I Have A ? For You Religious People.

PadawanBater said:

Show me why. Quite the statement there wh.

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It isn't MY statement... I was just parroting the argument THEY make. I will take it for sport though.


Ever get breathalized by a cop? Unless you blow over on your first attempt, they make you blow again, and again trying to get the reading they are looking for.


Take a fossilized bone and create 20 samples. Send them to 20 labs. Receive your 20 results. See how many match. It is not exactly an exact science. The same lab typically (from my understanding) runs several analysis of a given material to find a mean, which is their result. It is statistically very improbable that another lab will come up with the exact same result. It is also highly subject to manipulation by people with a history of deceit to achieve an anti-God agenda (eg Piltdown man).

wt religeon is the bible from?

jeffchr said:

it is pretty well accepted by science that people and dinosaurs inhabited the earth at different times. the evidence for this comes from many different disciplines and has been analyzed by the finest minds. whoever wrote the misleading bs in the bible is pretty low on my credibility list - just say'n.

you know ultimately, we are all just people. anybody can write anything. you need to use your mind to determine who is credible.

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pretty well accpeted doesnt make it true

Why is there cave drawing with dinosaurs on them, they drew what they seen.

When Alexander the Great (c. 330 BC) and his soldiers marched into India, they found that the Indians worshipped huge hissing reptiles that they kept in caves.

A well-known naturalist of the time, Ulysses Aldrovandus, recorded an encounter between a peasant named Baptista and a dragon whose description fits that of the small dinosaur Tanystropheus. The encounter was on May 13, 1572, near Bologna in Italy, and the peasant killed the dragon.

Show me.


Show me cave drawings with dinosaurs. I need a real source... not a church. Substantiate the source before you post it.

Cave drawings with dinosaurs? Sounds dubious. There's a good 62 million year gap between the earliest stages of human development and the end of the Cretaceous period. Look at it this way, even at our current level of intellect and ingenuity, we would still struggle to deal with fighting off dinosaurs. Given the time of the dinosaurs contained many more carnivorous animals than is on display today, and were not seperated by large bodies of water like we are today, it would have been very difficult to thrive in such an environment. Not to mention the mass planetary exitnction that pretty much wiped everything out.

You have to wonder why a faithless person, would care about the religious beliefs of others. Get a life

Green Cross said:

You have to wonder why a faithless person, would care about the religious beliefs of others. Get a life

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Coming from the side that comes on my property to talk about my beliefs.
Because the religion interferes in authority. Because your beliefs are, by design, intrusive and generally oppressive.


Not to mention, it is silly to us. Your life being governed by something you see as a fairytale which feels compelled to force itself on you begets some ill will.

The bible does not say there were no dinosaurs, by the way.

In fact in Genesis the bible says "Now the earth was empty and without form", but the original hebrew meaning of the word "now", is more accurately translated "became". The earth wasn't created in genesis, it is just an account of this earth age, after the first earth age was destroyed, and the account of the man "adam", and his spiritual relationship with god, and satan begins. Genesis doesn't say Adam was the only man, or the first man. It's all very simple if you know how to study.

what... huh? said:

Coming from the side that comes on my property to talk about my beliefs.
Because the religion interferes in authority. Because your beliefs are, by design, intrusive and generally oppressive.


Not to mention, it is silly to us. Your life being governed by something you see as a fairytale which feels compelled to force itself on you begets some ill will.

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The US has always been and always will be a Christian nation - regardless of what you were taught in some liberal collage, or what you or Obama says - you're in the minority.

The writers of the declaration of independence, makes perfectly clear that our rights come from God, not government, so it's fruitless to try to change the USA into a socialist state

Green Cross said:

The bible does not say there were no dinosaurs, by the way.

In fact in Genesis the bible says "Now the earth was empty and without form", but the original hebrew meaning of the word "now", is more accurately translated "became". The earth wasn't created in genesis, it is just an account of this earth age, after the first earth age was destroyed, and the account of the man "adam", and his spiritual relationship with god, and satan begins. Genesis doesn't say Adam was the only man, or the first man. It's all very simple if you know how to study.

