How the wealthy constantly screw the poor

abandonconflict · Jul 15, 2017

ttystikk said:
try channeling it more constructively.

Your posts are not constructive. You're just following me around demanding I stop criticizing Bernard and tell you who to vote for. It's the same 3 of you who worship Bernie and get butthurt whenever he is criticized.

I don't follow you around and whinge about you not supporting someone you criticize, nor do I turn it into name calling and melodramatic insults. You three are constantly doing it too, swearing you're more progressive than others, almost daily reminding us that your little faction "would have won" or was cheated or blaming the wrong groups for the outcome of the election.

I'm not the only one sick of seeing it. I enjoy ridiculing your hero almost as much as you three enjoy praising him. He's garbage.

ttystikk · Jul 15, 2017

abandonconflict said:
Your posts are not constructive. You're just following me around demanding I stop criticizing Bernard and tell you who to vote for. It's the same 3 of you who worship Bernie and get butthurt whenever he is criticized.

I don't follow you around and whinge about you not supporting someone you criticize.

Then you can't read. I demand no such thing; I am saying that without offering alternatives you are just being a crybaby.

I think that's because you know anyone you suggest would be a joke. If that's incorrect then by all means name some names, crybaby.

abandonconflict · Jul 15, 2017

ttystikk said:
Then you can't read. I demand no such thing; I am saying that without offering alternatives you are just being a crybaby.

I think that's because you know anyone you suggest would be a joke. If that's incorrect then by all means name some names, crybaby.

It is exactly what you're doing. You're demanding I tell you who to vote for and calling names because you can't bear to see your hero criticized. I have repeatedly stated, I have no politician to posit. They're all garbage, ESPECIALLY Bernard. You don't get to demand what I post about. It's one of the reasons nobody likes berners.

ttystikk · Jul 15, 2017

abandonconflict said:
It is exactly what you're doing. You're demanding I tell you who to vote for and calling names because you can't bear to see your hero criticized. I have repeatedly stated, I have no politician to posit. They're all garbage, ESPECIALLY Bernard. You don't get to demand what I post about. It's one of the reasons nobody likes berners.

Your logic is shit; endless criticism with no suggestions.

All you're doing is throwing a noisy, useless tantrum.

The reason I support Mr Sanders is because he represents the closest match to my ideal positions. That is the opposite of an unconscious 'bot' and you can't stand it because the logic is unassailable.

Who would you have me support instead? @UncleBuck seems to like the Cory Booker types and I can't get behind that.

Finally, Mr Sanders is clearly working hard at reaching out to everyone, not just those he thinks might be most receptive to his message. I don't see anyone else on either side of the aisle doing that. Again, if I missed someone, by all means point them out.

You're throwing a useless tantrum because you're against everything and everyone- and then for no good reason you think you deserve attention for it. I'm just treating you like the child your behavior mimics best.

abandonconflict · Jul 15, 2017

ttystikk said:
Your logic is shit; endless criticism with no suggestions.

All you're doing is throwing a noisy, useless tantrum.

The reason I support Mr Sanders is because he represents the closest match to my ideal positions. That is the opposite of an unconscious 'bot' and you can't stand it because the logic is unassailable.

Who would you have me support instead? @UncleBuck seems to like the Cory Booker types and I can't get behind that.

Finally, Mr Sanders is clearly working hard at reaching out to everyone, not just those he thinks might be most receptive to his message. I don't see anyone else on either side of the aisle doing that. Again, if I missed someone, by all means point them out.

You're throwing a useless tantrum because you're against everything and everyone- and then for no good reason you think you deserve attention for it. I'm just treating you like the child your behavior mimics best.

useless tantrum, crybaby, tell me who to vote for, your logic is shit, crybaby, my logic is unassailable, bla bla bla...

That's you.

I wasn't even addressing you, much less tossing any such insults your way. You're following me around. You're demanding I acknowledge and make a suggestion to you. You're the one repeating over and over that I somehow owe you a suggestion as to who to talk about instead of Barnard the imperialist sheepdog.

st0wandgrow · Jul 15, 2017

abandonconflict said:
That's not the least bit true. You just dislike my criticism of Bernard the imperialist sheepdog. I often articulate very clearly my carefully considered and nuanced positions on a great many issues. In fact, I even do so in a civil and respectful manner, though I do not mince words. However if someone is offensive or insults me, I will gladly return fire. Just because I have a flare for insult does not make for fallacy, as I tend to explicate arguments thoroughly before including insults.

"Our Revolution™" (no refunds) was clearly the wrong place to look.

