Impossible! The deficit is falling as well as unemployment Obama wrecking economy

heckler73

Well-Known Member
Isn't 50+ pages ENOUGH?
I think it's safe to say neither of you will convince the other of anything...
Consider how much ENERGY is being wasted collectively... It's not trivial by any metric. It must be approaching the level of Gigajoules.
And what's the result? What's the goal? Is there one? Will world peace or prosperity for all suddenly break-out at the conclusion?
Is one's ego worth this much waste of server space?
Is anyone else out there actually reading any of this? I gave up long ago... But don't mind me, since this is such a serious discussion. :lol:
Some people have warped priorities, I guess.

duty_calls.png
 

tokeprep

Well-Known Member
Here it is again
[/I][/FONT]

[/INDENT]
[/FONT][/COLOR]

[/LIST]

[/FONT][/COLOR]got article 3 of UCC from Cornell right in front of me....not seeing it partner.....wait could this be what I asked you to link earlier that you have failed to do????

Yep looking pretty bunk partner.
Then you must not be able to read.

3-102: "(a) This Article applies to negotiable instruments. It does not apply to money..."

The definition of "negotiable instrument" is in 3-104. If Federal Reserve Notes are money, then they are not "negotiable instruments" by definition, because Article 3 is inapplicable according to 3-102.

You're looking at exactly the same UCC I am.
 

tokeprep

Well-Known Member
the Federal Reserve Act is the contract facilitating the equity. Judiciary Act establishes competency to return from equity. HAHAHAHA
It's not a contract, it's a piece of legislation enacted by congress. It is the law, enacted pursuant to the sovereign authority delegated to the congress under the constitution of the United States, nota contract.

As I have already demonstrated, the Judiciary Act pieces that you're quoting pertain strictly to maritime and admiralty issues. The supreme court agreed with me and you didn't even bother to comment on it.

they defined legal tender and Constitution defined lawful money wtf else really matters to the common man in common law hahahahaha your philosophy otherwise is bizarre and bunk and pretends your philosophy is more important than man's rights
Quote me that definition of "lawful money" from the constitution. It's only a definition if it says "lawful money" means "x, y, and z." The constitution never purports to define lawful money; not even congress has ever defined it. Your assertions otherwise cannot possibly be substantiated.
 

twostrokenut

Well-Known Member
Isn't 50+ pages ENOUGH?
I think it's safe to say neither of you will convince the other of anything...
Consider how much ENERGY is being wasted collectively... It's not trivial by any metric. It must be approaching the level of Gigajoules.
And what's the result? What's the goal? Is there one? Will world peace or prosperity for all suddenly break-out at the conclusion?
Is one's ego worth this much waste of server space?
Is anyone else out there actually reading any of this? I gave up long ago... But don't mind me, since this is such a serious discussion. :lol:
Some people have warped priorities, I guess.

View attachment 2712458

AGREED. Although this is a blip in server space. And I released a lot less CO2 than I would have otherwise hahaha
 

heckler73

Well-Known Member
AGREED. Although this is a blip in server space. And I released a lot less CO2 than I would have otherwise hahaha
I'm concerned about the poor electrons that are forced to assemble themselves in an effort to present pixels that are purported to be of some greater value.
I suppose if there is one saving grace, it is that most people are using LED/LCD monitors instead of CRTs.
Don't Quantum particles have rights, too? (well... I guess they only have "spin"... freakin anarchic Leptons, they're all probably working for FOX and MSNBC)
 

tokeprep

Well-Known Member
Oh dip laws aren't contracts wonder why they get signed I'm out dumbass!
Do you actually read that constitution you're always talking about or not? "
Every Bill which shall have passed the House of Representatives and the Senate, shall, before it become a Law, be presented to the President of the United States; If he approve he shall sign it, but if not he shall return it, with his Objections to that House in which it shall have originated, who shall enter the Objections at large on their Journal, and proceed to reconsider it."​

It has nothing to do with the law being a contract governed by the common law of contracts.
 

twostrokenut

Well-Known Member
tokeprep said:

  • article 3 says that "money" is not a "negotiable instrument." article 3 also says that a "negotiable instrument" is the same as an "instrument." thus money is not a negotiable instrument or an instrument, because the article says that it isn't applicable to money. That's what makes the definitions irrelevant to federal reserve notes.
then you must not be able to read.

