Illuminati is real, and they are more evil than you can imagine.

bundee1 said:

Ive argued this point with my wife for years and she's starting to see the evil as well. It may not be an announced conspiracy/group of people trying to keep everyone down but it seems like too many factors have aligned historically where we always seem to have a RICH elite that seems to stay in power and an oppressed poor. When you start analyzing the moves of politicians in the US and abroad it seems that they share certain financial interests they want to protect. These interest seem to be in opposition to the interests of the people they govern. Cultural, economic, and educational barriers are set in this country which do hurt minorities and increasingly the newly poor white majority (at least the ones educated enough to notice a difference in their lives).

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I agree with much of what you say, but none of this supports a conspiracy of elite evil bent on reducing the population and enacting punishment and humiliation. Greed, class wars, minority oppression, political manipulation; they all exist, but that is very different than the claims being made in this thread.

If we are all here because we know the truth about marijuana, can we at least acknowledge that there is some mass delusion propogated by the people above for whatever their reasons? Isnt that in effect an unspoken conspiracy? We suffer its effects everyday and all we can do is educate people by making them question some of the lies spread by media and the ignorant. Can we question those in power as to why the world is so awful if they are running things correctly?

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There are certainly conspiracy elements to marijuana prohibition. The difference is, we have clear and documented evidence. We can clearly demonstrate motive, mechanisms, and manipulation and logically deconstruct all of the propaganda and false claims made by the opposition. There is no conspiracy of silence, no global cover up, in fact half the population easily sees through the rhetoric. It is a true moral and political failure of our government, but again, it is very different than the claims being made here. The Illuminati have unclear, seemingly conflicting motives, elaborate and counterproductive mechanics, and mysterious almost senseless methods of manipulation. The most striking thing about the NWO conspiracy is the utter lack of evidence, the absence of rationale, and the seemingly jumbled half-baked specifics.

The conclusion that marijuana is harmless and being unjustly prohibited comes from the same application of critical thought that leads us to see that the Illuminati conspiracy is bunk. Both conclusion are based on consistent evaluation of evidence. If we do not allow false assumptions, misinformation, and logical errors we find no good reason to prohibit marijuana, and no good reason to believe the Illuminati exist.

It may not be as easy as pointing a finger at an organized cabal of assholes but throughout history there has been what is accepted as fact until we find out that those people had ulterior selfish motives or the backing of someone else with sinister motives.

My Lai massacre, Tuskeegee experiments, Project MK Ultra. There are truths that are kept from us, hardly ever with the best intentions. This mistrust is nurtured by the repeated actions of those in power, not by the governed. We, the governed return every election with the hopes that the values we've been taught are reflected in the actions of those that lead us. But more and more we find out that those in power have their own agenda and work together, without out knowledge or consent to execute that agenda (wealth, power, oppression of a certain group). Isnt this a conspiracy of sorts? How can a corporation count as an individual?

bundee1 said:

It may not be as easy as pointing a finger at an organized cabal of assholes but throughout history there has been what is accepted as fact until we find out that those people had ulterior selfish motives or the backing of someone else with sinister motives.

My Lai massacre, Tuskeegee experiments, Project MK Ultra. There are truths that are kept from us, hardly ever with the best intentions. This mistrust is nurtured by the repeated actions of those in power, not by the governed. We, the governed return every election with the hopes that the values we've been taught are reflected in the actions of those that lead us. But more and more we find out that those in power have their own agenda and work together, without out knowledge or consent to execute that agenda (wealth, power, oppression of a certain group). Isnt this a conspiracy of sorts? How can a corporation count as an individual?

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I appreciate your sentiment, and I can not answer why a corporation should be considered a person. I too feel passionate about many of the things you list. I am for transparency, I detest greed and dishonesty, and I am saddened by the level of senselessness our population engages in. I believe one of the things we can do fight these situations is educating people. Not only making them aware of these issues, but training them in the proper ways to think. A person can not be expected to intuitively interpret the world around them without making mistakes. Letting people develop into adults without giving them the basic skills needed to avoid thinking errors paves the way for many of these situations. I understand that this can come across as smug or fascist, but I am not talking about forcing people to believe or controlling their thoughts. I am talking about giving them the tools needed to make efficient, informed decisions and to form contentious opinions. This results in people being able to see through bullshit.

