Inda-gro Induction...

CharlieBud said:

So you are saying the "lag" is due to spectrum and not dark cycle change?

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Too many variable's too honestly answer this IMO...........If in your an absolute controlled environment (lab) this "metabolic lag" phenomenon spliff is referring to does happen do too the spectrum shift(mh-hps), yet you're also correct that dark cycle(reduced light absorbtion/decreased photosynthetic action) change obviously slows(lag) the plants growth/shifts into flower......some growers mistakenly change their 12/12 cycle late(allowing too much of a dark period) into the first day of flower causing huge stress on the plants(hermies!!) and other metabolic issues............

Maybe a botanist can chime in on this.......................the fucking "like" button is back

what i was attempting to explain there was something that i learned in my botany class a few terms ago in college. botany is a passion, and horticulture is a major.

the dark exposure allows the phytochrome to to shift from the red to the far red variant, therefore inducing the shift in the plant from vegetative growth to reproductive growth. this is a mechanic that is indirectly tied into the plants preferred spectrum at that time. spectrum preference related to if it's the chlorophyll-a or chlorophyll-b that is providing the plant with the most photosynthetic radiation.

here's a pic showing the differences in spectral absorption between chlorophyll-a and -b:
View attachment 2168963


from wiki:
Chlorophyll b is a form of chlorophyll. Chlorophyll b helps in photosynthesis by absorbing light energy. It is more soluble than chlorophyll a in polar solvents because of its carbonyl group. Its color is yellow, and it primarily absorbs blue light.

this indicates that in veg, as MH has been the traditional source for decades, that there is a common understanding among cannabis growers (despite them not also being botanists) that veg growth relies most on -b stimulation.


also from wiki:
Chlorophyll a is a specific form of chlorophyll used in oxygenic photosynthesis. It absorbs most energy from wavelengths of violet-blue and orange-red light.

(please pardon the wiki links here. they weren't allowed in college, but it's more convenient for me to share this with you in this manner than trying to scan my old textbooks.)


this continues the understanding that in bloom, we need to add red to the spectrum. this is because the -a pigment is able to absorb that and provide the plant with the additional energy that budding requires.

there are other pigments that plants use to additionally support photosynthesis, such as carotene, anthocyanin, xanthophyll... these are responsible for the oranges, purples, and yellows respectively. photosynthesis relies on these pigments more when the plant is late in fall. these pigments are the reason leaves change in autumn or why herb purples when ripening.

all of these pigments are, IMO, reasons to give your indoor plants a FULL spectrum at all times, not just a bi-spectrum (or even worse, a single spectrum) light exposure.

i'd love to go on here. i love sharing knowledge with others, and botany is my favorite topic; but i have a bunch of work that needs to get done today.

Charlie: this info is out there on the internet! true I had to go into debt with student loans to learn what i am now sharing with you, but there are certainly other avenues out there for you to continue your own education on these matters.

wow... so i just got off the phone with a guy at the local hydro shop. i won't name him or identify the store he works at, as i count him as a friendly acquaintance and he gives me good deals on the items that i purchase at his store.

but, here's the deal with the convo...

i called him up to see if they got the tent hanging brackets that i want for my light mover. apparently my request had been passed on to the corporate office, so they weren't in yet. i then asked why it was that they carried only a few items from LightRail; that the had a few kits, a replacement drive motor, and a couple other accessories, but not these tent brackets, considering they also sold tents... then i asked if light movers were simply something that not too many people purchased.

he answered that whenever a customer asks about them, he just tells them to get additional 1000w lamps.

i told him that i understood that line of reasoning from grow shop employee to a customer, but for his own garden, he should really consider them - giving him reasons why and offering my garden as evidence. that's when he mentioned that he does, and that he needed to get off the phone...

LOL

well, i just wanted to share that with everyone... off to find some food.

ttfn.

