How much light do you really need?

Markshomegrown said:

That's great if you can pull this off,with a 600w SE HPS I really struggle to cover more than a 4ft x 3ft (medium adjust-a-wing) without the lux dropping to 30k(edges), could be sometime wrong, don't know. (50w ft2)

Click to expand...

My spread isn't even, but it still gets the job done.
With HPS the reflector plays a big part, I'm in the spread it as far you can and run the light as close as possible camp.

tkufoS said:

What strain ?

Click to expand...

Strain hunters caboose, didn't like the flavor...

Here's some more picks same tent with 2x400 HPS, canopy was about 8x5ft.

Lower wattage but lights closer.

jimihendrix1 said:

Gavita 1700e is 645w and is made for a direct replacement for a 1000w HID. Which is 42.5w Sq/ft. They also dont claim it is better than a 1000w HID, only that its a direct 1:1 replacement. Its only better wherin it uses less electricity, and the LED last longer.
The 1700e is 1700umol, and a 1000w Hortilux HPS is 1600umole. HID in this case is 62w sq/ft. Both cover a 4 x 4 area

The 1000w Single Ended Hilux Ushio HPS is 2100umol. Same as a 1150w Gaita DE HID. Both will blast a 5 x 5 area.

I go by this formula. To equal HID one needs around 42.5w Sq/ft. HID is 62w sq/ft. I also start seedlings under these conditions, and all the way through flowering.


Full daylight sun at noon in the summer is around 2000 μmol/m2/s. How many Ppfd does the sun produce? At the equator, the sun's intensity gives us a Photosynthetic Photon Flux (PPF) of 2000 µmol/m 2 /sec of light , which is roughly equivalent to 10,200 foot candles or 108,000 lux.

Click to expand...

False, the Gavita CT 1930e LED is a direct replacement for 1000w HPS. IDGAF what any of you LED fanboys say your not competing with a 1000w DE HPS with your 680 watt LEDs.

Unless you're running 100 fixtures you're not even saving enough money to make it worth the loss in yield and quality.

Gavita CT 1930e is $1,200-1,300 per/unit. I'll stick to my 1000w Double Enders. LUXX DE HPS fixture bulb and power cord $230 before tax.

LUXX DE 1000W HPS 240v

DescriptionLuxx DE 1000w HPS 240vThe Luxx Lighting 1000w DE HPS fixture is the result of thousands of harvests, decades of cultivation experience, and passion for the garden. Every component of the DE 1000w was purpose-designed and built from the slim-line reflector to the low profile ballast...

www.luxxlighting.com

I run LED in VEG it ain't for flower unless your growing personals. I'll keep pulling 40 ounces per/light for $250/fixture with shipping. This weed game is about to be over no point in investing thousands of dollars into small scale.

calvin.m16 said:

False, the Gavita CT 1930e LED is a direct replacement for 1000w HPS. IDGAF what any of you LED fanboys say your not competing with a 1000w DE HPS with your 680 watt LEDs.

Unless you're running 100 fixtures you're not even saving enough money to make it worth the loss in yield and quality.

Gavita CT 1930e is $1,200-1,300 per/unit. I'll stick to my 1000w Double Enders. LUXX DE HPS fixture bulb and power cord $230 before tax.

LUXX DE 1000W HPS 240v

DescriptionLuxx DE 1000w HPS 240vThe Luxx Lighting 1000w DE HPS fixture is the result of thousands of harvests, decades of cultivation experience, and passion for the garden. Every component of the DE 1000w was purpose-designed and built from the slim-line reflector to the low profile ballast...

www.luxxlighting.com

View attachment 5071797

Click to expand...

In some places like mine, 3-400w worth of lights and a few exhaust fans on 18/6 is $300 on your bill every quarter. Some of us do care about bills.

My bill went from $350-600 just running 480w worth of led, 3x exhaust fans and a few clip fans. Spread over a few lights that is quite the saving in some places. Add to the that the extra heat qnd cooling requirements and it can make or break a bill.

VincenzioVonHook said:

In some places like mine, 3-400w worth of lights and a few exhaust fans on 18/6 is $300 on your bill every quarter. Some of us do care about bills.

My bill went from $350-600 just running 480w worth of led, 3x exhaust fans and a few clip fans. Spread over a few lights that is quite the saving in some places. Add to the that the extra heat qnd cooling requirements and it can make or break a bill.

Click to expand...

Different strokes for different folks. I'd rather run a 1000w HPS for 8 weeks and have 2 pounds of weed then nurse cuttings under a T5 then pay outrageous prices for an LED light that will get me half the yield and still cost me time and money.

calvin.m16 said:

Different strokes for different folks. I'd rather run a 1000w HPS for 8 weeks and have 2 pounds of weed then nurse cuttings under a T5 then pay outrageous prices for an LED light that will get me half the yield and still cost me time and money.

Click to expand...