3-102: "(a) this article applies to negotiable instruments. It does not apply to money..."

the definition of "negotiable instrument" is in 3-104. If federal reserve notes are money, then they are not "negotiable instruments" by definition, because article 3 is inapplicable according to 3-102.

You're looking at exactly the same ucc i am.
i already told you it's article 1. 1-201, number 24.

http://www.law.cornell.edu/ucc/1/article1.htm#s1-201.

Your link which I have asked for all along right??? Along with all other links supporting your conspiracy theory horseshit which ends up saying:

"§ 1-102. Scope of Article.This article applies to a transaction to the extent that it is governed by another article of [the Uniform Commercial Code]."


"
§ 1-201. General Definitions.(a) Unless the context otherwise requires, words or phrases defined in this section, or in the additional definitions contained in other articles of [the Uniform Commercial Code] that apply to particular articles or parts thereof, have the meanings stated."




(24) "Money" means a medium of exchange currently authorized or adopted by a domestic or foreign government. The term includes a monetary unit of account established by an intergovernmental organization or by agreement between two or more countries."


Context otherwise requires in article 3 "instruments" ALREADY BEEN THERE DONE THAT BOSSMAN THEY ARE DEMAND NOTES!! It says fucking note right on the front of it NOTE you are arguing in dishonor because you claim authority you cannot provide or explain PERIOD you fail miserably EVERY TIME. I have claimed no authority only to be a COMMON MAN which makes you TRIPLE DISHONORABLE.


MOTION TO END THIS THREAD ON GROUNDS OF DISHONOR!!!
.............................
 

twostrokenut

Well-Known Member
Do you actually read that constitution you're always talking about or not? "
Every Bill which shall have passed the House of Representatives and the Senate, shall, before it become a Law, be presented to the President of the United States; If he approve he shall sign it, but if not he shall return it, with his Objections to that House in which it shall have originated, who shall enter the Objections at large on their Journal, and proceed to reconsider it."​

It has nothing to do with the law being a contract governed by the common law of contracts.
The original contract was with The People who wrote what Money is and what Government is.


tokeprep said:
It's not a contract, it's a piece of legislation enacted by congress. It is the law, enacted pursuant to the sovereign authority delegated to the congress under the constitution of the United States, nota contract.

As I have already demonstrated, the Judiciary Act pieces that you're quoting pertain strictly to maritime and admiralty issues. The supreme court agreed with me and you didn't even bother to comment on it.
The parts of the First Judiciary Act that pertain to maritime/admiralty/ship/vessels that I showed you provide Remedy from maritime jurisdiction in all cases, especially those that have Remedy already written in them, this is why court cites 12usc411 every time in the cases you think support you.

The original sovereign authority that established All US Law is what? The Creator. The Creator created We The People and endowed us with inalienable rights. We The People with our inalienable rights created Government and restricted its rights. It's not the "highest law of the land" for nothing and it is the highest authority of maritime law involving "seizures on land" and maritime commerce relating to the US too. Your supreme court case upholds this perfectly.
tokeprep said:
Quote me that definition of "lawful money" from the constitution. It's only a definition if it says "lawful money" means "x, y, and z." The constitution never purports to define lawful money; not even congress has ever defined it. Your assertions otherwise cannot possibly be substantiated.
It would not do you any good you denounce the Constitution which is the highest law; and all its contained definitions gold and silver coin and bills of credit there ya go.......now go on with your blame america hating nonsense the only argument you have is hating the Constitution for bullshit reasons like slavery.....which was a world problem not an exclusively American problem.