Thank you for keeping it real! Other photofactor-pigments "such as carotene, anthocyanin, xanthophyll" exist mostly to release hormones and release specialized compounds for specific purposes through out the plant. Without the use of these specialized pigments plants would be unable to properly "understand" their environment as it changes. As the seasons change different ratios of light are being out put towards the plants. During the peak of summer the sun is at a color temperature of~5850k throughout the day flexing from nothing to ~6000k. As the season rolls on and changes the color temperature changes based on the amount of exposure to the atmosphere the light has to pass through.
Example: if your days are shorter the sun still rolls through the sky at the same rate and ,though the days are not as long, the proportion of time that the sun is setting increases, decreasing in color temperature and luminosity even though the sun isn't literally getting dimmer. It's color temperature simply decreases until all we receive is near infared. This event, the setting of the sun, occurs for the same amount of time every day, twice a day if you include the sunrise, and because the days are longer in the summer the average throughout the day can be as high as 6000k, if you live up in the mountains it will be closer to 10000k and contain more UV light.

I feel like most growers take this bit of information for granted. Falsely assuming that you simply need to provide light for the Chlorophyll in your leaf tissues to subsist. This is not enough for a plant to have a real life. Hence why NASA abandoned the use of exclusively Red and Blue light as it was inferior to White light with Blue (during veg) and with Red (during flowering). They used Apache Grow Lights to conduct all of their most recent tests. The point is that too much of a good thing can be a bad thing unless it's moderated with the right thing.
Keep Growing,
ILovePlants

NASA is interested in lights that will grow vegetables in space, where heat and electrical concerns are of substantially greater concern than they are in the typical terrestrial grow room. additionally, the vegetables that they are interested in do not necessarily benefit from a spectrum that has a decent proportion of UV-B output (ie: Cannabis). perhaps with NASA being their chief customer, they have priced their panels in proper accordance with the government's propensity for overspending.

compared to a Pro-420-PAR, those LEDs:
cost 50% more
average less than half the PPFD (they put out about 40% more than a Pro-100-PAR at a similar canopy height)
and at that, their output is not as full of a spectrum.
put out zero UV-B. a Pro-420-PAR puts out 3% of its spectrum in the 290-320nm range. as noted above, as well as in a previous post in this thread, you will note that cannabis likes UV-B exposure during bloom, it increases trichome density, size, potency, etc.
come with a 1 year limited warranty. Inda-Gro gives a 10 year warranty.
are guaranteed for 50,000 hours. Inda-Gro claims a 100,000 hour rating. i have no idea if they will actually last that long, but even if we only get 70% lifespan from these different technologies, the EFDL lamps will still last twice as long, and still have 9 additional years on the warranty.

they claim: and also:
so, at 17 inches, they are equivalent to a 1000w HID? i'd imagine that a 1000w HID at an appropriate height from the canopy could cover quite a few more plants than this device which boasts a "
they use 1w LEDs, too. the industry has moved on to 5w LEDs by now...

personally, i don't see myself dropping $1100 - $1200 per panel.

I'll be getting an apache tech and let you know how it works first hand. They have their reasons for using 1w, they use led chips nobody else uses, they don't cost 50% more than a par420, it makes sense they put out less par at 1/3 of the total wattage of a par420, there is so much more that spliff is just assumming based off glancing over an outdated website...their warranty is 3 years or longer (i forget how long the rep said) my point here is that I am going to try out the apache tech and spliff has no first hand experience with them and when they are compared with other leds they stand out in their design and build, and we will find out about results. Sorry, just don't like seeing one sided sories when its only half the truth.

puffenuff said:

I'll be getting an apache tech and let you know how it works first hand. They have their reasons for using 1w, they use led chips nobody else uses, they don't cost 50% more than a par420, it makes sense they put out less par at 1/3 of the total wattage of a par420, there is so much more that spliff is just assumming based off glancing over an outdated website...their warranty is 3 years or longer (i forget how long the rep said) my point here is that I am going to try out the apache tech and spliff has no first hand experience with them and when they are compared with other leds they stand out in their design and build, and we will find out about results. Sorry, just don't like seeing one sided sories when its only half the truth.

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Share a link to your grow so we can follow the progress?

YouGrowBoy said:

Share a link to your grow so we can follow the progress?

