ICE WAX (bubble hash) with Matt Rize

Dan Kone

Dan Kone

Well-Known Member
Matt Rize said:
Recent independent tests coming out of Oregon show that 80% of hash oils contain concentrated poisonous chemicals, concentrated by the solvents. CO2 being the worst. The dangerous levels are not found in the flowers or hash, as they are not concentrated chemically. I think we can agree on the basic science involved here. Tainted High is the name of the article.
Click to expand...
70-80% of all cold water hash fails micro screenings, including high end full melts.

Matt Rize said:
BHO concentrates toxins fact, sometimes cancerous, like myclobutanil and paclobutrazol, found in dangerous levels, highest in CO2.
Click to expand...
I've never seen a test where PGR's or Eagle 20 extract into a concentrate however merit and forbid definitely do. I suppose if Eagle 20 were sprayed during flowering it would extract too. I'm not sure how that would work with PGR's as they are generally not sprayed. However any bho made with material where the plant was fed PGR's does turn to shit, so you're probably right about that, I've just never seen the dirty test.

You do have a very good point. Pesticides sprayed on flowers do end up in concentrates.

Matt Rize said:
You are worried about natural mycotoxins meanwhile most of the BHO in stores contains poison, making my old joke about BHO being poison generally true. 8 of ten... at which point you might as well avoid all BHO unless you know who farmed it and trust them! Week purging, closed this and that distilled dewaxed, doesnt matter if it contains concentrated toxins. Might as well smoke a joint or some hash.
Click to expand...
Our shop has started testing trim for exactly this reason. I'm not sure 8 out of 10 fail, as I don't think 8 out of 10 growers spray these chemicals on during flowering.

However I do not understand your logic that would lead you to believe these pesiticides wouldn't extract in a method where you're soaking plant material in water. Specifically bifenazate and abamectin break down in water. I'd be pretty surprised if they weren't in most cold water hash. I think the main different here is lack of safety screening on cold water hash.

Matt Rize said:
This will be the last we talk of solvent extracts in this thread, please start a new thread to address any issues or topics you would like to discuss, this is for teaching ice wax techniques. Thank you.
Click to expand...
I did not bring up the topic, I was simply correcting false information.
 
Last edited:
TerpCylia

TerpCylia

Member
Just a thou
Dan Kone said:
70-80% of all cold water hash fails micro screenings, including high end full melts.



I've never seen a test where PGR's or Eagle 20 extract into a concentrate however merit and forbid definitely do. I suppose if Eagle 20 were sprayed during flowering it would extract too. I'm not sure how that would work with PGR's as they are generally not sprayed. However any bho made with material where the plant was fed PGR's does turn to shit, so you're probably right about that, I've just never seen the dirty test.

You do have a very good point. Pesticides sprayed on flowers do end up in concentrates.



Our shop has started testing trim for exactly this reason. I'm not sure 8 out of 10 fail, as I don't think 8 out of 10 growers spray these chemicals on during flowering.

However I do not understand your logic that would lead you to believe these pesiticides wouldn't extract in a method where you're soaking plant material in water. Specifically bifenazate and abamectin break down in water. I'd be pretty surprised if they weren't in most cold water hash. I think the main different here is lack of safety screening on cold water hash.



I did not bring up the topic, I was simply correcting false information.
Click to expand...
Just wanted to point out that in BHO you collect the solvent at the end and concentrate it and its contents. In water hash you filter out the particles by size and the liquid flows through and then it is washed with more water in most cases. There could definitely be toxins in the end product but hardly any that are hydrophilic. This is a point I see a lot of people missing when they refer to bubble being a "solvent" extraction.
 
Dan Kone

Dan Kone

Well-Known Member
TerpCylia said:
Just a thou

Just wanted to point out that in BHO you collect the solvent at the end and concentrate it and its contents. In water hash you filter out the particles by size and the liquid flows through and then it is washed with more water in most cases. There could definitely be toxins in the end product but hardly any that are hydrophilic. This is a point I see a lot of people missing when they refer to bubble being a "solvent" extraction.
Click to expand...
You might be right. We just don't know for sure because people generally don't do those tests on bubble.
 
cannakis

cannakis

Well-Known Member
@Matt Rize in your personal opinion do you prefer solventLess or solvent extract?

Does your ice water method produce As Much or More than with a solvent?

Also what if the material does not seem to have much trichomes, does the Resin still extract or will it be Very minimal?
 
S

St1kybudz

Well-Known Member
Matt Rize said:
And this is the debate. The dispensary peeps I'm down with tell me that fresh is common these days. I've actually just finished a huge run of fresh/frozen trim. But, in all honesty, I still prefer to work with dry trim. The part about dry trim hash equaling garbage: A) their herb could be mediocre B) they could be impatient, working with dry trim requires more patience. C) they could be amateurs.

The quality of the bubble depends on: the quality of the trim, the patience exhibited while separating(waiting), the lack of greed (less agitation), the screens used, and the final rinsing stage.

