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leisuree

Member
MC has it right,do a DIY with CXA or Vero COB's,3000k for flower and 5000k for veg. Your design also has way too much 660 nm.
thanks for the feedback. i'm looking into the COBs now and see you get a lot more lumens for your money. one reason i was satisfied with a DIY from rapidLED is because the LEDs are all mounted and solderless. is it difficult to DIY otherwise? it would be my first time
also what ratio would you do for a full cycle light? 1 veg / 2 bloom? 2 veg / 2 bloom? i was thinking two 5000k and two 3000k of the CXA3590.
 
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leisuree

Member
Hey guys I'm in the market for an LED light. Looking for something to illuminate 4x3 area for flowering but I have no clue where to begin looking. My head is spinning already. I'd highly prefer not to DIY as I have little to no electrical knowledge but I am wondering if that just might be the best route. I love value. With time and patience I am confident I would be capable provided I do the research but I am really hoping to have the light for about 4-5 weeks from now. To DIY this thing is a whole new monster which I would like to avoid.

How much could I possibly save by doing a DIY vs purchasing a pre made unit?

If I decide to purchase a premade unit, what companies should I start looking at? The only 2 I know of is Mars Hydro and Advanced LED. The differences in prices and specs of the units they offer are so different I have no clue.

The only thing I think I am certain of is that I want 5w diodes instead of 3w? Please correct me if that is wrong.
from what i know you can save probably around $100 or more per fixture if you decide to DIY depending on who you purchase the light from. some of the better premade units are by Area 51, RapidLED, BML horticulture, lumigrow, bonasiahero / hans, and Advanced. from my understanding the more watts per diode, the better results. as you can see in the discussion above, people are moving towards the COB (chips on board) design now instead of individual diodes. they seem to give you more lumens for your dollar than buying individual LEDs. check out the COBs fom bridgelux and CREE
 

MoodyShoes

Well-Known Member
Hey guys I'm in the market for an LED light. Looking for something to illuminate 4x3 area for flowering but I have no clue where to begin looking. My head is spinning already. I'd highly prefer not to DIY as I have little to no electrical knowledge but I am wondering if that just might be the best route. I love value. With time and patience I am confident I would be capable provided I do the research but I am really hoping to have the light for about 4-5 weeks from now. To DIY this thing is a whole new monster which I would like to avoid.

How much could I possibly save by doing a DIY vs purchasing a pre made unit?

If I decide to purchase a premade unit, what companies should I start looking at? The only 2 I know of is Mars Hydro and Advanced LED. The differences in prices and specs of the units they offer are so different I have no clue.

The only thing I think I am certain of is that I want 5w diodes instead of 3w? Please correct me if that is wrong.
I've only got experience with the Mars II units, but Advanced are supposed to be good, so are Intelligent-Gro LED.

If i were you i'd get 2 x 600w Mars IIs (http://www.ebay.com/itm/MarsHydro-600W-LED-Grow-Light-Full-Spectrum-Flower-LED-Hydroponic-Pro-Lamp-Panel-/290950075690) for that space.

I run 2300w of Mars IIs in a 5x5, so 1200w in a 4x3 is about the same wattage per square foot. The draw at the plug will be about 600w. These are 3w diodes though.

If you really want 5w, i'd get 2 x 700w Mars IIs. - http://www.mars-hydro.com/led-grow-light/mars-ii-series
 

JimmyIndica

Well-Known Member
34 days from seed. Some internodes are 1/2 inch. Still waiting on the other Light from growershouse. Ive been going back and forth and I am gonna go with the illumitex NS.1000 bucks for a 300 watt panel, but oh well its only $. Figure I will be able to do 3 with it. They list the Kind 750 at 4x4 but its only covers a 3x4 on it best day! Good genetics are the first thing to start with though.The end of 2015 is when I m gonna buy multiple panels. Trial n error now. I wanna try the quantum out but they havnt released it in panel form yet. I go back n forth every day what light am I gonna buy. The trubery and 2 honey bananas are gonna be used as mothers for awhile. Just waitin for my sister to bring the new growlab down this weekend so they can go in there! Cheatin fukin patriots! should be playin the colts this week!
 

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JimmyIndica

Well-Known Member
I was reviewing the cali light woks 440 and blackdog 340. Cali has 88 5 waters and blackdog has 140 . Ok so cali actually drives 5 watters and blackdog under drives more 5 waters? am understandin this?
 

JimmyIndica

Well-Known Member
I figure take a chance with Illumitex NS and if it wont do the job? It will be one hellava propagation panel!! I m tellin ya! after seein what these things do for propagation and veg! I am inpressed! Never had branchin and this tight node spacin before ! INCREDABLE!!! Spectrum adjustability probably has a lot do do with it, but F3 spectrum! Perfect! Too me that is anyway....Just havin a hard time findin a grow were the grower kept the canopy ideal!
 
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draz

Well-Known Member
Hi!

