How To Trick A Bluedog

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Dragline

Well-Known Member
Illegal Smile said:
Scores of democrats have said on and off the record that this is an incremental step toward singlepayer and they won't stop until they get there. .
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I hope so!!!!!! As for the Democrats plan to supposedly "destroy private insurance", that would NEVER be the case. Single payer is what Medicare is. Private insurance companies are making a killing off of medicare supplemental insurance plans because most anything medicare would deny, they deny too! Ive seen this first hand. Medicare denied my mother a particular diabetes meter, but so did Blue Cross. Luckily it was rather inexpensive so it wasn't a big deal to pay out of pocket.

But even in countries like the UK which have a 100% Socialized system where hospitals are government owned and doctors are government employees, they still sell private insurance if you want the extra piece of mind.

Im really sick of the fear mongering. Even IF what you say is true, I would still want someone to explain to me why i should be more concerned about the government handling my health insurance more than I should a for profit insurance company who if i got sick would drop me in a second in favor of more profits if they could.
 
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Dragline

Well-Known Member
doc111 said:
Why is nobody concerned about giving the govt. more control? At what point do we say "Enough!"?
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Im not saying what im about to type is an opinion of yours. But it is the general consensus coming from most "conservatives" in Washington. There is all this talk about "giving the government more control". But it revolves around health insurance of all things. I don't hear anybody whining about our country continuing to perpetuate the military industrial complex. I don't hear any of these "conservatives" whining about the prison industrial complex that has taken over this country. Spending on incarceration having jumped 900% just in the past 25 years! Where is the complaining about that "government control"? Again, not saying these are your opinions. Just my aggravation that the right wing of all things our government forces itself on act as if anything that may hurt INSURANCE COMPANIES the least little bit will cause the utter breakdown of society.

I am VERY conservative with the exception of healthcare and being pro choice. Had I not been witness to the hurt private insurance and medical bills can put on people I might would even take the conservative stance on healthcare too. After all, I have health insurance and am very happy with it. But I have seen too many people who have had their lives destroyed by medical bills. You think it can't happen to you? You better check the fine print on your policy. A friend of my mom's is 100k+ in debt because her insurance company stopped paying after a certain dollar amount. Others have been dropped or denied doctor recommended procedures all in the name of more profits for the insurance company. People fear monger rationing care. We have rationing right now!

Ask somebody who is filing bankruptcy because of medical bills if they fear government run health insurance.

Ask somebody who was unlucky enough to have a "pre existing condition" and paying a premium more than many peoples mortgage IF they can get any at all. Hell, you don't even need a pre existing condition to be paying out the ass. My mom who has always been self employed and purchased her own insurance which for the last few years until she turned 65 was around $750 per month.

Im well aware that could be me one day. People say we have the best healthcare in the world. No, we have some of the best doctors and nurses in the world. But we have some of the shittiest access to them. NOBODY in my opinion should ever go bankrupt because of Cancer or some other disease. But it happens every single day. We are Americans and we should be able to do better than that. If taking care of your fellow Americans isn't being patriotic, I don't know what is. :leaf:
 
doc111

doc111

Well-Known Member
Dragline said:
Im not saying what im about to type is an opinion of yours. But it is the general consensus coming from most "conservatives" in Washington. There is all this talk about "giving the government more control". But it revolves around health insurance of all things. I don't hear anybody whining about our country continuing to perpetuate the military industrial complex. I don't hear any of these "conservatives" whining about the prison industrial complex that has taken over this country. Spending on incarceration having jumped 900% just in the past 25 years! Where is the complaining about that "government control"? Again, not saying these are your opinions. Just my aggravation that the right wing of all things our government forces itself on act as if anything that may hurt INSURANCE COMPANIES the least little bit will cause the utter breakdown of society.

I am VERY conservative with the exception of healthcare and being pro choice. Had I not been witness to the hurt private insurance and medical bills can put on people I might would even take the conservative stance on healthcare too. After all, I have health insurance and am very happy with it. But I have seen too many people who have had their lives destroyed by medical bills. You think it can't happen to you? You better check the fine print on your policy. A friend of my mom's is 100k+ in debt because her insurance company stopped paying after a certain dollar amount. Others have been dropped or denied doctor recommended procedures all in the name of more profits for the insurance company. People fear monger rationing care. We have rationing right now!

Ask somebody who is filing bankruptcy because of medical bills if they fear government run health insurance.