Liberal, progressive, leftist, whatever. Label it whatever you'd like, but the biggest impediment to progress in this country is the big money interests in politics, which touches damn near every issue. Bernie is one of only a handful of politicians that seems willing to take on these corporate interests, and was certainly the only one that was running for potus in 2016.

Was it just a political ploy by Bernie? Do you disagree with my premise and feel that Hillary stood up to corporate interests as well? Please tell me where you disagree. I am open to changing my opinion...

abandonconflict · Jul 15, 2017

st0wandgrow said:
Liberal, progressive, leftist, whatever. Label it whatever you'd like, but the biggest impediment to progress in this country is the big money interests in politics, which touches damn near every issue. Bernie is one of only a handful of politicians that seems willing to take on these corporate interests, and was certainly the only one that was running for potus in 2016.

Was it just a political ploy by Bernie? Do you disagree with my premise and feel that Hillary stood up to corporate interests as well? Please tell me where you disagree. I am open to changing my opinion...

You know what I say to racists after they drop a bunch of casual racism and fallacious ideas about society, evolution, economics etc pertaining to race? I tell them to quit being cowards and being afraid to admit they're racist, because it's not illegal.

Berners found Hillary unpalatable and quite frankly, that's their prerogative. I don't suggest Hillary. However, Bernard the sheepdog did suggest Hillary. If more of you would have listened to him and voted for her, she would likely be president. I don't blame you, you people didn't like her so many of you didn't vote for her. At least cowboy up and accept responsibility for that. "Our Revolution™" (no refunds) is largely to blame for Trump's electoral college win. That's not to say all Berners are to blame which is why I don't go around attacking all Berners. I just attack him. He campaigned for her for months and yet still managed to split the party. Hell I would celebrate it if it hadn't resulted in Trump's election. Damage the DNC all day for all I give a fuck, but at the end of the day, accept responsibility.

BUT NOOOOOOOOO...

Berners are here everyday holier than thou, more progressive than thou, give me free college but idgaf about your personal struggles and idpol. Give me free healthcare but idgaf about drone bombing Syria. Then there's the actual criticism against the man himself. He had antiwar protesters arrested for sitting in to speak to him. I have every right to criticize him. I don't blow up at everyone who objects, but if you follow me around long enough, yeah, I will criticize him more. There was never a time when I would have considered voting for him, even for a moment. He's fake and he's an imperialist sheepdog.

ttystikk · Jul 15, 2017

abandonconflict said:
useless tantrum, crybaby, tell me who to vote for, your logic is shit, crybaby, my logic is unassailable, bla bla bla...

That's you.

I wasn't even addressing you, much less tossing any such insults your way. You're following me around. You're demanding I acknowledge and make a suggestion to you. You're the one repeating over and over that I somehow owe you a suggestion as to who to talk about instead of Barnard the imperialist sheepdog.

Against, against, against.

Nothing useful at all.

I'm criticizing your critical attitude towards those who are working towards solutions when you clearly are not.

Your complaints about Bernie or anyone else on the Left without providing alternatives gives me every right to criticise your negativity.

abandonconflict · Jul 15, 2017

ttystikk said:
I'm criticizing your critical attitude towards those who are working towards solutions

Berners are so confused...

ttystikk · Jul 15, 2017

st0wandgrow said:
Liberal, progressive, leftist, whatever. Label it whatever you'd like, but the biggest impediment to progress in this country is the big money interests in politics, which touches damn near every issue. Bernie is one of only a handful of politicians that seems willing to take on these corporate interests, and was certainly the only one that was running for potus in 2016.

Was it just a political ploy by Bernie? Do you disagree with my premise and feel that Hillary stood up to corporate interests as well? Please tell me where you disagree. I am open to changing my opinion...

But but but you're OBLIGATED to vote for Hillary because she isn't Trump! Any vote for anyone else is a vote for Trump!!!!! :roll:

At least, that's what passes for logic from the likes of @Fogdog and @UncleBuck and see where THAT got us?

Now they want us to support turds like Cory Booker and Tom Perez, 'because selling out to corporate interests is the only way to compete with them'. :spew:

Compared to vomit logic like that, Bernie is a breath of fresh air. Frankly, I'd like to see others on the left debate and challenge him. It would be good for the discussion and might even generate more badly needed publicity. :mrgreen:

In fact, finding those others on the left to hear more leftist/socialist voices is the only reason that I even bothered engaging with abandon logic at all.

ttystikk · Jul 15, 2017

abandonconflict said:
Berners are so confused...

Nah. You have nothing. You just throw poo at passersby from your own mental cage.