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It is the first line ffs.

Genesis 1:1

In the beginning, God created the heaven and the earth.

Green Cross said:

The US has always been and always will be a Christian nation - regardless of what you were taught in some liberal collage, or what you or Obama says - you're in the minority.

The writers of the declaration of independence, makes perfectly clear that our rights come from God, not government, so it's fruitless to try to change the USA into a socialist state

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The majority of people believe a lot of things I do not believe. That is not intimidating to me. I am as anti-socialist as they come.

LOL @ me being a liberal. That's cute. You get a star for being cute.

Green Cross said:

The US has always been and always will be a Christian nation - regardless of what you were taught in some liberal collage, or what you or Obama says - you're in the minority.

The writers of the declaration of independence, makes perfectly clear that our rights come from God, not government, so it's fruitless to try to change the USA into a socialist state

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That still does not give any one the right to force their beliefs on me NO ONE. I don't care what the framers say my rights are MY rights. They were not given to me by some God they were given to me by no one. The fact that I am a living breathing person gives me the same rights as you or anyone else. I have just as much right in this country as you. Religion should stay personal and have nothing to do in the government. Taking away religion from government will not turn the US into a socialist state it will actually take it into a more democratic state. If Religion was part of the government you have Theocracy which is NOT democratic. Just because a majority of people are religious does not mean you have a right to take away the rights from the minorities. Religion should stay at home, should be something personal which you choose to share with people around you who also by their own will accept the beliefs. Not something you jam down peoples throats just because you view that your God gave people their rights so they must listen to him.

For the record I went to private Catholic schools. Unlike most Catholics, however, I am well versed in the bible.

My college was pretty well balanced... considering the average. (DNF)

You might also note that I came into this argument defending "your side" with the bible... because "my side" was incorrect, IMO, on an issue... not THE issue. I have NOT, however, seen anything that resembles a dino on cave walls.


I need to just sit down for a couple of hours and make my Paul thread.

1st google hit:
http://www.genesispark.org/genpark/ancient/ancient.htm

poopmaster said:

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yes, true, and these dictums troubled me as a child but no more.

fish601 said:

pretty well accpeted doesnt make it true - NOPE BUT IT MAKES THE ALTERNATIVE SOMEWHAT MORE UNLIKELY

Why is there cave drawing with dinosaurs on them, they drew what they seen. CAUSE SOMEBODY DREW THEM?

When Alexander the Great (c. 330 BC) and his soldiers marched into India, they found that the Indians worshipped huge hissing reptiles that they kept in caves. SO THEY SAW ANY NUMBER OF HISSING REPTILES STILL IN EXISTENCE TODAY

A well-known naturalist of the time, Ulysses Aldrovandus, recorded an encounter between a peasant named Baptista and a dragon whose description fits that of the small dinosaur Tanystropheus. The encounter was on May 13, 1572, near Bologna in Italy, and the peasant killed the dragon. THE DESCRIPTION COULD FIT ANY NUMBER OF CREATURES I AM SURE

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it's going to take a lot more than that to dislodge Darwin

Green Cross said:

The US has always been and always will be a Christian nation - regardless of what you were taught in some liberal collage, or what you or Obama says - you're in the minority.

The writers of the declaration of independence, makes perfectly clear that our rights come from God, not government, so it's fruitless to try to change the USA into a socialist state

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The US IS NOT a Christian nation, and the framers were very clear in making the distinction. While they were theists... they were NOT all Christian. The "God" or more usually "Creator" title belongs not only to the Christ.

"No man shall be compelled to frequent or support any religious worship or ministry or shall otherwise suffer on account of his religious opinions or beliefs, but all men shall be free to profess and by argument to maintain, their opinions in matters of religion."

Profess AND BY ARGUMENT maintain their opinions.