Ask somebody who was unlucky enough to have a "pre existing condition" and paying a premium more than many peoples mortgage IF they can get any at all. Hell, you don't even need a pre existing condition to be paying out the ass. My mom who has always been self employed and purchased her own insurance which for the last few years until she turned 65 was around $750 per month.

Im well aware that could be me one day. People say we have the best healthcare in the world. No, we have some of the best doctors and nurses in the world. But we have some of the shittiest access to them. NOBODY in my opinion should ever go bankrupt because of Cancer or some other disease. But it happens every single day. We are Americans and we should be able to do better than that. If taking care of your fellow Americans isn't being patriotic, I don't know what is. :leaf:
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Trust me, I share your frustration with the Prison Industrail Complex and even this juggernaut of a Military Industrial Complex. I support the military but I am concerned about us becoming dependent on war to fuel our economy. There are a lot of things I don't like about the govt., including the patriot act. Oh wait, didn't Obama extend most of it recently. It doesn't really matter because there isn't that much difference between him and GWB. ;-)
 
doc111

doc111

Well-Known Member
dukeofbaja said:
Again, I think we need to put on our tin foil hats, folks.

It is kinda pointless for us to even have this debate when folks are using words like 'Obamacare'. Words have power. That is why the folks on the right side of this forum are using the term 'nuclear option' rather than 'reconciliation', because which one sounds worse? Why do only 44% of Americans support letting homosexuals serve openly in the army, yet 60% of those same folks support letting gays and lesbians do the same? Words have power. So what are you trying to accomplish when you refer to a 'health insurance reform bill', which more or less describes what we have in front of us, as 'Obamacare'? It is an obvious sign of your bias and sel serving agenda when you do that.

Again, for fuck's sake folks, arguing that this pathetic bill which is in front of us, one which does not even incorporate the hugely popular public option, will 'destroy private health insurance' and make it 'illegal for doctors to operate a private practice and take money for services in competition with Obamacare' is absurd. Not that those statements were made, they were only impled via a slippery slope....

Ahhh fuck it. Useless to try to point out that our health care system is the laughing stock of all other rich capitalist democracies and that all the others who have tried universal socialized health care love it. Utterly useless....
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Yer damn right I'm biased! I don't believe Obamacare will be good for the country. If I thought it is going to change things for the better I would be in full support of it. :lol:
 
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Dragline

Well-Known Member
doc111 said:
Trust me, I share your frustration with the Prison Industrail Complex and even this juggernaut of a Military Industrial Complex. I support the military but I am concerned about us becoming dependent on war to fuel our economy. There are a lot of things I don't like about the govt., including the patriot act. Oh wait, didn't Obama extend most of it recently. It doesn't really matter because there isn't that much difference between him and GWB. ;-)
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To really get technical, Obama extended only part of the Patrio Act and it was far from the worst of it. But that is neither here nor there. I myself am VERY disappointed in Obama. He has showed no balls whatsoever and can partially blame himself for being walked all over by the right wing establishment. He is accused by the right of not being bipartisan when attempting to be bipartisan is part of what got him into this much shit. All he went through with the stimulus to get just 3 Republican votes. What he should have done is said "I was elected by a decisive margin, heres what we are going to do. You can join us or get out of the way". It's exactly what Bush would have done! Nothing Obama is doing is anything he didn't campaign on. The biggest criticism you could really give Obama is he is not being Liberal enough, or at least not as Liberal as he campaigned to be and was elected on!

But you and I agree it appears. He has picked up where Bush left off. Yet one aspect of society touts Bush as a good President all while claiming the sky is falling with Obama in office.
 
dukeofbaja

dukeofbaja

New Member
And I don't think MURDER FOR PROFIT is good for the country. Funny how what you call something has an effect on the debate, and how it is hard to have an honest debate without using honest terms. I don't want OBAMACARE either, the man has enough people seeing to his care. I want universal socialized health care, dammit!
 
I

Illegal Smile

Guest
dukeofbaja said:
And I don't think MURDER FOR PROFIT is good for the country. Funny how what you call something has an effect on the debate, and how it is hard to have an honest debate without using honest terms. I don't want OBAMACARE either, the man has enough people seeing to his care. I want universal socialized health care, dammit!
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Interesting how so many Obamacare supporters openly say they want socialized medicine at the same time the dems struggling to pass Obamacare say, "Oh no, this isn't anything like socialized medicine!" Reminds me of global warming - fraud, lies, govern against the will of the people.
 
