"If you do not believe in climate change, you should not be allowed to hold public office"

Fogdog said:

Morocco. yes, solar makes sense. And in Brazil? Maybe we should bulldoze the rain forest? Fracking for natural gas is doing all sorts of interesting things to the US environment. Solar farms in the desert sounds nice but if you've ever spent much time in the desert, it's a fragile ecosystem filled with plants and animals that use the sun too. Then again, where do you put solar in Europe? There is no perfect answer.

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Morocco is selling the power to Europe.

Brazil is already using sugar cane to make ethanol for motor fuel.

Natural gas can be made from biomass, something developing nations in tropical climates have plenty of.

The idea that there's no alternatives but nuclear would be laughable if it weren't so dangerous to our descendants.

Fogdog said:

People need to live and produce food somewhere, too. Also wilderness for plants, animals and a sustainable environment is pretty nice to have. Given space requirements, as well as gaps in time when solar or wind are down, renewable energy can't provide enough power to meet current needs. It's not just about the US, either. Some countries don't have room for large solar installations or wind farms. What do they do?

I'd like to see an honest and open discussion of our options and am pretty sure that nuclear will compare well against any option that includes fossil fuels. I don't think that the nuclear waste issue is insurmountable. But it does need to be addressed in an open and science-based discussion.

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schools and the media make forests and animals seem like they are replaceable in theory when in reality we lose them we lose medicine and technology and can't breath.

in this book Bill goes over some solutions and talks objectively about nuclear power and fracking for gas. he also describes a device built into and above ground that drives a cylinder up a shaft by sun power during the day and "falls" all night driving a generator making electricity, so he touches on quite a few issues but really at the heart we get to the tip of the iceberg.


Unstoppable: Harnessing Science to Change the World by Bill Nye

ginjawarrior said:

http://gehitachiprism.com/what-is-prism/benefits-of-prism/

..

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problem
http://fukushimawatch.com/2015-08-2...ka-from-radiation-polluted-pacific-ocean.html

esh dov ets said:

problem
http://fukushimawatch.com/2015-08-2...ka-from-radiation-polluted-pacific-ocean.html

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From the article;

'The mainstream media has underplayed the severity of the disaster in order to prevent a mass panic and protect the nuclear industry (including General Electric, which owns NBC). While ignorance maintains civility and corporate revenue, it doesn’t allow people to adequately prepare for oncoming disasters.'

OUTLAW CORPORATE CAMPAIGN FINANCE and while we're at it, end the practice of corporate conglomeration of news and information media.

This is no longer the future, it's here and now.

Any questions?

This is the lake I live on. At this time of year there should be 3' of ice . Some bad juju is coming our way folks. I'm pushing 60 and have lived here my whole life and have never seen this shit. I gotta say I'm not unhappy to live in a temperate climate but it scares the hell out of me that my kids will probably see some terrible things happen in their life.

ttystikk said:

Morocco is selling the power to Europe.

Brazil is already using sugar cane to make ethanol for motor fuel.

Natural gas can be made from biomass, something developing nations in tropical climates have plenty of.

The idea that there's no alternatives but nuclear would be laughable if it weren't so dangerous to our descendants.

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Not saying there is no alternative. Just saying that it's debatable whether or not energy captured from the sun can meet all energy needs. I've posted links to this kind of information before. I don't think you read them. It's OK but you don't really know.

esh dov ets said:

schools and the media make forests and animals seem like they are replaceable in theory when in reality we lose them we lose medicine and technology and can't breath.

in this book Bill goes over some solutions and talks objectively about nuclear power and fracking for gas. he also describes a device built into and above ground that drives a cylinder up a shaft by sun power during the day and "falls" all night driving a generator making electricity, so he touches on quite a few issues but really at the heart we get to the tip of the iceberg.


Unstoppable: Harnessing Science to Change the World by Bill Nye

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It's at my library. I'll check it out. Thanks.

Agree about how we treat our environment as if it's some sort of man made and engineered product. It's not. We don't completely understand it know much about it at all.

Fogdog said:

Not saying there is no alternative. Just saying that it's debatable whether or not energy captured from the sun can meet all energy needs. I've posted links to this kind of information before. I don't think you read them. It's OK but you don't really know.

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I read as many as I can, brother. Keep casting those pearls and this swine will keep trying.

Budley Doright said:

View attachment 3901739 This is the lake I live on. At this time of year there should be 3' of ice . Some bad juju is coming our way folks. I'm pushing 60 and have lived here my whole life and have never seen this shit. I gotta say I'm not unhappy to live in a temperate climate but it scares the hell out of me that my kids will probably see some terrible things happen in their life.

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I couldn't have said it better myself.

Mankind has destroyed the civilizations we've built many times throughout history.

The difference this time is that we're doing it on a global scale and there won't be anything left to rebuild with. All of planet Earth, suffering the fate of the Easter Islanders.

ttystikk said:

I read as many as I can, brother. Keep casting those pearls and this swine will keep trying.

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This discussion has given me impetus to dig a little deeper than before. I'm coming to the conclusion that there is no technical barrier to 100% renewable with little if any need for nuclear. Some fossil fuel generation for back-up power might be needed. This paper might be a bit too far on the optimistic side but here is something that refutes what I just posted. It's not the only reference making this claim.

http://www.environmentamerica.org/reports/ame/we-have-power

YUUUGE social-political barriers but the technology is there for 100% renewable. Without nuclear. In the US.