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It will be here in this section of riu just like my others. won't be for month or so though until my current crop is harvested and I get the new plants vegged.

puffenuff said:

I'll be getting an apache tech and let you know how it works first hand. They have their reasons for using 1w, they use led chips nobody else uses, they don't cost 50% more than a par420, it makes sense they put out less par at 1/3 of the total wattage of a par420, there is so much more that spliff is just assumming based off glancing over an outdated website...their warranty is 3 years or longer (i forget how long the rep said) my point here is that I am going to try out the apache tech and spliff has no first hand experience with them and when they are compared with other leds they stand out in their design and build, and we will find out about results. Sorry, just don't like seeing one sided sories when its only half the truth.

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yes, i have no first hand experience with them, and for that i am interested in your upcoming grow with that technology.

as for my "one sided" story, i believe that it was actually a 2-part; i was, after all, running a 600w HPS vs a 420w PAR. i am only able to speak on what i know, whether from experience or schooling. as for the content of my posts on this thread, it has reflected what i know. i am always open to learning. so please keep us up to date with your upcoming grow using these panels. i still think that they are expensive for my needs, but they may be great; i can't afford to know for myself so please enlighten us with your experience. for your sake, i hope that they turn out to be worth the buy in.

personally, i'd be thrilled to see a comparison grow between those panels and other alternative lighting technologies such as Inda-Gro EFDL and even the Luxim/Gavita/Chameleon LEPs.

well... actually, i have heard that there is such a vs grow in the making, and hopefully all of those manufacturers will be able to get behind it. i know that Inda-Gro is.

but for now, perhaps you could clarify some thing for me? on the matter of you saying that "it makes sense that they..." can you please follow up that opinion with a valid reason as to why it makes sense to you? i need to know why it makes sense to spend a lot more to get what looks like a lot less.

oh, and i do see them at greners, for $985-$1074. that's still more than a 420PAR, and it still only covers a 2x3 foot area...

i am just expressing questions and concerns that i have at this point. again, i'd love to see them put to work. hopefully they will participate in this shoot-out that is trying to come together.

How are the ladies duude? ?

heh... 4 of them are a-hangin

the ones that are drying look really good so far. amazing trichomes on them.

the PDP is still rockin it out in the tent solo style. i have the HPS offline now, and the dehumidifier out of the room too. day temp is in the 79F ballpark with about 300cfm of exhaust keeping RH at 45% or so. at this point, i'm suspecting that she'll want to come down around sunday or so.

i shot a new video of her last night. i apologize for the potential blurriness as i shot it with my phone, and i haven't seen it on the PC yet... i'll upload it to youtube next and post it here shortly.


and here it is:
[video=youtube;Gbs0NKzwkmE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gbs0NKzwkmE[/video]

wow... i really need a better camera... it looks like i shot that video with a calculator.

^^^Nah it's not that bad..........you can still see the beauty of these girls through the occasional blurryness.....I can smell them from here!

Splifferous said:

yes, i have no first hand experience with them, and for that i am interested in your upcoming grow with that technology.

as for my "one sided" story, i believe that it was actually a 2-part; i was, after all, running a 600w HPS vs a 420w PAR. i am only able to speak on what i know, whether from experience or schooling. as for the content of my posts on this thread, it has reflected what i know. i am always open to learning. so please keep us up to date with your upcoming grow using these panels. i still think that they are expensive for my needs, but they may be great; i can't afford to know for myself so please enlighten us with your experience. for your sake, i hope that they turn out to be worth the buy in.

personally, i'd be thrilled to see a comparison grow between those panels and other alternative lighting technologies such as Inda-Gro EFDL and even the Luxim/Gavita/Chameleon LEPs.

well... actually, i have heard that there is such a vs grow in the making, and hopefully all of those manufacturers will be able to get behind it. i know that Inda-Gro is.

but for now, perhaps you could clarify some thing for me? on the matter of you saying that "it makes sense that they..." can you please follow up that opinion with a valid reason as to why it makes sense to you? i need to know why it makes sense to spend a lot more to get what looks like a lot less.

oh, and i do see them at greners, for $985-$1074. that's still more than a 420PAR, and it still only covers a 2x3 foot area...

i am just expressing questions and concerns that i have at this point. again, i'd love to see them put to work. hopefully they will participate in this shoot-out that is trying to come together.

