How T. Boone Pickens' Energy Plan Just Got Killed

Dankdude

Well-Known Member
By David Morris, AlterNet. Posted October 9, 2008.

The financial bailout bill passed by Congress may have once and for all put an end to T. Boone Pickens' energy plan. Let me explain.

Until the financial meltdown obliterated all other news coverage, T. Boone and his energy plan were everywhere. His book, The First Billion Is the Hardest, is number two on the bestseller list. During the Republican and Democrat Conventions his press conferences were attended by a fawning media, virtually all of who filed stories with the theme "oil man turns wind energy advocate."

Indeed, even the more than casual reader might come away believing the Pickens Energy Plan was all about wind energy. T. Boone's web site does little to contradict that impression. It displays nothing but wind turbines.

But expanding wind energy is not the key element in his plan. The reason is that that the plan's goal is to reduce our dependence on oil and the electric sector uses very little oil. Thus expanding wind-generated electricity does little to move us in that direction. Instead, the heart of Pickens' plan is to purportedly use increased wind energy to back out the natural gas in our electricity system. Pickens wants to eliminate our use of natural gas to generate electricity and instead use it to in our vehicles.

In California, Pickens has been more upfront about his intentions. The Texas oil and gas billionaire has single handedly financed a ballot initiative that would raise $3 billion for incentives for vehicles using cleaner fuels. The initiative heavily favors natural gas vehicles. The biggest rebates would go toward the purchase of heavy-duty trucks and transit buses fueled by natural gas. Only natural gas vehicles would quality for the largest rebate for passenger vehicles -- $10,000.

The primary beneficiary of this ballot initiative would be Clean Energy, the nation's biggest supplier of natural gas for transportation needs. Mr. Pickens is majority shareholder of Clean Energy.

The Pickens energy proposal has a fatal flaw. Transforming our transportation fleet to natural gas will require massive investments in new engines and new fueling systems. Although largely buried in the fine print, Pickens isn't proposing to use natural gas to entirely replace transportation fuels derived from oil. His goal is a 20 percent replacement. So after 15-20 years and the expenditure of tens, if not hundreds of billions of dollars we would then have a transportation system still 80 percent dependent on oil and 20 percent dependent on a fossil fuel whose life expectancy is not much longer than oil's.

A far better plan, and one proposed by a growing number of groups and individuals (including my own, the Institute for Local Self-Reliance, in a recent report titled Driving Our Way to Energy Independence) is to electrify our transportation system. Instead of converting part of our transportation system to natural gas, only to have to then convert it again to renewable fuels, we should convert the transportation system to electricity, and make that electricity increasingly renewable as solar and wind power expand.

Electric vehicles have important advantages over natural gas (or gasoline) powered cars. They are more efficient. They are quiet. They generate no tailpipe emissions.

Moreover, their combined battery storage capacity could usher in a more democratic energy system where households generate transportation fuel from their rooftop solar array and store it in the vehicles' batteries, and, if needed, use their electric vehicles as backup power plants for their homes.

Unlike natural gas cars, electrified cars also lend themselves to being introduced incrementally. There is no partial natural gas car. On the other hand, there is a plug-in hybrid electric vehicle, the first generation of which will be introduced commercially in 2010. The initial PHEVs might have a limited driving range. As a result, initially electricity might power only 25 to 50 percent of the total miles driven. But as battery performance increases and costs drop, electricity will provide a majority and perhaps even 100 percent of the fuel used. Even at lower percentages, if the backup engine for the PHEV were a flexible fuel engine, then biofuels could replace oil, bringing the total oil displacement above 85 percent.

In June 2007, Senators Obama, Orrin Hatch (R-UT) and Maria Cantwell (D-WA) introduced a bill that would give handsome incentives to manufacturers of electrified cars. After the House of Representatives rejected the initial bailout bill, the Senate added on some $110 billion worth of incentives for a wide range of purposes and industries. The Obama, Hatch, Cantwell bill was one of them. It offers a tax credit of up to $7,500 for electrified vehicles. The incentives phase out after sales of electrified vehicles, either plug in hybrids or all electric cars, reach 250,000 in any calendar quarter.

The passage of that bill will accelerate the already vigorous rush by manufacturers to develop a high performance, long lasting and inexpensive car battery. Companies are working on dozens of configurations and in the last two years progress has been swift. The incentives offered should cover 25-50 percent of the cost of these new car batteries, shaving the payback period for electrified vehicles to under 5 years or less.