Jefferson himself rejected all of the superstition of Christianity... going so far as to write his OWN bible, removing all of the mysticism. Despite the revisionism by the Christians to claim him, he never believed Christ was the son of God. He had a creator he referred to a lot, but no immaculate ChristGod.

"Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity." -Thomas Jefferson, Notes on Virginia, 1782


"Question with boldness even the existence of a god; because if there be one he must approve of the homage of reason more than that of blindfolded fear."
-Thomas Jefferson, letter to Peter Carr, August 10, 1787



"I never submitted the whole system of my opinions to the creed of any party of men whatever in religion, in philosophy, in politics, or in anything else where I was capable of thinking for myself. Such an addiction is the last degradation of a free and moral agent."
-Thomas Jefferson, letter to Francis Hopkinson, March 13, 1789


"History, I believe, furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a free civil government. This marks the lowest grade of ignorance of which their civil as well as religious leaders will always avail themselves for their own purposes"
-Thomas Jefferson to Alexander von Humboldt, Dec. 6, 1813.


Yes brother... listen to your framers.


"The whole history of these books [the Gospels] is so defective and doubtful that it seems vain to attempt minute enquiry into it: and such tricks have been played with their text, and with the texts of other books relating to them, that we have a right, from that cause, to entertain much doubt what parts of them are genuine. In the New Testament there is internal evidence that parts of it have proceeded from an extraordinary man; and that other parts are of the fabric of very inferior minds. It is as easy to separate those parts, as to pick out diamonds from dunghills"
-Thomas Jefferson, letter to John Adams, January 24, 1814


"My opinion is that there would never have been an infidel, if there had never been a priest. The artificial structures they have built on the purest of all moral systems, for the purpose of deriving from it pence and power, revolts those who think for themselves, and who read in that system only what is really there."
-Thomas Jefferson, letter to Mrs. Samuel H. Smith, August, 6, 1816


I could do this all day with Jefferson. It is almost unfair. Madison?

"That diabolical, hell-conceived principle of persecution rages among some; and to their eternal infamy, the clergy can furnish their quota of impas for such business..."
-James Madison, letter to William Bradford, Jr., Jauary 1774

"Ecclesiastical establishments tend to great ignorance and corruption, all of which facilitate the execution of mischievous projects."
- James Madison, letter to William Bradford, Jr., Jauary 1774

"What influence, in fact, have ecclesiastical establishments had on society? In some instances they have been seen to erect a spiritual tyranny on the ruins of the civil authority; on many instances they have been seen upholding the thrones of political tyranny; in no instance have they been the guardians of the liberties of the people. Rulers who wish to subvert the public liberty may have found an established clergy convenient auxiliaries. A just government, instituted to secure and perpetuate it, needs them not."
- Pres. James Madison, A Memorial and Remonstrance, addressed to the General Assembly of the Commonwealth of Virginia, 1785

"
Religious bondage shackles and debilitates the mind and unfits it for every noble enterprize [sic], every expanded prospect."
- James Madison, in a letter to William Bradford, April 1,1774


By all means... come at me with the framers.

jeffchr said:

it's going to take a lot more than that to dislodge Darwin

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how much more?

Engravings in the floor of Carlisle Cathedral appear to be of dinosaurs. They are on the tomb of bishop Richard Bell, who died in 1496

The description of the "Thunder bird" of American Indians matches the descriptions of pterosaurs.[

Descriptions of dragons are widespread and match descriptions of dinosaurs, suggesting that dragons were real creatures and were actually dinosaurs

Dragons appear in the flag of Wales, in traditional Chinese New Years' Day celebrations, and in the Chinese calendar. Every other creature on the calendar is a real creature

An expedition which included Charles W. Gilmore, Curator of Vertebrate Paleontology with the United States National Museum, examined an ancient pictograph which he claimed portrays dinosaurs and man coexisting

The World Book Encyclopedia states that: "The dragons of legend are strangely like actual creatures that have lived in the past. They are much like the great reptiles [dinosaurs] which inhabited the earth long before man is supposed to have appeared on earth." [20]. Dragons exist in the folklore of many European and Asian cultures.[21] World Book Encyclopedia says, "In Europe, dragons are traditionally portrayed as ferocious beasts that represent the evils fought by human beings. But in Asia, especially in China and Japan, the animals are generally considered friendly creatures that ensure good luck and wealth

Living specimens of orders of animals that were believed to have been extinct for millions of years have been found before, such as the Diatomyidae Squirrel , the Wollemi Pine and the Coelacanth

fish601 said:

how much more?