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Yo spliff! Sorry, not trying to hijack the indagro thread with a bunch of led talk. Only reason I chimed in was because it seemed like you were comparing the apache tech to the indagro for no other reason than to dismiss it as a viable option for growers. I thought the guy who brought up apache tech only did so in saying that he thought white/full spectrum were the way the led industry should be going, ala apache tech. I appreciate all the knowledge you've been sharing in this thread, the community needs more induction growers like yourself. keep it up.

I'd be thrilled with some comparison grows too, if i had the time and energy I'd love to do a led vs induction vs hps vs plasma comparison. maybe one day when timing is better.

what i said about "it makes sense that the leds would put out less par at roughly 1/3 the wattage" I was beyond baked when I wrote that, and just meant that in general, you'd expect something with more horsepower to go faster. As for spending more on something that seems like less, well, that is all in the eye of the beholder. I don't feel that selling price is outlandish and my goal is to maximize results with as few as watts as possible, regardless of the upfront cost. if these lights perform like I've heard they do, then it will be a great investment for me.

The cheapest I've found them is for just under $800. I've also spoken directly with the owner and another customer rep who give discount codes as well. yeah, the footprint isn't exactly the best, but remember, it's only 120w so I'd say that's an impressive footprint considering the lens angles are just 14 degrees, hoping that makes for some serious penetration.

I'm glad you express concerns about leds; likewise, I have my concerns about induction and hope to see some great results out of this thread. What exactly is this shoot-out you are referring to?

Peace and happy growing. Now back to the induction show!

Looking the shit there spliff well done! so you harvested the pdp?

not yet, my friend. she's swelling like a beast tho!

i watered her 2 days ago with expectations that it would carry her 4, maybe 5 days. especially with the lower temp in there with the HPS offline now.

na. she killed a gallon and a half in 2 days (she's in a #5 short container, for reference). she was borderline tonight, so i let her stay dry for now. i'm still thinking she might come down this sunday, but shes still pushing a visually noticeable amount of fresh pistils, calyxes, and trichomes on a daily basis.

imo, cannabis cultivation relies most on patience. after 5-6 weeks of veg and over 50 days of bloom, she's in the habit of doing what i want her to... might as well give her as much time as i can to do that.

but on the other hand, once i get her down, i can douche the tent and move veg in there. i'm gonna run the 2 200w and the 420 in veg, prolly the 200s on the right and left sides, and the 420 on the mover in between.

that's right, EFDL only veg... again. this time it'll be 820w of it, should be amazing. hopefully i can afford my 2nd 420 soon.

What plants are getting a run spliff?

for the next bloom? well, veg has (at a pretty decent size) a Raspberry Kush, a couple Obama Kushes, a couple Blue City Diesel. i have a few tweens; a Mendo Purp, a Cannatonic, and a Blue Dream. and a bunch of clones; PDPs, Agent Oranges, Raspberry Kushes, and a White Fire.

in this next rotation, i'm aiming to go with 3 or 4, and get them on par with what the PDP was sizewise before flipping. i really want a PDP in there, but they're all on the small side still. i also really, really want a Cannatonic in there, but she's only now getting to the size where i can pop some clones, then i need to train her for her scrog grid. It'll probably just be a matter of who's ready first...

my plans are then within the first month of that bloom rotation going that i will be (hopefully) able to expand into a second 5x10 tent and a couple more 420s on movers. then i'll start bloom on another staggered rotation of 3-4 more.


well, time to go spy on veg for a bit! be well everyone!

Splifferous said:

Obama Kushes

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As a MMJ patient, I'm insulted that he as a strain named after him. May as well name one after Nixon to thank him for the DEA.

i agree there, but alas i did not name the strain. i chose it because i liked it, and it was available to me.

i am also growing Agent Orange for similar reasons, but several Vietnam era vets that i know find the name of that strain to be a put-off. in both cases i'd love these strains to be named differently, but i don't presume that it's my place to do that.

as a side note, i find it further ironic that Obama's initials are BHO (Barack Hussein Obama). at least his birthday isn't 7/10... that would have about killed it for me.


ps: a lil obama pic there for ya, if ya like.