgl is producing boards to eliminate those neg factors upsets you n that makes me biased in anyway then you don't have a clue.
If Stephen hit me up with enticing info on the Trinity or even any hlg product id share it here first too.
Almost everyone here has had great n i mean great, often preferred veg resukts using 1.3-6 , insufficient Burples. I know i have. The growth is unmatched. Well,, honestly id have to compare the the Canna-Spec now that it gave me such a good veg.& Flower.
Many of you knew right out that any burple light or in this case RGB had a good shot.
A veg with 1 plant on each side can no way determine the entire lights functionality. What, use it all on that one plant? CooKo! The orher plants were left in potts fir twice as long & therefor cannot be judged as a real veg fir most of them. But we will see the flower take off.
Im sooooooo Freaking Sorry Stephen about the gnats... tour plant is healing up now & will still fill that 4x4 plenty full, i promise. Also, i will redue this test for you but will be up against a few lights & each light will have 2 plants instead.
I know the Trinity would've done allot better in its designated plant had i not waited so long to notice the problem. My bad!

Prawn Connery said:

LOL! Um, sorta.

In one of your first posts you said 3x HGLs were sucking 472W - so around 157W per unit. That would be around 630W total for all four units, yes?

And to get equivalent PPFD from the HLG Trinity board, you needed 270-320W? So 270-320W (HLG) vs 472-630W (HGL) - is that right?

Do you think 500 PPFD will be enough to flower, or will you be lowering the HGL and turning up the HLG?

Sorry for all the questions, but I really want to get an idea of the difference in power consumption, as well as the difference (if any) in spectral power. In other words, I think what we all want to know is will the HGL outgrow the HLG at the same PPFD (which on paper it should)?

Thanks mate.

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I mean pretty much the whole grow both plants have been recieving about equal ppfd. Ive shown that several times.
Yes, the hgl's consume double the power to cover almost 5/8 the area.
Cant really run 3 of them to match output cuz i need them to cover their 4x5 area.
In veg the hgls are like hydro to Coco vs most white led light ive seen. Now flower is a totally different story. I have nightmares of this whole thing going sideways based in the one time i flowered with my HH. Also, im nervous that the other rgb vegged plants may not adapt well to the primarily white flower lights . So, we'll see. Ill share it all.
I can say this, the white lights causes the purple stems worse then the hgl/rgb which just does the petitoles. Solid purp hurts bad man.
Did i cover it bro.?

hybridway2 said:

Guy, WTF are you even talking about????
Do you not read? Explain how ive handicapped anything.
There's only one plant being compared truly here you fuckin mutt. His gets center of a 300w HE big LES Board whilest hers gets a corner of 4 lights with truly only 1 , 148w / w/fans unit n some downwatd focused light on the inner side from the other lights. No wall reflection, no Center of the x4 lights (makes one panel). And only higher ppf at a single peak & towards the middle of the 4. Other 1/2 the plant barely gets any light in the corner luke that.
So pls, oh mighty HLG DickRider, why dont you tell me how i e handicapped HLG.
Also, incase you havent noticed, ive shared freely about the HLG plant having fungus gnats & also shared my efforts to rectify the problem asap. So what?
The Trinity is almost the same spectrum as the 96's which just broke a record for me of 24oz of Super Dank FuelBomb in only a 5 gall bucket with no training. Blew my mind. Although i feel the plants take the smaller 96's broken up like that easier then the big board. Idk yet. Will deff have to jack her up high as possible. So damn much light per watt im just not used to it. Lol!
Youre nuts Ryante55. My shit stays honest n fair as i can. Sure, i could've gave my other plants a better veg but thats my problems. Not hlgs, or hgls.
Each lights have their pros n cons.
If my saying hgl is producing boards to eliminate those neg factors upsets you n that makes me biased in anyway then you don't have a clue.
If Stephen hit me up with enticing info on the Trinity or even any hlg product id share it here first too.
Almost everyone here has had great n i mean great, often preferred veg resukts using 1.3-6 , insufficient Burples. I know i have. The growth is unmatched. Well,, honestly id have to compare the the Canna-Spec now that it gave me such a good veg.& Flower.
Many of you knew right out that any burple light or in this case RGB had a good shot.
A veg with 1 plant on each side can no way determine the entire lights functionality. What, use it all on that one plant? CooKo! The orher plants were left in potts fir twice as long & therefor cannot be judged as a real veg fir most of them. But we will see the flower take off.
Im sooooooo Freaking Sorry Stephen about the gnats... tour plant is healing up now & will still fill that 4x4 plenty full, i promise. Also, i will redue this test for you but will be up against a few lights & each light will have 2 plants instead.
I know the Trinity would've done allot better in its designated plant had i not waited so long to notice the problem. My bad!

Click to expand...