Keep in mind there is a difference between a conspiracy and a conspiracy theory. The term can be misleading, because the word theory implies some sort of support for the idea. The defining factor of all conspiracy theories is the complete lack of evidence. Purported evidence is either misinterpreted, made up, or deliberately falsified. Conspiracy theories build up mystery and pile on unexplained coincidences as a substitute for evidence, but in the end never really explain anything at all. They are fan fiction where the author takes extreme liberty and makes any and every assumption needed to support the conclusion. These are not the traits we employ when we manage to uncover true conspiracies. That takes real investigation and must be supported by real facts.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, while conspiracy theories, when you discount all the song and dance rhetoric, can only point to the extraordinary lack of evidence.

Amazing isn't it? This thread shows that wild conspiracy theroies are only making the truth harder to see. ALREADY HAPPENED: the USA is no longer a democracy. Isn't that enough to worry about? TODAY you have a plutocracy in the USA (rule by the wealthy, or power provided by wealth). I guess the same has happened in the EU, it's a global problem.

Part of this "conspiracy" is probably just from math and the way that networks seem to form in nature. Barabasi wrote some interesting stuff on scale-free networks and how they appear in everyday life, here's a little intro from wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scale-free_network It basically tries to explain how some nodes on a network become hubs. That can be a router on the internet or a banker at Goldman Sachs.

Pareto distribution effects how these networks form and I think the Pareto principal was originally an attempt to understand the math of wealth distribution http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pareto_principle

"When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him."

dtp5150 said:

You obviously don't know what level of critical thought and critique is required in such a class. I suggest you sign up for one.

I used to work for a big bank and just bought a house actually. Got a nice big new paid off truck too. See, I can be a good consumerist.

Are homeless people not fit for philosophy? You should actually look up the lives of some of the famous past philosophers before making judgements about someone based on their possessions. We have been taught to only listen to rich people, its pretty fucking disgusting.

its the illuminati who set up a system for only the rich to be blessed and never be liable for anything

when is the last time a millionaire got off from murder? when was the last time a millionaire got the death penalty? OPEN UR FUCKING EYES AND STOP GIVING ME A HARD TIME.

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dont worry about the people saying its bs . Its all right there in front of there faces , if they would open their eyes and see , you and I know they would be singing to a totally different tune , prob a whiney criey type of tune.

oh and its satan that is behind the illuminati plain and simple , Christ is coming to TRULY illuminate the physical world and throw satan in to the darkness for eternity , and thats a looonnngggg time.

It's true that in most every case, apparent conspiracy or not, it all boils down to the hands of a relative few who are large and in charge over the conmmon faceless masses or vast majority. Backing the reason few today really want to be middle class as in the past here in the USA. Most desire to get ahead of the pack and be the few who's hard work and efforts aren't swallowed up in the inflationary curve pertaining to whatever the market will bear. Such want to be ahead, or in charge of influencing market activity instead of being swallowed in the inflationary middle or below. This is all part of why trickle down economics, never really does effectively enough. It's all about those relative few who the vast majority aspire to become. But the math just doesn't add up. When the majority expects to become the few, or so financially enabled and/or favored, the logic falls apart in a dysfunctional and clueless quagmire of distrust and disharmony. Only a few can ever really win the race, is the name of the global scale capitalist game. A complete removal from liberty and justice for all in a land of actual opportunity for everyone. And so the few in charge unwittingly or otherwise are motivated by an incentive to keep the vast majority ignorant. The more educated and street wise the general populace becomes, the more they cannot use the standard fear and keep away tactics long cleverly employed in the past. Makes one wonder the real hidden agenda to why our public education system is failing so miserably, though educaton has been so heavily stressed for decades in the mainstream media mind.

DTP, outstanding video on our education "system". The quote by Wilson at the 2 minute mark sums it up.

Our political "races" are nothing but red herrings to give the illusion of control. I think most people refuse to accept it for what it is out of fear of not knowing what to do outside of conformity. THAt is the problem and what gives THEM power. When it's too late, it's too late.

PetFlora-

Many would think the Financial Tyranny story on your link is over the top nonsense like much of the other 2012 end of the world hype out there. But in fact what's covered exactly fits the global financial picture, reflecting how those in power are seeking any way to deny the problems are as serious as they are in order to sustain consumer confidence and aleviate panic. Indeed, we are facing a most traumatic and irresolvable end of tenably marketable time that will serve to discredit all traditional time leveraging market models sustaining profits over costs/debts worldwide. The main sustenance of capitalism is in the ability to manage and control time leveraging techniques with innovation and other supply/demand structuring tactics. Those who have long held the reigns of control and authority over the mass marketing structure are faced with an irresolavble dilema they will refuse to accept as inevitable. With many of them still assuming the future is for them and their kind of elitist thinking alone. They are the smart and wise, not only those with money. But their agressive and clever tactics are what makes them the money and prestige all aspire to. Surely the future can't really be for the common or poor folks. Who are common or poor exactly because they aren't smart or motivated to achieve, etc. Surely an All-Wise Creator would favor the smart over the poor stupid who aren't self-reliant and successful, etc. And therefore the Bible was likely designed to dupe along such simple minded folks. And only the smart and accomplished overachievers will surely survive into the distant future. It's most evident why these Illuminati and Masonic types become fooled by what appears to befit the human survival of the fittest model.