Need some advice. I have a cab that I would like to upgrade(downgrade wattage) with some LEDs. The biggest concern is the dimensions of the cab make it difficult to get optimum light coverage unless I get 6x COBs. Also the height is very limited so have to keep the lights fairly close to the canopy. Heat is only a big concern in the summer as I cannot vent to outside.

Current cab(flowering portion):
Light: 250W HPS
Hood: Custom built air cooled with sapphire glass.
Dimensions: 28.5"x18"x36" (WxDxH)

I would like to maintain similar yields and hope to increase quality and reduce heat. I run a perpetual SOG with the plants flowered as soon as they root. Height is typically a bit of a concern (depending on strain, but about to run all new genetics). Also on the far ends of the width the lighting levels are pretty low for me at the moment.

The only 2 options i see at the moment are :
1. 2x 3070 @ 1.4A.
The cost is fantastic but don't really think the coverage will be good enough. Plus I'd have to keep it at ~12" from the canopy which provides me with very little space for the plants.

2. 6x 3070 @ 700ma that I will prob dim to ~ 500 ma.
Approx 3x the price of option 1. Everything else seems great about this config, near perfect light spread. I just dont know how close I could keep the lights at ~20W-30W output.

Lastly I would also likely add some ~730nm lights but would rather not make the system anymore complicated that this.
 

captainmorgan

Well-Known Member
Hi!

Need some advice. I have a cab that I would like to upgrade(downgrade wattage) with some LEDs. The biggest concern is the dimensions of the cab make it difficult to get optimum light coverage unless I get 6x COBs. Also the height is very limited so have to keep the lights fairly close to the canopy. Heat is only a big concern in the summer as I cannot vent to outside.

Current cab(flowering portion):
Light: 250W HPS
Hood: Custom built air cooled with sapphire glass.
Dimensions: 28.5"x18"x36" (WxDxH)

I would like to maintain similar yields and hope to increase quality and reduce heat. I run a perpetual SOG with the plants flowered as soon as they root. Height is typically a bit of a concern (depending on strain, but about to run all new genetics). Also on the far ends of the width the lighting levels are pretty low for me at the moment.

The only 2 options i see at the moment are :
1. 2x 3070 @ 1.4A.
The cost is fantastic but don't really think the coverage will be good enough. Plus I'd have to keep it at ~12" from the canopy which provides me with very little space for the plants.

2. 6x 3070 @ 700ma that I will prob dim to ~ 500 ma.
Approx 3x the price of option 1. Everything else seems great about this config, near perfect light spread. I just dont know how close I could keep the lights at ~20W-30W output.

Lastly I would also likely add some ~730nm lights but would rather not make the system anymore complicated that this.
You can buy or make a separate 730 nm trigger.

It might help to get a larger lower profile pot.

I run 3070's at 1.4 and have run them at 8" but it's hard on the plants and 10" to 12" is more realistic.

It would definitely would be better to run more less intensive sources of light.
 

az2000

Well-Known Member
Also the [3'] height is very limited so have to keep the lights fairly close to the canopy. Heat is only a big concern in the summer as I cannot vent to outside.
If I were you I would use Cree lightbulbs from Home Depot. You have 3.6 sq ft. You need about 30-35w/sq ft. That would be 105-125w. If you used the 9.5w (60w equiv) you would need 11 to 13 bulbs.

It's not the best LED light you can get. But, it's not bad either. I think it's perfect for lighting a short space, or sidelighting any space. I haven't been using it long, but so far I like it. I have a seedling now under 1:1 cool:warm. It's nice and tight, not stretchy. Flowering another under 5 Cree PAR38 spots and some 9.5w "lightbulbs" as sidelighting. It's looking good. (The spots won't work for you in the 3' tall space. Floods might. But, you can also use 60, 70 or 100w equiv bulbs in reflectors. Just a matter of how distributed you want the light to be. I think more distributed is better. But, it's a matter of practicality too.).

I wrote up what I gathered from other threads.
 

draz

Well-Known Member
If I were you I would use Cree lightbulbs from Home Depot. You have 3.6 sq ft. You need about 30-35w/sq ft. That would be 105-125w. If you used the 9.5w (60w equiv) you would need 11 to 13 bulbs.

It's not the best LED light you can get. But, it's not bad either. I think it's perfect for lighting a short space, or sidelighting any space. I haven't been using it long, but so far I like it. I have a seedling now under 1:1 cool:warm. It's nice and tight, not stretchy. Flowering another under 5 Cree PAR38 spots and some 9.5w "lightbulbs" as sidelighting. It's looking good. (The spots won't work for you in the 3' tall space. Floods might. But, you can also use 60, 70 or 100w equiv bulbs in reflectors. Just a matter of how distributed you want the light to be. I think more distributed is better. But, it's a matter of practicality too.).

I wrote up what I gathered from other threads.
Appreciate the feedback but I'm certain this would be a huge yield compromise. I do want to maximize GPW as dealing with wasted heat energy is a bit of a pain for me. Also much less clean than my current setup. I only plan on moving to LED for significant gains (heat reduction, increased quality).
 

az2000

Well-Known Member
Appreciate the feedback but I'm certain this would be a huge yield compromise.
Compared to HPS, I don't think it would be a compromise. The lightbulbs are about 90-100 lm/w. (CFLs are around 65, if that's what you're thinking of in terms of compromise.). I got 1.2g/w the last grow. (155g in 4sq ft. under 30w/sq ft).