Full melt bubble can be made from wet or dry trim. The BBK bubble pictured is from dry trim.

More tips to come. Trimming all day, then going up to Kushland to be in the movie. Matt Rize shows his face to the world!
Click to expand...
Every one talks about the dry trim should it be bone dry or cured and should I leave it as is when cut from the plant or should I use the ninja food processor to cut up the trim I've done both and it seams as tho I'm getting little tiny pieces of leaf in the final product? How big should the plant material be when ran to extract the trichombs
 
R&RHashman

R&RHashman

Well-Known Member
everyone has their own preference, that said if you are getting plant matter then I would look at your filtration to find the culprit that or your work area? extraction done in the same area as grinding? loading and unloading?
 
S

St1kybudz

Well-Known Member
R&RHashman said:
everyone has their own preference, that said if you are getting plant matter then I would look at your filtration to find the culprit that or your work area? extraction done in the same area as grinding? loading and unloading?
Click to expand...
I'm talking dust size particles I'm using all mesh bags got 8 of em and I use all 8 from 200 mics + down to 25 mics got a room I do trim n and I do my bubble n the kitchen I keep a towel over the top while it is resting
 
D_Urbmon

D_Urbmon

Well-Known Member
Being gentle helps big time yes. I like to let my dry herb soak for about 10 minutes before I spin.


Also using the pressurized spray bottle that Matt Rize shows in his videos helps to wash contaminant through the bags. Using a pressurized spray bottle is a must IMO.
 
hyroot

hyroot

Well-Known Member
St1kybudz said:
I'm talking dust size particles I'm using all mesh bags got 8 of em and I use all 8 from 200 mics + down to 25 mics got a room I do trim n and I do my bubble n the kitchen I keep a towel over the top while it is resting
Click to expand...
That's size particles will make it through the screens and end up in the hash.

You don't want to break up the trim at all really. Trichomes naturally fall off in cold temps. In water they sink because they're more dense than water.

Like I said be as gentle as can be. If you are too rough with the material. The plant matter will end up in your hash.

Make sure your water is below 40 F
 
TerpCylia

TerpCylia

Member
hyroot said:
The key is to be gentle to trims as much as possible. And use all bags. Also clean the the trichomes / resins
Click to expand...
Matt Rize and Hyroot,

Have you experimented with the spin dry tech for speeding up the bag draining? Seems like you could really minimize and streamline the washing process. This tech is very intriguing, however I imagine depending on the amount of force used there could be some yield loss.

They also have another contraption which I don't think would be as cost effective and would possibly bring the quality down a bit.
 
hyroot

hyroot

Well-Known Member
TerpCylia said:
Matt Rize and Hyroot,

Have you experimented with the spin dry tech for speeding up the bag draining? Seems like you could really minimize and streamline the washing process. This tech is very intriguing, however I imagine depending on the amount of force used there could be some yield loss.

They also have another contraption which I don't think would be as cost effective and would possibly bring the quality down a bit.
Click to expand...

The bags don't go in the washer. Bags go in a bucket. The. Water is drained into the bucket.. Just cut a hole in the bottom of the bucket. Place it on a rack over a rubber maid. It will drain pretty quick that way. You still need to clean the trichomes with a pump sprayer too.
 
D_Urbmon

D_Urbmon

Well-Known Member
It only takes 5-10 seconds to drain a bag though. Seems pretty excessive.


close the top of the bag, lift and drop a couple times. easy peasy.


skip to 35 minutes
 
TerpCylia

TerpCylia

Member
hyroot said:
The bags don't go in the washer. Bags go in a bucket. The. Water is drained into the bucket.. Just cut a hole in the bottom of the bucket. Place it on a rack over a rubber maid. It will drain pretty quick that way. You still need to clean the trichomes with a pump sprayer too.
Click to expand...
watch the video... the bags go into the spin dry side not the water side. I have a complete 5gal washer set up with what you're talking about. and I do shake the bag.

D_Urbmon said:
It only takes 5-10 seconds to drain a bag though. Seems pretty excessive.
close the top of the bag, lift and drop a couple times. easy peasy.
skip to 35 minutes
Click to expand...
I have the standard set up... 5gal Boldtbags washer... Some 25u 90u 190u in a bucket with the bottom cut out over another tub to drain into.

I'm familiar with all of the above techniques.... the bags don't drain fast enough period, I'm pretty sure we all end up waiting for the level to get low enough to actually shake it comfortably. Even when pouring the 5 gallon washer into the bags the 25u and 90u always slow down the process. I can shake a single 25u bag with a couple gallons of water but really that only makes since if you're running a single washer... and it still ends up taking longer than I would like to drain. I want to run more material at the same quality and faster. I think that speeding up the draining process would be a great way of minimizing the time the trichomes spend in the solution as well as the time it take to run material.