Keep throwing your tantrums, child. Maybe eventually you'll figure out how useless it is and join the adults in trying to find solutions to our problems.

abandonconflict · Jul 15, 2017

ttystikk said:
But but but you're OBLIGATED to vote for Hillary because she isn't Trump! Any vote for anyone else is a vote for Trump!!!!!

At least, that's what passes for logic from the likes of @Fogdog and @UncleBuck and see where THAT got us?

Now they want us to support turds like Cory Booker and Tom Perez, 'because selling out to corporate interests is the only way to compete with them'.

Compared to vomit logic like that, Bernie is a breath of fresh air. Frankly, I'd like to see others on the left debate and challenge him. It would be good for the discussion and might even generate more badly needed publicity.

In fact, finding those others on the left to hear more leftist/socialist voices is the only reason that I even bothered engaging with abandon logic at all.

I don't want you to support anyone. You don't have to keep begging me to stop criticizing Bernard. You don't have to keep demanding I tell you who to support. You support the guy who split the DNC and handed Trump the presidency. Hell, good for you! Why are you so ashamed of that if you knew it was going to happen?

ttystikk · Jul 15, 2017

abandonconflict said:
I don't want you to support anyone. You don't have to keep begging me to stop criticizing Bernard. You don't have to keep demanding I tell you who to support. You support the guy who split the DNC and handed Trump the presidency. Hell, good for you! Why are you so ashamed of that if you knew it was going to happen?

Lots and lots of false equivalencies there;

I don't care who you want me to support.
I'm not begging you to stop criticising anyone, I'm holding you accountable for not having anything or anyone to add to the discussion.
I just asked for names; the idea that I'm begging you to tell me who to support is flatly risible arrogance on your part.
I support the candidate who best represents my interests, as is my right. Your poo flinging is certainly no better.
I'm ashamed of nothing. The very fact of Chump in office is the best thing that's happened to the Left in America in my lifetime. YOU'RE the crybaby who's missing this historic opportunity to work with this newly invigorated Movement to find solutions, not me.

Fling some more poo, crybaby.

Fogdog · Jul 15, 2017

abandonconflict said:
Berners are here everyday holier than thou, more progressive than thou, give me free college but idgaf about your personal struggles and idpol. Give me free healthcare but idgaf about drone bombing Syria.

The demand to drop identity politics was the first thing berners said after the election. I thought I was talking to a Republican when @st0wandgrow started ranting about how that was "why" Clinton lost. Also Democrats must give up on social justice if they want to win the WH ever again. It still resonates a cognitive dissonance. What is Democracy without people forming groups to advocate for their own common goals amidst and sometimes against others?

abandonconflict · Jul 15, 2017

ttystikk said:
The very fact of Chump in office is the best thing that's happened to the Left in America in my lifetime.

Did it really hurt so much to be honest? The rest of what you had to say was BS, as evidenced by your name-calling and insults (which I did not return) and by the very obvious fact that you've been following me, attempting to have this shift away from criticism of your lord and savior Bernie Sandwich.

Now that we've established that you objectively support Donald Trump as a boon for the left, I should start insulting you, but I still won't.

ttystikk · Jul 15, 2017

abandonconflict said:
Did it really hurt so much to be honest? The rest of what you had to say was BS, as evidenced by your name-calling and insults (which I did not return) and by the very obvious fact that you've been following me, attempting to have this shift away from criticism of your lord and savior Bernie Sandwich.

Now that we've established that you objectively support Donald Trump as a boon for the left, I should start insulting you, but I still won't.

Your attempts to falsely reframe my arguments fall flat.

Again, you're just flinging poo from your mental cage.

I reject your smear of me as a Trump supporter as a cheap attempt to tell me who to vote for.

I came to you originally for some constructive ideas. You could have just named a few names, it even linked to a webpage, but you didn't. Clearly, you're just a whiner with no ideas or positions you're willing to discuss, defend or debate.

You've now satisfied me that you don't have any ideas, so I'll stop responding when you do. If you can stand it.

And I'll let you and @Fogdog have some privacy; from the looks of his likes, he's just dying to lick your nuts.

Fogdog · Jul 15, 2017

abandonconflict said:
Did it really hurt so much to be honest? The rest of what you had to say was BS, as evidenced by your name-calling and insults (which I did not return) and by the very obvious fact that you've been following me, attempting to have this shift away from criticism of your lord and savior Bernie Sandwich.

Now that we've established that you objectively support Donald Trump as a boon for the left, I should start insulting you, but I still won't.

Dang, you got me to take him off ignore so I could read that bit. Ooof. Back on ignore. WTF? Trump is best thing to happen to the left? He's foaming at the mouth. I don't think anything objective is coming from that source right now. Wise to not start insulting him, it would be like arguing with a child in his current state of mind.