Engravings in the floor of Carlisle Cathedral appear to be of dinosaurs. They are on the tomb of bishop Richard Bell, who died in 1496

The description of the "Thunder bird" of American Indians matches the descriptions of pterosaurs.[

Descriptions of dragons are widespread and match descriptions of dinosaurs, suggesting that dragons were real creatures and were actually dinosaurs

Dragons appear in the flag of Wales, in traditional Chinese New Years' Day celebrations, and in the Chinese calendar. Every other creature on the calendar is a real creature

An expedition which included Charles W. Gilmore, Curator of Vertebrate Paleontology with the United States National Museum, examined an ancient pictograph which he claimed portrays dinosaurs and man coexisting

The World Book Encyclopedia states that: "The dragons of legend are strangely like actual creatures that have lived in the past. They are much like the great reptiles [dinosaurs] which inhabited the earth long before man is supposed to have appeared on earth." [20]. Dragons exist in the folklore of many European and Asian cultures.[21] World Book Encyclopedia says, "In Europe, dragons are traditionally portrayed as ferocious beasts that represent the evils fought by human beings. But in Asia, especially in China and Japan, the animals are generally considered friendly creatures that ensure good luck and wealth

Living specimens of orders of animals that were believed to have been extinct for millions of years have been found before, such as the Diatomyidae Squirrel , the Wollemi Pine and the Coelacanth

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Are you kidding me? Seriously? You think that dinosaurs were running around in the 15th century? I mean... I don't know what to even say about that.

If I draw a dragon now, does that mean I saw one? What if I make up a new creature?

What about mermaids? Are they real too? They span many unrelated cultures.

Flying horses?

9 headed snake people?

Minotaurs? (FEEL THE BEAST... DRINK MINOTAUR!!!)



Reading this again it comes across as remarkably condescending. That wasn't the intent. I respect your RIGHT to opinion, whether or not I respect that opinion. I also appreciate, at least, your willingness to engage the subject. That is a great thing. I wasn't trying to bully you, and you should ignore those who do.

what... huh? said:

Are you kidding me? Seriously? You think that dinosaurs were running around in the 15th century? I mean... I don't know what to even say about that.

If I draw a dragon now, does that mean I saw one? What if I make up a new creature?

What about mermaids? Are they real too? They span many unrelated cultures.

Flying horses?

9 headed snake people?

Minotaurs? (FEEL THE BEAST... DRINK MINOTAUR!!!)



Reading this again it comes across as remarkably condescending. That wasn't the intent. I respect your RIGHT to opinion, whether or not I respect that opinion. I also appreciate, at least, your willingness to engage the subject. That is a great thing. I wasn't trying to bully you, and you should ignore those who do.

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I didnt sit down and make all this up, people alot smarter than me did lol

You dont think its odd that the pics they have on the floor of Carlisle Cathedral look just like dinosaurs? how did they know what dinosaurs looked like?

They had pictures of griffins too in the 1400s.

Looks like the Geico lizard to me. Why do you presume it is huge? Even if it were styled as huge... why would you assume it was any different than any other huge legendary person/animal/tree drawn throughout myths everywhere?

Are you aware of the incredible amount of literature and art we have from the 15th century? Ever hear about D'avinci drawing dinosaurs? The notion is utterly ludicrous. We have history from all over the world... for MUCH longer than that. No mention of dino's.

Plenty of literature about whales, elephants, hippos... and other huge animals... no dinosaurs. You would think they would get a mention.