I do want to maximize GPW as dealing with wasted heat energy is a bit of a pain for me. Also much less clean than my current setup. I only plan on moving to LED for significant gains (heat reduction, increased quality).
You can certainly do better than the lightbulbs. But, for your limited height, I don't know how without sacrificing vertical space. If you want maximum grow height (as you said), the lightbulbs are a useful option.

I guess the question is whether the reduced vertical growth would make up for the higher efficiency of a COB or some other typical fixture.

Bonsai's Hans panel might be a good choice. Wide angle reflectors might allow it to get closer to the canopy.
 

Heavy Consumer

Well-Known Member
Bonsai's Hans panel might be a good choice. Wide angle reflectors might allow it to get closer to the canopy.
This is what I would have imagined as close to optimum (DIY aside) for a 3ft height restricted space. How come you went to Cree bulbs from Home Depot before Hans? If they were truly better, would that not render all of Hans' R+D meaningless? (It's a genuine question. As you know I'm trying to learn about lighting options as well as other aspects of growing, so any clarification offered in these pages is always useful.)
 

az2000

Well-Known Member
How come you went to Cree bulbs from Home Depot before Hans?
I started with sidelighting but I like the idea of more distributed/diffuse light bathing the plant. Also, I like that they're ubiquitous and interchangeable. After an initial investment in mounting accessories, they're fairly inexpensive. I also like that they're fanless.

If they were truly better, would that not render all of Hans' R+D meaningless?
I don't know. Technology is changing so fast. It seems like COBs are pressuring individual LEDs for the tall greenhouse space. In shorter spaces consumer lightbulbs are the easiest way to bathe a plant with light from all angles. (There's also the SMD5730 strips which I want to play with soon.). So, I don't know where those two things leave fixtures of individual LEDs.

I'm sure Hans uses better diodes than these lightbulbs. But, in a smaller space (2-3' tall plant), it doesn't seem to me like light quality matters so much. For example, being able to get a lot of low-intensity light up close to the plant compensates (IMO) for "inverse square law" losses due to distance from a flat panel suspended above.

I wish Hans would make 10-20w lightbulbs using high-quality diodes.
 

draz

Well-Known Member
Another big item I should add is noise. It must be absolutely silent or pretty darn close, which I have already achieved. The fan I'm using is the nosiest bit and air noise is all you can hear. According to the spec catalog low 20s dB. That Haus panel will be too loud unless I swap out the fan(which I'm not prepared to do, I'd rather DIY the whole thing). I still think a 6x 3070 @ 6" from the canopy would be ideal. Short plants but the COBs should reduce stretching over HPS lighting so I think I should be OK.

Anyone running COBs at ~500-700mA care to give me some dist from canopy thoughts and light penetration depths.

The guy selling the Hans lights is getting 100g from an 80W panel. I'm looking for 2x that as I can get 2-2.5x that with my HPS.
 

Induction87

Active Member
thanks for the feedback. i'm looking into the COBs now and see you get a lot more lumens for your money. one reason i was satisfied with a DIY from rapidLED is because the LEDs are all mounted and solderless. is it difficult to DIY otherwise? it would be my first time
also what ratio would you do for a full cycle light? 1 veg / 2 bloom? 2 veg / 2 bloom? i was thinking two 5000k and two 3000k of the CXA3590.
If you want solderless they make conductive adhesives that I think can be used instead. Try and find one with a high silver content.

As for the ratio, I think that depends on how long you veg. I have read that 3:1 r:b is popular. At least 2:1, flowering is the business end.
 

Induction87

Active Member
As far as AREA 51, I was wondering is there a whole new light fixture thats supposed to be released soon or is it just upgraded led's to be used on the existing fixtures?[/QUOT

A51 told me a new model would be released soon to replace the XGS190, which was discontinued.
 

az2000

Well-Known Member
A51 told me a new model would be released soon to replace the XGS190, which was discontinued.
I wonder if anything's really changing, or if it's just the name. What I mean is: they released the W100 which is supposed to be half an XGS-190. I wonder if they're discontinuing the XGS-190 only to reintroduce it as W190.

I wonder if it's just a move to more consistent naming, or if there's really something different about the W100 (and a larger all-white model which I assume will be called W190 or 200.).
 

captainmorgan

Well-Known Member
I wonder if anything's really changing, or if it's just the name. What I mean is: they released the W100 which is supposed to be half an XGS-190. I wonder if they're discontinuing the XGS-190 only to reintroduce it as W190.

I wonder if it's just a move to more consistent naming, or if there's really something different about the W100 (and a larger all-white model which I assume will be called W190 or 200.).

Area 51 was going to upgrade it's panels to Cree XP-L's and add dimmers but there isn't a consistent supply of XP-L's right now so they are doing a Vero COB panel that is being worked on now.
 
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