That's it, different strokes. I'd rather run 240-300w and pull close to a pound per 2x4 with 2 plants. Luckily there are LEDs that aren't thousands of dollars. For example I got my 120w quantum boards for $85 off kogan on sale, normally around $100. Smart dimmer, smart timer, UV, IR, 3000k, 5000k and 630-660nm lm301b, meanwell drivers etc. I have used a 250w hps in the same tent and had to deal with constant heat issues as I'm in a subtropical environment. Tent was hitting 40c, with the LED it sits around 32c.

I don't believe in nursing seedlings anyway. They just go under a 120w QB at full pelt and never had issues. Sometimes I swear the less effort I put in, the better.

I just aim for 50-60dli, turn the watts down for autos since they’re on for 18hours, mor intensity for photos since it’s 12hrs. Haven’t done autos under led yet, but where I can flower photos under 1000w hps in a 4x4 I use a 600 with autos, that 1000 stresses them tf out.

calvin.m16 said:

False, the Gavita CT 1930e LED is a direct replacement for 1000w HPS. IDGAF what any of you LED fanboys say your not competing with a 1000w DE HPS with your 680 watt LEDs.

Unless you're running 100 fixtures you're not even saving enough money to make it worth the loss in yield and quality.

Gavita CT 1930e is $1,200-1,300 per/unit. I'll stick to my 1000w Double Enders. LUXX DE HPS fixture bulb and power cord $230 before tax.

LUXX DE 1000W HPS 240v

DescriptionLuxx DE 1000w HPS 240vThe Luxx Lighting 1000w DE HPS fixture is the result of thousands of harvests, decades of cultivation experience, and passion for the garden. Every component of the DE 1000w was purpose-designed and built from the slim-line reflector to the low profile ballast...

www.luxxlighting.com

View attachment 5071797

Click to expand...

Dude you got me fucked up with someone else if you think Im mainly an LED guy.

In reality rhe 1700e has 1700umol, and a 1000w Hortilux HID is 1600umol

Umol dont lie. The 1700e is 100 MORE umol than a 1000w Hortilux

Also the Gaviita 1930e is made to replace both a Single Ended fixture, and a DE fixture.
The Gavita 1150w DE light is 2100umol, and the 1930e is 1900 umol. Which the DE IS 200 umol more powerful than the 1930e.
If anything the 1930e is an upgrade over the 1700e, but BOTH will adequately cover a 4 x 4 area, and the 1900e will cover a 5 x 4 area.

I run Gavita 1150w DE fixture, a 1000w Hortilux HPS, and a 1000w Nanolux DE Ceramic Metal Halide.

I switch up in veg with both a Gavita 1700e, and a 1000w Hortilux HPS. I also start seedlingss under 1000w HID. And have since 1977-78. I also veg 24/7.

Even Gavita compares the 1930e to a DE 1150w fixture. Not just a SE Fixture. Gavita sells, and manufactures both DE, and LED

Help crops thrive with more plant-usable light delivered to the canopy and up to 20% energy savings compared to 1000 W DE and single ended HPS fixtures.* Operating at 780 watts with an output of 1930 µmol s-1, the CT 1930e LED achieves an impressive efficacy of 2.5 µmol s-1 per watt. Your lighting energy use drops, and your plants soak up the photons that feed them.

And if you want to get technical the Ushio 1000w SE Bulb is as powerful as a DE 1150w Gavita. BOTH have 2100umol, so you save 150w on the SE light.

Ive been using 1000w HID probably as long, or longer than youve been alive. Ive been using 1000w HID since they came out around 1977-78. The first HID for Horticulture was a bulb used by the US Navy, and was used in their submarines to grow veggies while at sea, but the bulb was very fragile, and wasnt guaranteed to survive shipping. This was also a Metal Halide. HPS didnt have any Blue in it at the time, and caused plants to have less than ideal internode spacing. I grew my first plants outside in 1972.

Then after several months, a 1000w Halide was introduced and was guaranteed in shipping not to be broken, and if it was, would be replaced.

The bulb was called the Supernova. You could also buy the Hydro unit, and it was called the Octagarden. Of which I also bought.

Ive got roughly 44 years under my belt using 1000w HID, and have done hundreds of crops of my own, and not counting having done it with partners.

Watts per square foot or meter is not a relevant metric. For example, not all 200W LEDs output the same light energy. I have a 200W LED and a 300W LED that output the same amount of light. The quantity of light is the relevant metric. It's the PPFD value. 800-1000 PPFD is all you need unless you are running CO2.

PeatPhreak said:

Watts per square foot or meter is not a relevant metric. For example, not all 200W LEDs output the same light energy. I have a 200W LED and a 300W LED that output the same amount of light. The quantity of light is the relevant metric. It's the PPFD value. 800-1000 PPFD is all you need unless you are running CO2.

Click to expand...

I agree with you, I was trying to illustrate that you don’t need 35+ w/sqft unless you need to have your lights high in a high bay type setup.

calvin.m16 said:

Different strokes for different folks. I'd rather run a 1000w HPS for 8 weeks and have 2 pounds of weed then nurse cuttings under a T5 then pay outrageous prices for an LED light that will get me half the yield and still cost me time and money.

Click to expand...

This was meant for LEDs with a similar footprint as the grow space.

