Inda-gro Induction...

SCARHOLE

Well-Known Member
IG spent a significant amount of time and money to be able to shield emitted and radiated levels that fall below commercial and the more stringent residential levels that FCC allows equipment to operate at. This was no small undertaking since the electromagnets are essentially antenna's. You can see all the tests and results that are performed which shows EMI suppression testing at:

http://www.inda-gro.com/IG/sites/default/files/pdf/plant-lighting-resource/5-Understanding EMI.pdf

These suppression levels are below most HID lamp/ballast combinations and ever other induction lamp mfg that was tested for area and grow lighting mfg's, many who did not pass the looser commercial levels. If you're running over 5 digital lights you should be aware of the lights EMI values just in case. You don't want a knock on the door asking why your home/business is creating wireless interference.
I had a friend run lots of plasma sulphur induction lamps.
Fcc shown up to see about his pirate radio station?
Guess the high freq an fuck with fiber optic lines in his yard or something ?

Guy was legal # an didn't go to jail in cali, but sent out a waring for poorly shielded lamps....

Figured I'd share...
 

chazbolin

Well-Known Member
So the DE crowd (commercial growers mostly) has influenced this little development. The temps from the DE prohibit getting them any closer than about 36" to the canopy and I've seen them as much as 48" from the canopy. Since the benefits of broad spectrum are well known in terms of increases in quality as well as the benefits of adding 660nm at lights on for chlorophyll A absorption and 730nm at lights out for Pfr there was this impasse on how to effectively take the energy from DE and not throw it all over the backs of the 420's. Most DE reflectors, by design are going to cast a wide throw as they were meant for greenhouse applications. Narrowing that throw and adding a reflector below the DE to redirect that energy increases the PPFD levels under the 420's by ~20% average on the 4 x 4 area of coverage and blends the overall coverage in a 4 x 12 quite homogeneously. Now what to call that little reflector add on that for $15.00 can be added to any DE reflector with a design area coverage of 5 x 5?
 

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PSUAGRO.

Well-Known Member
Is that de hps the hottest thing you've ever been around? ;-).......saw one recently and my God it puts out some heat.
Granted its been some time since I used a thouie, but still....
 
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hyroot

Well-Known Member
Is that de hps the hottest thing you've ever been around? ;-).......saw one recently and my God it puts out some heat.
Granted its been some time since I used a thouie, but still....
they are hot. Especially with a ballast overhead. Great for those grow ops up north this time of year. In the summer they are probably a bitch to deal with.
 

chazbolin

Well-Known Member
So the 8 bucket spray to waste system is in place. The DE1000 is nestled between the two 420-Pontoon combos and is running at the 600 watt setting. At this setting it is drawing a bit over the 460 watts of the IG's but the canopy is seeing an even 500 umoles which lets us run CO2 with a Sentinel Controller at 700PPM at veg and provides us with 32 moles/day DLI. Once we flip we'll push the DE up to 1150 watts using a Gavita EL1 remote controller and the CO2 will go up to1500 PPM thru week 3 of flower. After that we'll lower the intensities/CO2 back to the 500 uMole setting. The exercise is to meet the gardens optimum crop production levels by matching the light intensities to available levels of CO2 that if not present simply waste electricity by inadequate levels of CO2.

http://www.inda-gro.com/IG/sites/default/files/pdf/plant-lighting-resource/8-Light Intensity as it Relates to Available CO2.pdf
 

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mauricem00

Well-Known Member
has anyone tried these http://www.ebay.com/itm/261722416795?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT looks like an inexpensive way for a DIYer to try induction lights also fo red supplemental lighting these new diodes from bridgelux look interesting http://www.ebay.com/itm/291234250536?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT they provide a much broader spectrum than 660nm diodes. I am currently testing a few as supplemental lighting to a standard 6500/3000k fluorescent mix during flowering.those inexpensive induction light caught my attention and was curios to know if anyone had tried them and what experience they had with them.
 

JoeyV

Well-Known Member
has anyone tried these http://www.ebay.com/itm/261722416795?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT looks like an inexpensive way for a DIYer to try induction lights also fo red supplemental lighting these new diodes from bridgelux look interesting http://www.ebay.com/itm/291234250536?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT they provide a much broader spectrum than 660nm diodes. I am currently testing a few as supplemental lighting to a standard 6500/3000k fluorescent mix during flowering.those inexpensive induction light caught my attention and was curios to know if anyone had tried them and what experience they had with them.

That induction light doesn't come with a ballast...add another hundred $$$, if you can find one. If you do find one, it's likely NOT FCC approved, and could become a beacon to your house. Plus, if you use the lamp without designing and testing a properly isolated Faraday Cage for it, you're just broadcasting your location to anyone with the know how to look for it.

I bought a 200 watt version with a ballast from a China sell off Ebay, fit it into a cheap stainless steel sink - modified to act as a light fixture - and had a relatively nice fixture for a DIY 'indagro'. Cost me in total, roughly $350.