I'm not trying to be a punk ass or disrespectful just trying to refine my already good technique that I have learned from all of the masters on this forum and other platforms. Thanks for all effort you guys put into this thread and others as well as the quick responses.
 
hyroot

hyroot

Well-Known Member
TerpCylia said:
watch the video... the bags go into the spin dry side not the water side. I have a complete 5gal washer set up with what you're talking about. and I do shake the bag.



I have the standard set up... 5gal Boldtbags washer... Some 25u 90u 190u in a bucket with the bottom cut out over another tub to drain into.

I'm familiar with all of the above techniques.... the bags don't drain fast enough period, I'm pretty sure we all end up waiting for the level to get low enough to actually shake it comfortably. Even when pouring the 5 gallon washer into the bags the 25u and 90u always slow down the process. I can shake a single 25u bag with a couple gallons of water but really that only makes since if you're running a single washer... and it still ends up taking longer than I would like to drain. I want to run more material at the same quality and faster. I think that speeding up the draining process would be a great way of minimizing the time the trichomes spend in the solution as well as the time it take to run material.

I'm not trying to be a punk ass or disrespectful just trying to refine my already good technique that I have learned from all of the masters on this forum and other platforms. Thanks for all effort you guys put into this thread and others as well as the quick responses.
Click to expand...

i use all 8 bags. You will get lower quality if not using all of them. Half of the time I don't use the 25u. Depends what I pull on the first wash. I remove one bag at a time. Then theres a little water left in the 25u. then shake it. It takes about 30 second to empty.

you pretty much need most of the bags. you can do with out the 90u and the 25u. but not the others., the 73u is always the best.

Again you must be gentle. If you are rough with the material or trichomes you will have lower quality.


quality takes time. never rush it. One batch for me takes 6-8 hours depending on how many times I wash.
 
TerpCylia

TerpCylia

Member
hyroot said:
i use all 8 bags. You will get lower quality if not using all of them. Half of the time I don't use the 25u. Depends what I pull on the first wash. I remove one bag at a time. Then theres a little water left in the 25u. then shake it. It takes about 30 second to empty.

you pretty much need most of the bags. you can do with out the 90u and the 25u. but not the others., the 73u is always the best.

Again you must be gentle. If you are rough with the material or trichomes you will have lower quality.


quality takes time. never rush it. One batch for me takes 6-8 hours depending on how many times I wash.
Click to expand...
So my question is specifically have you tried this technique.... Using full mesh bags in the spin dry side of this unit. I make rosin with all of my melts so using the 90 to 190 is preferable for the quickness(also I'm only doing trim runs as of now and the amount you get from that compared to nugs runs is way lower so consolidating everything into one bag is my preference). I don't smoke any of the fullmelt just press it. I get some really bomb product just looking for a review on this specific product/technique.

With this 6-8 hr process how long are your plant material and trichomes exposed the water in each wash?

Yes, once the bag is in your hand its take a minute or less to drain but with all the other bags you have to scrape and rinse etc. you're soaking the product in the lower bags.

Not using a 25u seems like a waste especially if you're doing this frequently. My 25u is full melt still just a little greener so why would I toss something down the drain that has this kind of quality?

Cheers!
 
hyroot

hyroot

Well-Known Member
TerpCylia said:
So my question is specifically have you tried this technique.... Using full mesh bags in the spin dry side of this unit. I make rosin with all of my melts so using the 90 to 190 is preferable for the quickness(also I'm only doing trim runs as of now and the amount you get from that compared to nugs runs is way lower so consolidating everything into one bag is my preference). I don't smoke any of the fullmelt just press it. I get some really bomb product just looking for a review on this specific product/technique.

With this 6-8 hr process how long are your plant material and trichomes exposed the water in each wash?

Yes, once the bag is in your hand its take a minute or less to drain but with all the other bags you have to scrape and rinse etc. you're soaking the product in the lower bags.

Not using a 25u seems like a waste especially if you're doing this frequently. My 25u is full melt still just a little greener so why would I toss something down the drain that has this kind of quality?

Cheers!
Click to expand...
if you use a 45 you wont get much in a 25. all the micro plant matter ends up in the 25. so most people use it for edibles or rosin. I highly doubt 25u is full melt. maybe 3/4 melt with the 73 and 45 heads in there. even frenchy who only uses 3 bags doesn't use a 25u. he uses 160, 73, 45.

i make ice wax not hash. with rosin i make rosin from flowers. the 190, 160, and the 25 bag if i get anythingg.
material is at 4 min a wash. I place the work bag in the freezer while I clean the trichomes with a pump sprayer.

no i have not done that with washer. It just creates an extra step. I see it more as increasing work because you have to fiddle with and spin the washer with a bag in it while it drains. when i can manually drain it faster.


btw if you have the boldt mesh bags , you don't have a 25u

they're 45, 73, 160

https://boldtbags.com/product/frenchy-full-mesh-5-gallon-bags/

I use bubblebags not boldbags.


you are missing out on some good shit not using all the bags
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top