Rock whatever makes you happy.

VincenzioVonHook said:

In some places like mine, 3-400w worth of lights and a few exhaust fans on 18/6 is $300 on your bill every quarter. Some of us do care about bills.

My bill went from $350-600 just running 480w worth of led, 3x exhaust fans and a few clip fans. Spread over a few lights that is quite the saving in some places. Add to the that the extra heat qnd cooling requirements and it can make or break a bill.

Click to expand...

sounds like CA prices. just spoke to my buddy there yesterday, he's paying .33-.35 kwh. insanity. i pay .10 lol

The SUN is 100w Sq/ft.

At the equator, the sun's intensity gives us a Photosynthetic Photon Flux (PPF) of 2000 µmol/m2/sec of light, which is roughly equivalent to 10,200 foot candles or 108,000 lux.

jimihendrix1 said:

The SUN is 100w Sq/ft.

At the equator, the sun's intensity gives us a Photosynthetic Photon Flux (PPF) of 2000 µmol/m2/sec of light, which is roughly equivalent to 10,200 foot candles or 108,000 lux.

Click to expand...

Ill buy two of those lights, take my money

Markshomegrown said:

I made some home made reflective for each bulb, between the bulb and the canopy had to be 12"+ because the overlapping light, this gave me more par, the reading worked out between 500-600 par @12" ( 30k lux ).

Click to expand...

What was the difference to before you've added the reflectors?

ComputerSaysNo said:

What was the difference to before you've added the reflectors?

Click to expand...

TBH the main reason I added the reflector is so I don't catch my hands on the bulb, without the reflectors the light spread was good, I had 6 bulbs in a 40cm x 60cm veg room, 12" between the canopy and led, the lux hit 40k in the center, works really well without the reflectors, but it's like running an HPS with a flat reflector, the light was unfocused on the canopy, a lot of the light is wasted.

but with the reflectors, the lights more focused on the canopy, with all the bulbs in my the panel, the lux was hitting 51k 18" below the hood on the tallest cola's, at the weakest point 25" below the led, my plants still getting 38k, the penetration is really good with the reflector
This is what I was aiming for


20k(lux) 3ft below the led in the corner of the panel
I think this shows how well this light will penetrate the canopy


Migro video where I got the idea from, 75w in a 2ft x 2ft, 18.75w with no reflector.

Markshomegrown said:

TBH the main reason I added the reflector is so I don't catch my hands on the bulb, without the reflectors the light spread was good, I had 6 bulbs in a 40cm x 60cm veg room, 12" between the canopy and led, the lux hit 40k in the center, works really well without the reflectors, but it's like running an HPS with a flat reflector, the light was unfocused on the canopy, a lot of the light is wasted.

but with the reflectors, the lights more focused on the canopy, with all the bulbs in my the panel, the lux was hitting 51k 18" below the hood on the tallest cola's, at the weakest point 25" below the led, my plants still getting 38k, the penetration is really good with the reflector
This is what I was aiming for
View attachment 5072258

20k(lux) 3ft below the led in the corner of the panel
I think this shows how well this light will penetrate the canopy
View attachment 5072265

Migro video where I got the idea from, 75w in a 2ft x 2ft, 18.75w with no reflector.
View attachment 5072268

Click to expand...

Just lifted the end led reflector on the bar of LEDs(6 in a row between the led panel and HPS), at 12" it read 35k(lux) and with the reflector, it went up to 41k(lux) so it does make it a lot more effective, that's about 17% give or take.

Markshomegrown said:

Just lifted the end led reflector on the bar of LEDs(6 in a row between the led panel and HPS), at 12" it read 35k(lux) and with the reflector, it went up to 41k(lux) so it does make it a lot more effective, that's about 17% give or take.

Click to expand...

At one point I thought about doing sockets and led bulbs, I was a little gun shy on the wiring.

That’s a pretty economical setup you have, I like the reflector

Bignutes said:

At one point I thought about doing sockets and led bulbs, I was a little gun shy on the wiring.

That’s a pretty economical setup you have, I like the reflector

Click to expand...

The wiring is easy, I drill 2 holes(one for the positive and the second for the negative, there is no earth wire) and it doesn't matter which way round you wire it up(driver in the bulb switches the current), with a good 20mm gap, between them, you can't wire them up wrong, just make sure the bare wires can't touch, I strip about 10mm off the ends.
I took some pic's last time I made the bar light, I feel this is a very safe way of making it.
You can see how far apart the wires are. cut the wire into lengths, stripped the ends off(20mm) twisted the ends together, solder them pushed them in the holes,

and a good inch out the other side, place a small pad, so when I crew the bulb holder down it does not crack


I screwed it down



The last length of wire you need to do something like this




As you will pull the wire at times and don't want the pressure on the last fixing, as it will break over time.

should look something like this.

Markshomegrown said:

twisted the ends together, solder them pushed them in the holes

Click to expand...

Really good instructions, but soldering the wires together is not necessary and does more bad than good (the same is true with loudspeaker cables).

Unsoldered wire ends (merely twisted) will have much better contact with the socket. It also saves work.