END THE FED AND END THIS THREAD!!!
 

twostrokenut

Well-Known Member
I'm concerned about the poor electrons that are forced to assemble themselves in an effort to present pixels that are purported to be of some greater value.
I suppose if there is one saving grace, it is that most people are using LED/LCD monitors instead of CRTs.
Don't Quantum particles have rights, too? (well... I guess they only have "spin"... freakin anarchic Leptons, they're all probably working for FOX and MSNBC)
You would weep for my Playstation LOL maybe we single them out as solid state particles and give them different money see what happens to their rights HAHAHA
 

tokeprep

Well-Known Member
Your link which I have asked for all along right??? Along with all other links supporting your conspiracy theory horseshit which ends up saying

Context otherwise requires in article 3 "instruments" ALREADY BEEN THERE DONE THAT BOSSMAN THEY ARE DEMAND NOTES!! It says fucking note right on the front of it NOTE you are arguing in dishonor because you claim authority you cannot provide or explain PERIOD you fail miserably EVERY TIME. I have claimed no authority only to be a COMMON MAN which makes you TRIPLE DISHONORABLE.


MOTION TO END THIS THREAD ON GROUNDS OF DISHONOR!!!
.............................
We need not just take my word for it. Let's see what the comments by the people who wrote the statute say: "24. “Money.”  Substantively identical to former Section 1-201.  The test is that of sanction of government, whether by authorization before issue or adoption afterward, which recognizes the circulating medium as a part of the official currency of that government.  The narrow view that money is limited to legal tender is rejected."

And this about "unless the context requires otherwise": "The reference in subsection (a) to the “context” is intended to refer to the context in which the defined term is used in the Uniform Commercial Code.  In other words, the definition applies whenever the defined term is used unless the context in which the defined term is used in the statute indicates that the term was not used in its defined sense."

You should find both here: http://www.law.cornell.edu/ucc/1/ucc1pdf.htm.

So the authors explicitly tell us that the definition isn't supposed to be limited to "legal tender," and context certainly doesn't require that we ignore this definition. Article 3 says it's applicable to "negotiable instruments" (defined to be the same as "instruments") and not money. How does context require a definition other than the definition of money in Article 1? It doesn't. It only does if you're trying to argue that money is a negotiable instrument against a definition that expressly precludes it. It's totally circular.
 

tokeprep

Well-Known Member
The original contract was with The People who wrote what Money is and what Government is.
They didn't write what money was, only who had authority over it.

The parts of the First Judiciary Act that pertain to maritime/admiralty/ship/vessels that I showed you provide Remedy from maritime jurisdiction in all cases, especially those that have Remedy already written in them, this is why court cites 12usc411 every time in the cases you think support you.
Yeah, they cite 12 USC 411, which has no link whatsoever to the Judiciary Act you're talking about. If they meant to cite the Judiciary Act, they would have done so. But they certainly didn't because it's totally unconnected.

Maritime jurisdiction has nothing to do with these cases because they aren't maritime cases! The claim is laughably absurd. You aren't even pretending they're maritime cases, you're just blubbering out of your ass.

The original sovereign authority that established All US Law is what? The Creator. The Creator created We The People and endowed us with inalienable rights. We The People with our inalienable rights created Government and restricted its rights. It's not the "highest law of the land" for nothing and it is the highest authority of maritime law involving "seizures on land" and maritime commerce relating to the US too. Your supreme court case upholds this perfectly.
You're quoting from the Declaration of Independence again, which is not law. The people did nothing but formally announce their intention to rebel in that document; it has no legal effect. The people did grant the federal government powers under the constitution, which is the highest law of the land. Alas, maritime jurisdiction means maritime jurisdiction.

The Judiciary Act doesn't grant the federal government maritime jurisdiction, the constitution does: "The judicial power shall extend to all cases, in law and equity, arising under this Constitution, the laws of the United States...to all cases of admiralty and maritime jurisdiction..." All this means is that federal courts have the power to hear all cases involving admiralty/maritime issues. The Judiciary Act codifies the constitutional grant of original authority to the federal courts but modifies it with the "saving to suitors" clause, which enables litigants to seek common law remedies in state courts despite the constitutional grant of maritime/admiralty jurisdiction to the federal government. In both cases, maritime/admiralty jurisdiction has nothing to do with other kinds of cases. It is limited strictly to the water and to ships, which makes it totally irrelevant to currency redemption.