Fogdog said:

This discussion has given me impetus to dig a little deeper than before. I'm coming to the conclusion that there is no technical barrier to 100% renewable with little if any need for nuclear. Some fossil fuel generation for back-up power might be needed. This paper might be a bit too far on the optimistic side but here is something that refutes what I just posted. It's not the only reference making this claim.

http://www.environmentamerica.org/reports/ame/we-have-power

YUUUGE social-political barriers but the technology is there for 100% renewable. Without nuclear. In the US.

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Good article.

Interesting that no mention of biomass energy was made at all, even more renewable energy there.

I have my doubts about the idea of conserving our way to a growing economy. It's never worked that way before and I see no reason to believe it would this time, even if energy efficiency boosting technologies like LED lighting are widely adopted.

ttystikk said:

Good article.

Interesting that no mention of biomass energy was made at all, even more renewable energy there.

I have my doubts about the idea of conserving our way to a growing economy. It's never worked that way before and I see no reason to believe it would this time, even if energy efficiency boosting technologies like LED lighting are widely adopted.

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Biomass still produces CO2.

ttystikk said:

I couldn't have said it better myself.

Mankind has destroyed the civilizations we've built many times throughout history.

The difference this time is that we're doing it on a global scale and there won't be anything left to rebuild with. All of planet Earth, suffering the fate of the Easter Islanders.

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The oldest recorded was Sumer....what was the climate like then again?

This is a good lesson to the Trumptards, despite most of us wanting the same thing, no one on our side blindly accepts a given narrative without research.

esh dov ets said:

schools and the media make forests and animals seem like they are replaceable in theory when in reality we lose them we lose medicine and technology and can't breath.

in this book Bill goes over some solutions and talks objectively about nuclear power and fracking for gas. he also describes a device built into and above ground that drives a cylinder up a shaft by sun power during the day and "falls" all night driving a generator making electricity, so he touches on quite a few issues but really at the heart we get to the tip of the iceberg.


Unstoppable: Harnessing Science to Change the World by Bill Nye

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I like Bill Nye but sometimes he's a bit flaky.

Why store energy as potential energy when you can store it chemically in a much much smaller package?

SneekyNinja said:

Biomass still produces CO2.

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But it carbon neutral except for the manufacturing part.

Budley Doright said:

But it carbon neutral except for the manufacturing part.

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That's the same as saying oil is carbon neutral...

SneekyNinja said:

That's the same as saying oil is carbon neutral...

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Oil underground hasn't released it's carbon yet.

A partial list of products made from Petroleum (144 of 6000 items)

One 42-gallon barrel of oil creates 19.4 gallons of gasoline. The rest (over half) is used to make things like:
Solvents

Diesel fuel

Motor Oil

Bearing Grease

Ink

Floor Wax

Ballpoint Pens

Football Cleats

Upholstery

Sweaters

Boats

Insecticides

Bicycle Tires

Sports Car Bodies

Nail Polish

Fishing lures

Dresses

Tires

Golf Bags

Perfumes

Cassettes

Dishwasher parts

Tool Boxes

Shoe Polish

Motorcycle Helmet

Caulking

Petroleum Jelly

Transparent Tape

CD Player

Faucet Washers

Antiseptics

Clothesline

Curtains

Food Preservatives

Basketballs

Soap

Vitamin Capsules

Antihistamines

Purses

Shoes

Dashboards

Cortisone

Deodorant

Footballs

Putty

Dyes

Panty Hose

Refrigerant

Percolators

Life Jackets

Rubbing Alcohol

Linings

Skis

TV Cabinets

Shag Rugs

Electrician's Tape

Tool Racks

Car Battery Cases

Epoxy

Paint

Mops

Slacks

Insect Repellent

Oil Filters

Umbrellas

Yarn

Fertilizers

Hair Coloring

Roofing

Toilet Seats

Fishing Rods

Lipstick

Denture Adhesive

Linoleum

Ice Cube Trays

Synthetic Rubber

Speakers

Plastic Wood

Electric Blankets

Glycerin

Tennis Rackets

Rubber Cement

Fishing Boots

Dice

Nylon Rope

Candles

Trash Bags

House Paint

Water Pipes

Hand Lotion

Roller Skates

Surf Boards

Shampoo

Wheels

Paint Rollers

Shower Curtains

Guitar Strings

Luggage

Aspirin

Safety Glasses

Antifreeze

Football Helmets

Awnings

Eyeglasses

Clothes

Toothbrushes

Ice Chests

Footballs

Combs

CD's & DVD's

Paint Brushes

Detergents

Vaporizers

Balloons

Sun Glasses

Tents

Heart Valves

Crayons

Parachutes

Telephones

Enamel

Pillows

Dishes

Cameras

Anesthetics

Artificial Turf

Artificial limbs

Bandages

Dentures

Model Cars

Folding Doors

Hair Curlers

Cold cream

Movie film

Soft Contact lenses

Drinking Cups

Fan Belts

Car Enamel

Shaving Cream

Ammonia

Refrigerators

Golf Balls

Toothpaste

Gasoline

http://www.ranken-energy.com/products from petroleum.htm

Well thats just too much stuff to try educating a society to change.