Not saying I agree on all you said and I'm certain you don't agree with all I've said but civility doesn't require full agreement. We have common interests on important issues and that's enough for me. idpol

st0wandgrow · Jul 15, 2017

abandonconflict said:
You know what I say to racists after they drop a bunch of casual racism and fallacious ideas about society, evolution, economics etc pertaining to race? I tell them to quit being cowards and being afraid to admit they're racist, because it's not illegal.

Berners found Hillary unpalatable and quite frankly, that's their prerogative. I don't suggest Hillary. However, Bernard the sheepdog did suggest Hillary. If more of you would have listened to him and voted for her, she would likely be president. I don't blame you, you people didn't like her so many of you didn't vote for her. At least cowboy up and accept responsibility for that. "Our Revolution™" (no refunds) is largely to blame for Trump's electoral college win. That's not to say all Berners are to blame which is why I don't go around attacking all Berners. I just attack him. He campaigned for her for months and yet still managed to split the party. Hell I would celebrate it if it hadn't resulted in Trump's election. Damage the DNC all day for all I give a fuck, but at the end of the day, accept responsibility.

BUT NOOOOOOOOO...

Berners are here everyday holier than thou, more progressive than thou, give me free college but idgaf about your personal struggles and idpol. Give me free healthcare but idgaf about drone bombing Syria. Then there's the actual criticism against the man himself. He had antiwar protesters arrested for sitting in to speak to him. I have every right to criticize him. I don't blow up at everyone who objects, but if you follow me around long enough, yeah, I will criticize him more. There was never a time when I would have considered voting for him, even for a moment. He's fake and he's an imperialist sheepdog.

I openly admit that I did not vote for Hillary, and I'm not ashamed to say so. I don't care if Bernie campaigned for her or not.

Aside from that, the question I asked you was not answered. My support for Bernie is in large part due to his willingness to take on big money interests in politics. I don't see many others willing to do so, at least to the extent that he is, and I certainly didn't feel that Hillary would champion that. Almost every single issue in politics is perverted by corporate dollars, so I feel it's at the heart of everything. I want a leader that will stand up to corporate America, whether that be a man, woman, black, white, Muslim, etc. I don't care who carries the torch, I only care that they're sincere and willing to roll up their sleeves.

Tell me why Bernie isn't that person, and if not him, who?

abandonconflict · Jul 15, 2017

st0wandgrow said:
I openly admit that I did not vote for Hillary, and I'm not ashamed to say so. I don't care if Bernie campaigned for her or not.

Aside from that, the question I asked you was not answered. My support for Bernie is in large part due to his willingness to take on big money interests in politics. I don't see many others willing to do so, at least to the extent that he is, and I certainly didn't feel that Hillary would champion that. Almost every single issue in politics is perverted by corporate dollars, so I feel it's at the heart of everything. I want a leader that will stand up to corporate America, whether that be a man, woman, black, white, Muslim, etc. I don't care who carries the torch, I only care that they're sincere and willing to roll up their sleeves.

Tell me why Bernie isn't that person, and if not him, who?

Bernard is an imperialist sheepdog. He's a fake socialist who has objectively done more harm to the left than any other politician in modern history. He tried to be a Eugene Debs, but Debs is rolling in his grave. I'm not attacking you for supporting him, I don't care who you support. I'm not asking you to respond to my criticism of him. I'm not obligated to answer false dichotomies and loaded questions, or any question for that matter.

I do however appreciate your restraint regarding name-calling where the other guy showed none.

abandonconflict · Jul 15, 2017

Fogdog said:
The demand to drop identity politics was the first thing berners said after the election. I thought I was talking to a Republican when @st0wandgrow started ranting about how that was "why" Clinton lost. Also Democrats must give up on social justice if they want to win the WH ever again. It still resonates a cognitive dissonance. What is Democracy without people forming groups to advocate for their own common goals amidst and sometimes against others?

Fogdog said:
Dang, you got me to take him off ignore so I could read that bit. Ooof. Back on ignore. WTF? Trump is best thing to happen to the left? He's foaming at the mouth. I don't think anything objective is coming from that source right now. Wise to not start insulting him, it would be like arguing with a child in his current state of mind.

Not saying I agree on all you said and I'm certain you don't agree with all I've said but civility doesn't require full agreement. We have common interests on important issues and that's enough for me. idpol

I don't begrudge anyone the right to disagree with me. I have been very careful for a long time (with a few slips) to avoid pushing my admittedly radical left views. But when it comes to idpol and liberationist struggles, you may call me comrade. Even the Trumptards aren't so vigorous about insulting people who dislike their hero. Are they?

How the wealthy constantly screw the poor

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