The financial meltdown probably has killed Pickens' chances of gaining passage of his natural gas initiative in California. Few voters there will approve putting the state even further in debt. And the passage of the Congressional bailout bill should mark the demise of his overall plan, as electric cars go mainstream, leaving the idea of natural gas cars in the dust.
 

******

Well-Known Member
t boone has been standing in the way of green for 20 yrs now w/ the writing on the wall his plan is for us to pay him to go green , pickens is not on ur side friend
 

Dankdude

Well-Known Member
How well I know this, I live 50 miles from the Son of a Bitch and the general consensus is that most of the people around here want to personally shoot him.
 

******

Well-Known Member
he lives 20 miles from alot of ppl he lives 20 miles from he also lives 20 from my dad and we r 300 miles apart
 

Dankdude

Well-Known Member
T. Boone Pickens Lives on a ranch outside of Miami TX.
Every time Dick Cheney comes to his Ranch to hunt, the area is crawling with Secret Service.
 

******

Well-Known Member
he's got more houses than the mccain's and he wants to buy him a wind mill old as dirt and more is all he can think about . i fully support the idea of the gov loaning u money low intrest for green but giving to the big guy hell no
 

Moldy

Well-Known Member
He's talking Nat. gas? Well it's gonna be in short supply too. Maybe just in time where Pickens makes another trillion dollars.
 

TheBrutalTruth

Well-Known Member
By David Morris, AlterNet. Posted October 9, 2008.

The financial bailout bill passed by Congress may have once and for all put an end to T. Boone Pickens' energy plan. Let me explain.

Until the financial meltdown obliterated all other news coverage, T. Boone and his energy plan were everywhere. His book, The First Billion Is the Hardest, is number two on the bestseller list. During the Republican and Democrat Conventions his press conferences were attended by a fawning media, virtually all of who filed stories with the theme "oil man turns wind energy advocate."

Indeed, even the more than casual reader might come away believing the Pickens Energy Plan was all about wind energy. T. Boone's web site does little to contradict that impression. It displays nothing but wind turbines.

But expanding wind energy is not the key element in his plan. The reason is that that the plan's goal is to reduce our dependence on oil and the electric sector uses very little oil. Thus expanding wind-generated electricity does little to move us in that direction. Instead, the heart of Pickens' plan is to purportedly use increased wind energy to back out the natural gas in our electricity system. Pickens wants to eliminate our use of natural gas to generate electricity and instead use it to in our vehicles.

In California, Pickens has been more upfront about his intentions. The Texas oil and gas billionaire has single handedly financed a ballot initiative that would raise $3 billion for incentives for vehicles using cleaner fuels. The initiative heavily favors natural gas vehicles. The biggest rebates would go toward the purchase of heavy-duty trucks and transit buses fueled by natural gas. Only natural gas vehicles would quality for the largest rebate for passenger vehicles -- $10,000.

The primary beneficiary of this ballot initiative would be Clean Energy, the nation's biggest supplier of natural gas for transportation needs. Mr. Pickens is majority shareholder of Clean Energy.

The Pickens energy proposal has a fatal flaw. Transforming our transportation fleet to natural gas will require massive investments in new engines and new fueling systems. Although largely buried in the fine print, Pickens isn't proposing to use natural gas to entirely replace transportation fuels derived from oil. His goal is a 20 percent replacement. So after 15-20 years and the expenditure of tens, if not hundreds of billions of dollars we would then have a transportation system still 80 percent dependent on oil and 20 percent dependent on a fossil fuel whose life expectancy is not much longer than oil's.

A far better plan, and one proposed by a growing number of groups and individuals (including my own, the Institute for Local Self-Reliance, in a recent report titled Driving Our Way to Energy Independence) is to electrify our transportation system. Instead of converting part of our transportation system to natural gas, only to have to then convert it again to renewable fuels, we should convert the transportation system to electricity, and make that electricity increasingly renewable as solar and wind power expand.

Electric vehicles have important advantages over natural gas (or gasoline) powered cars. They are more efficient. They are quiet. They generate no tailpipe emissions.

Moreover, their combined battery storage capacity could usher in a more democratic energy system where households generate transportation fuel from their rooftop solar array and store it in the vehicles' batteries, and, if needed, use their electric vehicles as backup power plants for their homes.

Unlike natural gas cars, electrified cars also lend themselves to being introduced incrementally. There is no partial natural gas car. On the other hand, there is a plug-in hybrid electric vehicle, the first generation of which will be introduced commercially in 2010. The initial PHEVs might have a limited driving range. As a result, initially electricity might power only 25 to 50 percent of the total miles driven. But as battery performance increases and costs drop, electricity will provide a majority and perhaps even 100 percent of the fuel used. Even at lower percentages, if the backup engine for the PHEV were a flexible fuel engine, then biofuels could replace oil, bringing the total oil displacement above 85 percent.