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max420thc

Well-Known Member
only 17% or so of the population identifies themselfs as liberals. they are actually a very small vocal minority .
around 40% of the US population identifies themselfs as conservatives.
around 40% of the us population identifies themselfs as independents . or for the tea party..even less the democrats and even less the republicans.
there is a ground swell of center right people in this country right now.and a ground swell of independents .
even in the republican party seats that have been held by progressive republicans are in challenge right now.jd hayworth is running against mccain and hes looking pretty good.
rand paul has a great shot of winning in Kentucky . rand paul is ron pauls son who is a libertarian.
peter shciff is running in Connecticut .im not sure if he will win that is a very loony liberal state.
gov rick perry just won again in texas against a progressive republican.
for those of you silly enough to want single payer health care provided by the government(us tax payers)show me one thing the government touch's it does not turn to complete shit?
that being the case why would i want them and their big nose into health care more than it already is?
the investors and corporations in this country already pay a disproportionate amount of the tax here..the US has the highest corporate tax in the world and companys are fleeing this country in droves because of it .
so..the logical thing for a progressive to do is raise their tax's more to pay for health care.THE REAL UNEMPLOYMENT RATE IS AROUND 21%..
just add some more to it . genius idea.
alot of things can be done to help health care in this country and it wouldnt cost the tax payers a DIME .incase you dolts who support this marxist we have for president havnt noticed THE COUNTRY IS BROKE. just thought id drop you a clue.
 
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Dragline

Well-Known Member
Illegal Smile said:
Interesting how so many Obamacare supporters openly say they want socialized medicine at the same time the dems struggling to pass Obamacare say, "Oh no, this isn't anything like socialized medicine!" Reminds me of global warming - fraud, lies, govern against the will of the people.
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They probably say the current bill isn't socialized medicine because it isn't!!!! Even a public option wasn't socialized medicine, hence the OPTION!!!! But really none of it was "socialized medicine" anyway since none of it had anything to do with medicine. Typical right wing wording to put fear in the minds of the uninformed. What it did have to do is with peoples access to it! At no time were hospitals going to be government owned and doctors government employees. You want actual socialized medicine? Go to the UK!
 
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Well-Known Member
max420thc said:
for those of you silly enough to want single payer health care provided by the government(us tax payers)show me one thing the government touch's it does not turn to complete shit?
that being the case why would i want them and their big nose into health care more than it already is?
the investors and corporations in this country already pay a disproportionate amount of the tax here..the US has the highest corporate tax in the world and companys are fleeing this country in droves because of it .
.
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Well I guess that means our military is complete shit too. Yet the right wing loves throwing money at it. Especially if it can get us a new war. There are still crusty tube socks under the beds of right wingers from 2003.

Yep, we got corporations "fleeing this country in droves" as you put it. But where are they going? India or South America perhaps? So what can we do to compete with them? Well for starters we gotta get rid of these child labor and occupational safety laws. Next we as Americans better tighten the belt. Because India is able to pay roughly a 1/4 of what Americans make to do the same job. So you made $100k last year? Say hello to $25k my friend and your job is back in the good old US of A!!!! But maybe those corporations went to China? So what do we need to do to compete with China? Again, get rid of any child labor or occupational safety laws for starters. Employees are expendable and someone dying in a factory or mine is just part of doing business. Pay pennies on the dollar when compared to an American wage. Then top it off with an oppressive communist government. I dunno, doesn't sound like that sweet of a deal to me. But then again im not a major corporation's CEO tasked with maintaining a strong bottom line.

I think we know none of these corporations have moved to western Europe. Those places are the real hell holes!!! Their "Universal Healthcare" and other SOCIALIST programs. I went to Germany back in 2005 and was sickened by the fact these socialists are able to work less hours for as good or even better pay. Nobody wants a hell hole like that! I want low pay and long hours because that protects my corporations bottom line!

Of those listed. I say we go with Indias model!!! China was ok, but too communist a government. We hate government and no longer want it standing in the way of corporate profits. We want to get rid of regulation all together. If you die on the job, your family will at least be able to say you died free!!! The pay cuts will hurt for a little while. But after we all get bicycles think how fit we will be to enjoy our freedom!


I don't even remember the last time I was this high this early! :eyesmoke:
 
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