See the Wikipedia page on admiralty law, which confirms everything I just said:

"Section 2 of Article III of the United States Constitution gives original jurisdiction in admiralty matters to the federal courts. The federal courts have exclusive jurisdiction over most admiralty and maritime claims pursuant to 28 U.S.C. § 1333. Under this statute, federal district courts are granted original jurisdiction over admiralty actions "saving to suitors," a right to file suit for most of these actions in state court.


Despite the savings to suitors clause, certain actions are only permitted to be filed in admiralty in federal court. Those include all in rem maritime actions. This includes suits seeking forfeiture of ships to enforce maritime mortgages and liens, petitions to limit a shipowner's liability to the value of a ship after a major accident, and actions seeking to partition ownership of a ship. However, the vast majority of maritime actions, such as suits for damage to cargo, injuries to seamen, collisions between vessels, wake damage, and maritime pollution cases may be brought in either federal court or state court by virtue of the savings to suitors clause."

It would not do you any good you denounce the Constitution which is the highest law; and all its contained definitions gold and silver coin and bills of credit there ya go.......now go on with your blame america hating nonsense the only argument you have is hating the Constitution for bullshit reasons like slavery.....which was a world problem not an exclusively American problem.


END THE FED AND END THIS THREAD!!!
States may not issue bills of credits; states may only issue gold and silver money. I'm not the one denouncing the constitution, apparently you are by ignoring what it says. I would expect Mr. Definitions to comprehend that "no state" does not mean "the federal government."

See, putting words in my mouth is one of the biggest problems you have. You think that because I recognize the original intent of the constitution it means that I "hate" the constitution. I certainly don't. I think the constitution establishes a brilliant system of government for the United States, and I think that people have evolved to use the constitution and the law to work toward freedom and equality. That does not mean that the framers, hundreds of years earlier, envisioned or intended for a utopia of racial, gender, and sexual harmony to spring from the words they wrote. History makes it exceedingly obvious that the words did not mean what they said, and I'm not oblivious to that painful and tragic reality.
 

Harrekin

Well-Known Member
What's tragic is you keep posting things word for word out of context and can't seem to understand why twostroke keeps pwning you.

That's fucking tragic.
 

tokeprep

Well-Known Member
What's tragic is you keep posting things word for word out of context and can't seem to understand why twostroke keeps pwning you.

That's fucking tragic.
If you think something is out of context, then apparently you can't read either, or you just also have no idea what you're talking about. Both totally plausible.

Because you really should know better than to think there's anything to tax protestor bullshit. If congress had left some legitimate hole in that law that allowed thousands of people to legitimately not pay taxes, they would plug it. Alas, there is no such hole, as should be obvious from this debate.
 

twostrokenut

Well-Known Member
Hey I know you will burst into flames if you get too close to the original copy maybe look at this long enough to figure it out.

"
We the People
of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselvesand our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

The Congress shall have Power To.........

To borrow Money on the credit of the United States;

To coin Money

To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;

No Money shall be drawn from the Treasury, but in Consequence of Appropriations made by Law; and a regular Statement and Account of the Receipts and Expenditures of all public Money shall be published from time to time.

No State shall ............ coin Money; emit Bills of Credit; make any Thing but gold and silver Coin a Tender in Payment of Debts;"


Yup The People promote Welfare.............wouldn't know that these days but the money borrowed to pay benefits is borrowed on future bonds.......taxes. Go spend a couple days and find out what a bill of exchange is in the commercial world.


See where it says Money comes from the Treasury? Clear lawful distinction between legal tender and lawful money. Money comes from surplus of Tender in Payment....it would be Money because Treasury coined it with US logo......states can't coin federal Money...or emit bills of credit Money on US's behalf....they may coin gold and silver as Legal Tender and the US may coin these into Money.
 

twostrokenut

Well-Known Member
If you think something is out of context, then apparently you can't read either, or you just also have no idea what you're talking about. Both totally plausible.

Because you really should know better than to think there's anything to tax protestor bullshit. If congress had left some legitimate hole in that law that allowed thousands of people to legitimately not pay taxes, they would plug it. Alas, there is no such hole, as should be obvious from this debate.