In June 2007, Senators Obama, Orrin Hatch (R-UT) and Maria Cantwell (D-WA) introduced a bill that would give handsome incentives to manufacturers of electrified cars. After the House of Representatives rejected the initial bailout bill, the Senate added on some $110 billion worth of incentives for a wide range of purposes and industries. The Obama, Hatch, Cantwell bill was one of them. It offers a tax credit of up to $7,500 for electrified vehicles. The incentives phase out after sales of electrified vehicles, either plug in hybrids or all electric cars, reach 250,000 in any calendar quarter.

The passage of that bill will accelerate the already vigorous rush by manufacturers to develop a high performance, long lasting and inexpensive car battery. Companies are working on dozens of configurations and in the last two years progress has been swift. The incentives offered should cover 25-50 percent of the cost of these new car batteries, shaving the payback period for electrified vehicles to under 5 years or less.

The financial meltdown probably has killed Pickens' chances of gaining passage of his natural gas initiative in California. Few voters there will approve putting the state even further in debt. And the passage of the Congressional bailout bill should mark the demise of his overall plan, as electric cars go mainstream, leaving the idea of natural gas cars in the dust.
NaturalGas.org

The problem I see with Picken's Plan is that even if the estimates on US Reserves are true, in another century or so, we would be right back where we started. Dependent on foreign sources of Natural Gas.
 

Seamaiden

Well-Known Member
How well I know this, I live 50 miles from the Son of a Bitch and the general consensus is that most of the people around here want to personally shoot him.
Thanks for this, Dank. I don't know that much about the man at all, but something flat STUNK about his commercials and his website. Too God damned slick, so I figured that he's a guy with something to gain. But the altruism angle can really work wonders, no matter the ends or the means, eh?
 

misshestermoffitt

New Member
Natural gas will just end up running out someday as well. How about we get more wind/solar hybrid energy going on. At least that doesn't pollute and I really don't see us running out of wind or solar.
 

Doctor Pot

Well-Known Member
The nice thing about natural gas is that most people have gas lines in their house, so you wouldn't need special fueling stations. You could just hook a compressor to your gas line and use that to fill your car. Say what you will, but it's more realistic than ethanol.

That is kind of devious, saying you're all about alternative energy then buying stock in all the companies that would benefit from your plan.

True, we may run out of natural gas in a century or so, but I'm sure technology will be a lot better then. Also, natural gas can be made from hydrogen easily, and a lot of the technology for using natural gas as a fuel could be used to use hydrogen as a fuel.

Personally, I like the plug-in hybrid concept best, provided we can improve our battery technology a lot. For a typical commute, you wouldn't use gas at all, since the battery alone would have a range of about 40 miles. You wouldn't need the gas unless you went on a road trip. And if we confined our gas usage to road trips, that'd cut it a lot.
 

Bongulator

Well-Known Member
Well, Pickens himself, in his commercials, points out that the natural gas thing is to buy us time, while we work on other ways to reduce our reliance on enemy oil. (I don't want to say 'foreign oil', because I've got no real probs buying oil from Mexico, Canada, and Britain, at least in the short term.)

We should build about 500 new nuclear plants, and store our nuclear waste in Alaska, and convert our cars to primarily electric, and upgrade our electrical grid. If we hadn't just blown three or four trillion dollars racking up debt over Bush's two terms, we'd probably be able to afford to do all that. Alas, bad voter choices in the last two elections has probably doomed us to oil addiction for the foreseeable future, simply because we're now too broke to do much to help our situation.
 

Doctor Pot

Well-Known Member
Natural gas will just end up running out someday as well. How about we get more wind/solar hybrid energy going on. At least that doesn't pollute and I really don't see us running out of wind or solar.
Wind and solar are unreliable. Wind only works when it's windy, and sun only works when it's sunny. Plus solar is 5x the cost of coal and wind is 2x the cost of coal. Hybrid cars are simply more efficient gasoline-powered cars.

Nuclear energy has the most potential though. We just need to convince people that living in the same state as a nuclear waste repository isn't dangerous.
 