But I could never get beyond the fear of the RFI, EMI, black helicopters, and 6x8 cells, to actually use it. Since I had no means of testing it, beyond seeing how much ground noise it was adding to the AC, I decided it wasn't worth the risk. I went with a proper T5 setup.

I think induction lamps are like Betamax...it was a good idea, but failed to catch on.

The future is LED.

As far as the LEDs you've linked, keep in mind that that's a lot of wiring to be doing, not to mention mounting them to some sort of heatsink. Plus, you should take the "Bridelux" branding with a HUGE grain of salt.

But as far as experimenting... they could be interesting if you have the time and the skill. You could wire 10 in series using a Constant Current supply capable of 700mA at 30-34vF. That will give you a 30 watt fixture at roughly 3000 lumens (running at full power). You could build 5 of these with 50 LEDs.

If you put them all on one fixture you'd have a 15000 lumen light fixture at 150w plus overhead losses of, perhaps, 30-50 watts, for a total power usage somewhere around 200 watts.

But you also have to be skeptical about them being "full spectrum". Between the red and the blue spectrum lies the virtually useless green spectrum, and if you check out RGB LED lamps at 10w, the green channel puts out considerably more total lumens, and uses more actual power than the red or the blue.
 

hyroot

Well-Known Member
betamax was far superior to vhs and tape sound was superior to cd sound. It was cheaper and more cost effective to make and sell vhs and cd.

china direct inductions are not even on the same level as Inda gro. Its like an mr2 vs a ferrari

right now. Inda gro and apache are the only options for large ops. They are the only lighting that are UL approved aside from hid. Amaretech has UL approved cob panels. They're in testing phase now.

cobs are the future imo.
 
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JoeyV

Well-Known Member
betamax was far superior to vhs and tape sound was superior to cd sound. It was cheaper and more cost effective to make and sell vhs and cd.

china direct inductions are not even on the same level as Inda gro. Its like an mr2 vs a ferrari

right now. Inda gro and apache are the only options for large ops. They are the only lighting that are UL approved aside from hid. Amaretech has UL approved cob panels. They're in testing phase now.

cobs are the future imo.

I agree completely. T

he only thing I don't like about LED grow lights is the purple light. I'd rather go with 3000k and 6500k color temp cobs.
 

hyroot

Well-Known Member
I agree completely. T

he only thing I don't like about LED grow lights is the purple light. I'd rather go with 3000k and 6500k color temp cobs.
the top led companies are using all whites or red and white leds. No more purple. White leds improved performance / results tremendously . To have that full spectrum the monos were lacking. The method 7's and Apollo glasses help you see clearly as if being outside under all types of lighting now. Plus protect your eyes.
 

mauricem00

Well-Known Member
That induction light doesn't come with a ballast...add another hundred $$$, if you can find one. If you do find one, it's likely NOT FCC approved, and could become a beacon to your house. Plus, if you use the lamp without designing and testing a properly isolated Faraday Cage for it, you're just broadcasting your location to anyone with the know how to look for it.

I bought a 200 watt version with a ballast from a China sell off Ebay, fit it into a cheap stainless steel sink - modified to act as a light fixture - and had a relatively nice fixture for a DIY 'indagro'. Cost me in total, roughly $350.

But I could never get beyond the fear of the RFI, EMI, black helicopters, and 6x8 cells, to actually use it. Since I had no means of testing it, beyond seeing how much ground noise it was adding to the AC, I decided it wasn't worth the risk. I went with a proper T5 setup.

I think induction lamps are like Betamax...it was a good idea, but failed to catch on.

The future is LED.

As far as the LEDs you've linked, keep in mind that that's a lot of wiring to be doing, not to mention mounting them to some sort of heatsink. Plus, you should take the "Bridelux" branding with a HUGE grain of salt.

But as far as experimenting... they could be interesting if you have the time and the skill. You could wire 10 in series using a Constant Current supply capable of 700mA at 30-34vF. That will give you a 30 watt fixture at roughly 3000 lumens (running at full power). You could build 5 of these with 50 LEDs.

If you put them all on one fixture you'd have a 15000 lumen light fixture at 150w plus overhead losses of, perhaps, 30-50 watts, for a total power usage somewhere around 200 watts.