Fork tongued devil.

Tax protestor bullshit? How many times has that been addressed? What have you pointed out that is "out of context" compared to what I have only limited by my interest in caring of your understanding? Last page I busted you misquoting the UCC and me...........yet you scream misquote!! Out of context!!

Convinced you are a stooge.

You have sand in your vagina and its burning is all. Remedy goes back to Magna Carta. Canadians have some too. Let it burn.

It is painfully obvious to anyone still reading this that you are learning as you go along and claiming full understanding as you are skimming......based on your delusions of grandeur having worked in some imaginary place of authority......

wonder what the Karate Kid would have learned if he insisted on knowing everything while he was getting beat up??
 

Samwell Seed Well

Well-Known Member
herr called his quotes out of context . . . . . .and he responded to him saying that im pretty sure, have you read this page yet

What's tragic is you keep posting things word for word out of context and can't seem to understand why twostroke keeps pwning you.

That's fucking tragic.
If you think something is out of context, then apparently you can't read either, or you just also have no idea what you're talking about. Both totally plausible.

Because you really should know better than to think there's anything to tax protestor bullshit. If congress had left some legitimate hole in that law that allowed thousands of people to legitimately not pay taxes, they would plug it. Alas, there is no such hole, as should be obvious from this debate.
 

tokeprep

Well-Known Member
Fork tongued devil.

Tax protestor bullshit? How many times has that been addressed? What have you pointed out that is "out of context" compared to what I have only limited by my interest in caring of your understanding? Last page I busted you misquoting the UCC and me...........yet you scream misquote!! Out of context!!

Convinced you are a stooge.

You have sand in your vagina and its burning is all. Remedy goes back to Magna Carta. Canadians have some too. Let it burn.

It is painfully obvious to anyone still reading this that you are learning as you go along and claiming full understanding as you are skimming......based on your delusions of grandeur having worked in some imaginary place of authority......

wonder what the Karate Kid would have learned if he insisted on knowing everything while he was getting beat up??
The definitions you've used are either totally made up or out of context, you take the constitution out of context, you take statutes out of context, you take court cases out context, you took the UCC out of context...pretty much everything. Why? Because that's what David Merrill did. That's the only way he could legitimize his not paying the taxes he owes. This "lawful money" nonsense has been circulating in tax protestor newsletters for at least three decades now, and probably longer than that.

I didn't misquote the UCC at all. Indeed, I just provided you with the official comment that says the definition of "money" is not even supposed to be limited to "legal tender"! You didn't "bust" me for anything. The word "money" is not out of its defined context in Article 3; it stands alone in its own sentence.

The remedy you're talking about is in state courts and limited solely to maritime and admiralty cases. Again, you haven't done anything to contradict this! You seem to have ignored it.
 

twostrokenut

Well-Known Member
We need not just take my word for it. Let's see what the comments by the people who wrote the statute say: "24. “Money.”  Substantively identical to former Section 1-201.  The test is that of sanction of government, whether by authorization before issue or adoption afterward, which recognizes the circulating medium as a part of the official currency of that government.  The narrow view that money is limited to legal tender is rejected."

And this about "unless the context requires otherwise": "The reference in subsection (a) to the “context” is intended to refer to the context in which the defined term is used in the Uniform Commercial Code.  In other words, the definition applies whenever the defined term is used unless the context in which the defined term is used in the statute indicates that the term was not used in its defined sense."

You should find both here: http://www.law.cornell.edu/ucc/1/ucc1pdf.htm.

So the authors explicitly tell us that the definition isn't supposed to be limited to "legal tender," and context certainly doesn't require that we ignore this definition. Article 3 says it's applicable to "negotiable instruments" (defined to be the same as "instruments") and not money. How does context require a definition other than the definition of money in Article 1? It doesn't. It only does if you're trying to argue that money is a negotiable instrument against a definition that expressly precludes it. It's totally circular.
Authors of UCC are not competent to redefine established government law, hence the provisions for "instrument". UCC authors opinions on what is legal tender simply don't matter at all. States adopting UCC cannot override what is legal tender based on authors opinion.
 
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