Doctor Pot

Well-Known Member
We should build about 500 new nuclear plants, and store our nuclear waste in Alaska, and convert our cars to primarily electric, and upgrade our electrical grid. If we hadn't just blown three or four trillion dollars racking up debt over Bush's two terms, we'd probably be able to afford to do all that. Alas, bad voter choices in the last two elections has probably doomed us to oil addiction for the foreseeable future, simply because we're now too broke to do much to help our situation.
Indeed. We also need to work on bringing down the cost of breeder reactors, which could turn nuclear waste into nuclear fuel, and then commercialize nuclear pyroprocessing. Pyroprocessing is an advanced nuclear waste reprocessing technology that has been demonstrated to work a lot better than the current ones they use. One of the main problems with current nuclear waste processing technology is the fact that it produces pure plutonium, which can be used by terrorists for nuclear warheads. Thus, the security costs are enormous. Pyroprocessing just spits out a bunch of mixed actinides, which are absolutely worthless for warhead use. Of course, I doubt there's a politician out there who even knows what pyroprocessing is, so I don't expect the government to take notice.
 

misshestermoffitt

New Member
It's better than having nuclear waste next door to your house.

Does no one remember 20 short years ago? chernobyl :?: :idea: :o


Wind and solar are unreliable. Wind only works when it's windy, and sun only works when it's sunny. Plus solar is 5x the cost of coal and wind is 2x the cost of coal. Hybrid cars are simply more efficient gasoline-powered cars.

Nuclear energy has the most potential though. We just need to convince people that living in the same state as a nuclear waste repository isn't dangerous.
 

Bongulator

Well-Known Member
And I'm sure Palin won't mind us storing all our nuclear waste in her state. It's not like they're trying to protect the wildlife anyway. If they end up with some twelve-ton flying wolves with tentacles, well, that'll make the helicopter hunting a little more challenging and the trophies much more interesting.
 

Seamaiden

Well-Known Member
Chernobyl was such an anomaly that I honestly don't think it's a good example of typical nuclear energy production or the problems to be found with nuclear energy. I want to send the nuclear waste to Nevada, Las Vegas to be specific. :lol:

I am very pro-nuclear, and this pyro-processing mentioned sounds interesting. But, nuclear, wind, and solar ONLY alleviate electricity production issues. How about getting us mobile, eh? Hydrogen, as an overall technology, does not seem to be there, as from what little I've read on it recently still shows it to be very high cost, using more energy to produce that hydrogen than is returned in making a mobile vehicle.

No one energy source will solve our problems. We must begin a multi-tiered approach. If natural gas prices are doing anything like propane/lp prices (we're on propane up here, and well, phone and electricity are the only utilities delivered to us on demand) then it's not going to be all that cost-effective nor will it realize much of a savings at the dispenser for us. Along with being just as finite a resource as oil, I am incredulous as to its utility for anything other than clean(er) energy.

And either way, Dank just helped me figure out what it was I didn't trust about that elderly gentleman with the smooth Texas drawl.
 

medicineman

New Member
I want to send the nuclear waste to Nevada, Las Vegas to be specific. :lol:

Hmmmm..............I wonder why that is? If you can't outsmart them, just kill them, eh? Don't worry, There are enough armed citizens in Vegas to stop any transport of nuclear waste through out city. And BTW the local politicians would back us all the way. They are already trying to take over a railroad line going through central Nv. for transport purposes. Actually, I'm for storing the waste at Yucca Mountain, Charge an arm and a leg for storage fees, and distribute it to all citizens of Nv, kinda like the oil revenues in Alaska. If you want to burden us with 20,000 years of radio active waste, then pay us the citizens to accept it. If I'm gonna glow in the dark, I want to get paid.
 

Doctor Pot

Well-Known Member
It's better than having nuclear waste next door to your house.

Does no one remember 20 short years ago? chernobyl :?: :idea: :o
The Soviet Union designed their power plants after their reactors that were initially designed for plutonium production, for making warheads. Their reactor designs were terrible, and had very few safety features. Plus, when that incident happened, they were running a test but they had far too few people to be doing that test. It was like a perfect storm of incompetence.

In the early days of aviation, commercial airliner crashes were fairly common. There'd be a couple of them per year anyway. Imagine if we had completely stopped commercial flights after the first crash? These days, there has not been a single commercial airliner crash by an American airline since September 11th, 2001. Before that, I think there were maybe two in the nineties. Mostly this is because we understand aircraft safety much better now, and the same is true for nuclear power plant safety. The new reactor designs have hundreds of failsafes, and even if they all fail they are designed such that they can't reach critical mass.

All of the proposed sites for nuclear waste repositories are like 100 miles from any populations centers and at least 10 miles from any residences, so there wouldn't be nuclear waste stored next door to anyone. Unless you're talking about on-site storage, in which case nuclear waste is stored near major population centers. That's what they do now.
 
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