Half the wattage yeah that's fair. It's not a light comparison at all. You say "growth is unmatched" yet you don't use the full potential of the white light so you really have no clue what's better. The fact that you consider any part of this grow a side by side is a joke I really wanted some useful info to come out of this but that clearly won't happen. I really enjoyed most of the stuff you posted before now your just a shill I hope you are at least getting paid

Test plant is perking up a little & still has not been watered.
Will wait till tom when fully dry.

Oh so you can see the handicap i provided. Hgl plant never gets more then 1 , 146w light while the hlg plant gets center or around there of a 300w SuperHE Light.
Ugh, whos getting what now?
plant was just feed & in process of perking up again.

Thats not even? Its how its been the whole this pretty much. The hlg plant gets mived around but always in some way directly under the board. Trinitys @ 423w & is more then enough for a 450 ppfd over the 5x5. Nit trying to blast them whike setting to new potts take at easy they need now n im pushing it. Hlg Comp plants gettin 500+ over the entire top.
Seedlins in the ground all with tails. 4k Horizon on its last leg as are many of them. Will have to replace with new strips.

Ryante55 said:

Half the wattage yeah that's fair. It's not a light comparison at all. You say "growth is unmatched" yet you don't use the full potential of the white light so you really have no clue what's better. The fact that you consider any part of this grow a side by side is a joke I really wanted some useful info to come out of this but that clearly won't happen. I really enjoyed most of the stuff you posted before now your just a shill I hope you are at least getting paid

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No shilling, no paying. Youre silly man. Im reporting what we all see in the pics . What, a 5x5 of full plants each having more toos then u csn count @ 300w osnt proof enough fooletto?
Just answer me this one questions smarty pants, How could i turn up the Trinity anymore based on what ive told everyone????
You might not get it. Donthe math on wtf 3 umols/j is punk. Then maybe youll understand why 300-400 w is more light then you could imagine.. Her 84 Trianasorous X get prob 1.5 generously. Dont you see? Then losing 7% x3 layers of optics = 21% light loss.
The Trinity can, is & will do well. Very happy with all the plants shes done. You kidding me. Damn!
Im doing my best with both.
If anything, cry about the gnats, its the reason i dont have a solid report & have offered to do it again with 2 plants each. So, no, im no freaking Shill . Amare is still my Mamma-Jamma. But get a clue dude .

Black-Thumb said:

Yea...I just went and read it. Apparently if you dont blindly worship at the altar of "he who shan't be named" while also mocking Hybrids grow, you are automatically a bad actor who must be unilaterally banned from their safe space.

Pretty disgusting degenerate cuddle puddle they have going over there. But hey...that's just like...my opinion, man.

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you‘ve seen only the parts she allowed you to see, most stuff i wrote in that thread got deleted right away, keep those suckers blue pilled...

Ryante55 said:

Half the wattage yeah that's fair. It's not a light comparison at all. You say "growth is unmatched" yet you don't use the full potential of the white light so you really have no clue what's better. The fact that you consider any part of this grow a side by side is a joke I really wanted some useful info to come out of this but that clearly won't happen. I really enjoyed most of the stuff you posted before now your just a shill I hope you are at least getting paid

Click to expand...

I'd like to come to Hybridway's defence.

Side-by-side grows are always going to be flawed, because you simply can't control every variable. The only way to truly pit two lights against each other is to do repeated - and repeatable (as far as you can) - tests and compare the trends. We've all seen it: same strain, same lights, same feeding schedule, same blah, blah, but one plant always seems to do better than the other, and it could be anything from the position of the pot to the extra handful of potting mix or coco, to the draft under the door or proximity to the fan or whatever.

That aside, it's pretty easy to measure which light is more efficient than the other - we don't need a grow-off for that.

So what's left? Spectrum. And maybe I'm being a bit selfish here, but I'm not interested in knowing which light is more efficient - I already know the answer to that. So I'm not really interested in him running them at the same wattage.

What I am interested in is comparing the two spectra side-by-side with the same PPFD readings. Now even that - I recognise - is flawed, as the HGL has added 730nm which won't show up on most PAR meters (not the Apogee at least). But it is still a pretty good comparison.

And we can measure a number of things by it. Yield, structure, quality etc. We can also determine, to a point, how much extra yield a good spectrum is worth - all else being (fairly) even. Then we can look at the trade-off between efficiency and efficacy (targetted spectrum) to see if it really is worth, for example, using less efficient LEDs that provide a better spectrum. Or even more efficient LEDs (monos) that provide a better spectrum.

At some point we all need to stop talking shit and start trying shit! Which is what @hybridway2 is doing (and I don't envy him!). Because there is a bit of method to all this madness, and I wouldn't be kicking this grow to the curb just yet.

And trust me, I'm no HGL shill. She's a fucking narc - the worst kind of person to have on any grow forum - and I am glad to see the back of her on RIU. But I'm also not going to let that cloud my judgement when it comes to empirical results.

you still need more than one plant to compare results...

Prawn Connery said:

I'd like to come to Hybridway's defence.