But you also have to be skeptical about them being "full spectrum". Between the red and the blue spectrum lies the virtually useless green spectrum, and if you check out RGB LED lamps at 10w, the green channel puts out considerably more total lumens, and uses more actual power than the red or the blue.
THANK YOU I was not aware that they did not come with a ballast. my training is as an electrical engineer so wiring lights is not a problem for me. I have read many peer reviewed studies on plant physiology I have spoken to the factory rep about these diodes so know that they are bridgelux.I have built a few small led lights (50 watts) but have not been impressed.I am happy with florescent (55watt 2g11 cfls AKA PL-L 55) but enjoy playing with leds. plants do adapt to their environment and after many generations of breeding under HPS lights indoor strains may have adapted to this form of light. LED's or fusion sulfur plasma lights may be the future but today they are just not cost effective and good lights are expensive
 

JoeyV

Well-Known Member
So you know your way around 'lectrics n stuff? Cool. LEDs have given a sort of re-birth to my former training in electronics engineering technology. I've been a software engineer for the past decade, but spent nearly two decades elbows deep in RF lab work. Most of the stuff we do today is properly shielded and relatively low power, so I don't sweat the noise issue. However when I see large inductor coils and hundreds of watts of high frequency power, I figure better to look somewhere else for a source of light.
 

Cococola36

Well-Known Member
So the 8 bucket spray to waste system is in place. The DE1000 is nestled between the two 420-Pontoon combos and is running at the 600 watt setting. At this setting it is drawing a bit over the 460 watts of the IG's but the canopy is seeing an even 500 umoles which lets us run CO2 with a Sentinel Controller at 700PPM at veg and provides us with 32 moles/day DLI. Once we flip we'll push the DE up to 1150 watts using a Gavita EL1 remote controller and the CO2 will go up to1500 PPM thru week 3 of flower. After that we'll lower the intensities/CO2 back to the 500 uMole setting. The exercise is to meet the gardens optimum crop production levels by matching the light intensities to available levels of CO2 that if not present simply waste electricity by inadequate levels of CO2.

http://www.inda-gro.com/IG/sites/default/files/pdf/plant-lighting-resource/8-Light Intensity as it Relates to Available CO2.pdf
That is a very interesting lighting combo concept, i will be looking forward to more updates on that
 

PSUAGRO.

Well-Known Member
betamax was far superior to vhs and tape sound was superior to cd sound. It was cheaper and more cost effective to make and sell vhs and cd.

china direct inductions are not even on the same level as Inda gro. Its like an mr2 vs a ferrari

right now. Inda gro and apache are the only options for large ops. They are the only lighting that are UL approved aside from hid. Amaretech has UL approved cob panels. They're in testing phase now.

cobs are the future imo.
Amaretech isn't going to get the UL approval without a complete redesign of the cooling system........not cheap and doubt it will happen.

You can keep up with that garden with the live stream, detailed notes, time lapse and the journal over @ http://iagla.org/69-2/in-house/

Future developments to the video stream, possibly as early as next week, will be smart phone enabled and it will show real time temps and RH.

Offset fixture heights/spacing looks like a logistical nightmare in an environment with a constantly changing canopy............adding in these heat monsters(de 1000w) makes running c02 a mandatory option for most of the year.

Leds are a much better alternative for intra-canopy lighting IMO.. without all the wasted spill light and no reflector-to-reflector losses
 

hyroot

Well-Known Member
Amaretech isn't going to get the UL approval without a complete redesign of the cooling system........not cheap and doubt it will happen.




Offset fixture heights/spacing looks like a logistical nightmare in an environment with a constantly changing canopy............adding in these heat monsters(de 1000w) makes running c02 a mandatory option for most of the year.

Leds are a much better alternative for intra-canopy lighting IMO.. without all the wasted spill light and no reflector-to-reflector losses
they got it on the cob panel. I think its the heat sinks they used. There's one. Little heat sink for each cob. So air isn't flowing across a large heat sink. I think that's part of the reason they used in cxa 2025's. They had heat issues with the larger cobs. It has to do with direction of airflow. Like how apache got their ul approved
 

Greengenes707

Well-Known Member
they got it on the cob panel. I think its the heat sinks they used. There's one. Little heat sink for each cob. So air isn't flowing across a large heat sink. I think that's part of the reason they used in cxa 2025's. They had heat issues with the larger cobs. It has to do with direction of airflow. Like how apache got their ul approved
It's not the heatsinks. From everything I can tell Amare is not UL listed. All they do is reference UL guidelines. I just emailed them to clarify it. I will let you know.
UL have some voltage and current restrictions from what I know of it. High voltage is a no-no. Yet all the HLG HV versions are UL.
The airflow/fan problems aren't from UL too much...more for IP certification...and where most all actively cooled panels will fall short. Angles from which water can enter are the problem...and fans on the direct top...like a51, amare, cidly, even great DIY, all have.
 

hyroot

Well-Known Member
It's not the heatsinks. From everything I can tell Amare is not UL listed. All they do is reference UL guidelines. I just emailed them to clarify it. I will let you know.
UL have some voltage and current restrictions from what I know of it. High voltage is a no-no. Yet all the HLG HV versions are UL.
The airflow/fan problems aren't from UL too much...more for IP certification...and where most all actively cooled panels will fall short. Angles from which water can enter are the problem...and fans on the direct top...like a51, amare, cidly, even great DIY, all have.
I could of sworn Amare is UL but its CE and ROHS

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