Why would you think that you can just find some evidence on the Illuminati?
Especially if they are suppose to be the most wealthy in human society??
if you were able to find evidence so easily would they really be something to fear??

I'm not saying i believe in the Illuminati, but I wouldn't be surprised if a group of that nature exist.
Great thread t/s

bundee1 said:

It may not be as easy as pointing a finger at an organized cabal of assholes but throughout history there has been what is accepted as fact until we find out that those people had ulterior selfish motives or the backing of someone else with sinister motives.

My Lai massacre, Tuskeegee experiments, Project MK Ultra. There are truths that are kept from us, hardly ever with the best intentions. This mistrust is nurtured by the repeated actions of those in power, not by the governed. We, the governed return every election with the hopes that the values we've been taught are reflected in the actions of those that lead us. But more and more we find out that those in power have their own agenda and work together, without out knowledge or consent to execute that agenda (wealth, power, oppression of a certain group). Isnt this a conspiracy of sorts? How can a corporation count as an individual?

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any time you have more than one person acting towards a particular goal you have a conspiracy.... There are millions of them out there (every husband and wife that plan a future together)... There are some groups that stand out as holding monopolies as a product, Jews for instance (But I like the Jews, at least I find them interesting and completely harmless).

At every level of everything there is room for people to conspire (we may be doing so now) however their effect or overall productivity is always going to be limited by their piers (and their willingness to get on board) there is one thing you can take solace in, anyone that dominates anything didn't stumble into it.. the top minds got there through critical thinking and its that quality that will keep us on the right path (overall anyway).. as long as we all do the right thing and continue as we advance it will all play out well (for the most part anyway). The only people groomed from birth to become followers are our own children, remember that....

I think its very foolish to think that top 1% who a majority became rich by being as ruthless as possible and exploiting as many people as possible won't come together in-order to monopolize and ensure they will remain at the top for ever.
Who owns the FED?
When you have a bunch of people who pretty much have unlimited money and curropt governments around the world who will do anything for a certain amount of $. You will have some form of conspiracy. The Dollar is not the worlds reserve currency by accident. These people have used the dollar to where its almost worthless compared to what it once was. And they will move on to the next steps of their plans. Its not about Black vs White, Muslim vs Jew, etc that is just to keep us divided. Their aim is for a one world government ruled by one country that they have built in to a superpower in such a short period of time (Israel). The soul saving question is who will be the leader of this world government???

Hell's angle's are part of the Illuminati? Do you understand how stupid those guys are?

Cops would never walk around in this country killing people at will. Do you know how many gun owners are in America? The cops would lose that battle on day one.

Hey InCognition, look up CoIntelPro and tell me whether the cops haven't before.

I personally highly doubt that Hell's Angels are a part of them. We are talking about a group of Billionaire CEO's kind of people rather than a biker gang or am I missing something....

bundee1 said:

Hey InCognition, look up CoIntelPro and tell me whether the cops haven't before.

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He is saying that "cops", as in plural, more than one cop, or a group of cops will go around killing people. In other words he is inferring martial law. If nation-wide martial law occurred, there would likely be no cops, and if there were, plenty of them would die at the hands of the this country's armed citizens.

No group of cops will ever walk around this country killing everyone at free-will.

I don't believe in the 'Illuminati' but there is a certain financial agenda to milk us dry from the moment were born to the moment we die. we work our whole lives for paper money and coins with no physical value, at least in the olden days golden coins were actually worth something.. and credit card companies legally loan shark your pay check and then pass your debts to your next of kin, the money definitely goes upwards, like ants feeding our queens, the queens being, visa, master-card, american express, major banks, microsoft, apple, nike, monsanto, nestle etc

by that reasoning the people with the most money have the most power, and it does seem weird that whenever a common man achieves a 'voice of a generation' status they mysteriously die... tupac, biggie, cobain, lennon, malcolm x, luther king, JFK, etc

it would stand to reason that any common man or rogue worker ant who could rouse the other worker ants against the queen would be eliminated, but a lot of the theories about are plain retarded