Side-by-side grows are always going to be flawed, because you simply can't control every variable. The only way to truly pit two lights against each other is to do repeated - and repeatable (as far as you can) - tests and compare the trends. We've all seen it: same strain, same lights, same feeding schedule, same blah, blah, but one plant always seems to do better than the other, and it could be anything from the position of the pot to the extra handful of potting mix or coco, to the draft under the door or proximity to the fan or whatever.

That aside, it's pretty easy to measure which light is more efficient than the other - we don't need a grow-off for that.

So what's left? Spectrum. And maybe I'm being a bit selfish here, but I'm not interested in knowing which light is more efficient - I already know the answer to that. So I'm not really interested in him running them at the same wattage.

What I am interested in is comparing the two spectra side-by-side with the same PPFD readings. Now even that - I recognise - is flawed, as the HGL has added 730nm which won't show up on most PAR meters (not the Apogee at least). But it is still a pretty good comparison.

And we can measure a number of things by it. Yield, structure, quality etc. We can also determine, to a point, how much extra yield a good spectrum is worth - all else being (fairly) even. Then we can look at the trade-off between efficiency and efficacy (targetted spectrum) to see if it really is worth, for example, using less efficient LEDs that provide a better spectrum. Or even more efficient LEDs (monos) that provide a better spectrum.

At some point we all need to stop talking shit and start trying shit! Which is what @hybridway2 is doing (and I don't envy him!). Because there is a bit of method to all this madness, and I wouldn't be kicking this grow to the curb just yet.

And trust me, I'm no HGL shill. She's a fucking narc - the worst kind of person to have on any grow forum - and I am glad to see the back of her on RIU. But I'm also not going to let that cloud my judgement when it comes to empirical results.

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Couldnt put that better myself.
Also remember side by sides are by no way a golden standard in scientific tests, even if you control all variables. You need much more than one plant each side, say a 100, calculate mean yield and standard deviation after maybe making some choice regarding eliminating some high and/or low outliers, then insert the numbers into statistical T-test and the result you get isnt isnt a clear cut yes or no, its a yes or no with a % value of how certain we are that the results arent just a fluke. I know theres people around riu who have advanced studies and know a bit about what im talking about, but these studies are very hard to do and the private nature of growing makes it pointless cause someone could always question the results on some kinda premise. If its as good as it gets then lets get on with the grow. The results will get twisted around anyway but well get to see the process from a grower that shown more than reasonable impartiality. And im sure it will be a hell of a show

exactly, but the blue pills dont get it

sethimus said:

you‘ve seen only the parts she allowed you to see, most stuff i wrote in that thread got deleted right away, keep those suckers blue pilled...

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I'm sure.

But they cant delete your comments from showing up in their replies when they quote you. So I saw all the comments you made that they felt compelled to reply to you about.

None of it was that bad. People need thicker skin.

Prawn Connery said:

I'd like to come to Hybridway's defence.

Side-by-side grows are always going to be flawed, because you simply can't control every variable. The only way to truly pit two lights against each other is to do repeated - and repeatable (as far as you can) - tests and compare the trends. We've all seen it: same strain, same lights, same feeding schedule, same blah, blah, but one plant always seems to do better than the other, and it could be anything from the position of the pot to the extra handful of potting mix or coco, to the draft under the door or proximity to the fan or whatever.

That aside, it's pretty easy to measure which light is more efficient than the other - we don't need a grow-off for that.

So what's left? Spectrum. And maybe I'm being a bit selfish here, but I'm not interested in knowing which light is more efficient - I already know the answer to that. So I'm not really interested in him running them at the same wattage.

What I am interested in is comparing the two spectra side-by-side with the same PPFD readings. Now even that - I recognise - is flawed, as the HGL has added 730nm which won't show up on most PAR meters (not the Apogee at least). But it is still a pretty good comparison.

And we can measure a number of things by it. Yield, structure, quality etc. We can also determine, to a point, how much extra yield a good spectrum is worth - all else being (fairly) even. Then we can look at the trade-off between efficiency and efficacy (targetted spectrum) to see if it really is worth, for example, using less efficient LEDs that provide a better spectrum. Or even more efficient LEDs (monos) that provide a better spectrum.

At some point we all need to stop talking shit and start trying shit! Which is what @hybridway2 is doing (and I don't envy him!). Because there is a bit of method to all this madness, and I wouldn't be kicking this grow to the curb just yet.

And trust me, I'm no HGL shill. She's a fucking narc - the worst kind of person to have on any grow forum - and I am glad to see the back of her on RIU. But I'm also not going to let that cloud my judgement when it comes to empirical results.

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Exactly I literally have been saying this since the first side by side thread. The fact that ryante and sethimus and these other trolls just keep going on and on about the bullshit is the biggest problem with this grow. We knew in the beginning it wouldn't be perfect, but trash talking the whole time won't help either.

sethimus said:

exactly, but the blue pills dont get it

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Theres another thread for such discussions.