Is secession a good thing?

Rob Roy said:

You're half right half wit. If you agree to something and the other party agrees there exists the basis for a valid agreement.

What about when you agree, but another person doesn't want to be a part of your proposed agreement? What happens then?

Click to expand...

When I agree and other idiots do not, then we have idiots running red lights, blasting past stop signs, driving on the left side of the road. In short you have chaos. Now get with the fucking program or you can simple renounce your citizenship and move to Somalia. I think they have the chaos you so desire.

Rob Roy said:

Which part of your constitution is the part where the individual people contained within "the people" have individually and personally consented to that form of government? If you as an individual don't consent to something and a group of people force you into that something and won't let you leave have you been kidnapped?


I bet you a million Zimbabwe dollars you can't find that part in your constitution and if you do Uncle Buck will leave this site forever.

Click to expand...

Ummm no one is keeping you here....WAIT are you institutionalize ?

londonfog said:

When I agree and other idiots do not, then we have idiots running red lights, blasting past stop signs, driving on the left side of the road. In short you have chaos. Now get with the fucking program or you can simple renounce your citizenship and move to Somalia. I think they have the chaos you so desire.

Click to expand...

Removing a central authority does not mean a person is advocating removing rules or good behavior when driving. You have failed to consider the other possibilities that are NOT allowed in the present monopoly.

Also, when you agree to pay for a school, how does that mean other people have also agreed to pay for that too?

londonfog said:

Ummm no one is keeping you here....WAIT are you institutionalize ?

Click to expand...

I put a couple of quarters in the dryer and don't want to leave until the skivvies are dry. What time do you close again and why do you have blonde wig on ?

Rob Roy said:

Removing a central authority does not mean a person is advocating removing rules or good behavior when driving. You have failed to consider the other possibilities that are NOT allowed in the present monopoly.

Also, when you agree to pay for a school, how does that mean other people have also agreed to pay for that too?

Click to expand...

It's people like you who use the system of public schooling then bitch about paying for the system of public schooling. You agreed to pay property tax when you purchased your home.

Rob Roy said:

I put a couple of quarters in the dryer and don't want to leave until the skivvies are dry. What time do you close again and why do you have blonde wig on ?

Click to expand...

I think you're confusing me with your dad. Don't play the jokes if you can't handle all the jokes that may come your way. Last warning.

londonfog said:

It's people like you who use the system of public schooling then bitch about paying for the system of public schooling. You agreed to pay property tax when you purchased your home.

Click to expand...

I'm thinking rather than muting you, that you might be a mute, blind too. Figuratively speaking anyway.


No, people do not "agree" to something that has an element of force within it to ensure compliance. They pay BECAUSE of the threat, not the desire for the payment and the dubious "service".

If I threaten to kick you in the balls for shitting on my laundry and you cough up some quarters from the secret stash you hide in your house, that doesn't imply you agree with me, it could and likely implies you want to avoid the kick in the balls.

If there's a tax on food, people pay it not because they like the tax, they pay it because they like food and want to avoid the threat.
If people like housing...etc.

londonfog said:

I think you're confusing me with your dad. Don't play the jokes if you can't handle all the jokes that may come your way. Last warning.

Click to expand...

Okay. We can drop the bullshit if you like. Does that mean you will give coherent answers to my questions ?

Rob Roy said:

Okay. We can drop the bullshit if you like. Does that mean you will give coherent answers to my questions ?

Click to expand...

Oh we don't have to drop the BS, just make sure when you crack your jokes, it is open season.
The bottom line is you live in a society in which we have rules to make it work. I admit some of our rules are fucked up, some are needed. You need to understand this and fight against the things that are truly fucked up. Learn to separate what is needed and what is not. It would help us all. You seem to want to fight against everything. Learn to pick your battles or you will lose them all.

londonfog said:

Oh we don't have to drop the BS, just make sure when you crack your jokes, it is open season.
The bottom line is you live in a society in which we have rules to make it work. I admit some of our rules are fucked up, some are needed. You need to understand this and fight against the things that are truly fucked up. Learn to separate what is needed and what is not. It would help us all. You seem to want to fight against everything. Learn to pick your battles or you will lose them all.

Click to expand...

I think you misunderstand my position. You can't have a monopolistic system that is based in coercion and ever achieve a peaceful society.

If you can, please explain how that would occur.

Rob Roy said:

I think you misunderstand my position. You can't have a monopolistic system that is based in coercion and ever achieve a peaceful society.

If you can, please explain how that would occur.

Click to expand...

you can't ever have a peaceful society without rules
If you can, please explain how that would occur.

londonfog said:

you can't ever have a peaceful society without rules
If you can, please explain how that would occur.

Click to expand...

Sure and thank you for asking. I think you might be implying I favor "no rules" which would be an incorrect assumption on your part.
I favor voluntary and peaceful interactions.

If the primary rule is that people and systems cannot initiate aggression against others isn't that a good place to start?

If you agree, then embracing a system based in coercion (initiating aggression) would not lead to peace would it?

You can polish a turd in hopes for making attractive jewelry, but your necklace will still smell if you start with a turd.

londonfog said:

you can't ever have a peaceful society without rules
If you can, please explain how that would occur.

Click to expand...

Also, you might be confusing an ordered society with a peaceful society.

Rob Roy said:

Also, you might be confusing an ordered society with a peaceful society.

Click to expand...

please explain a peaceful society and how does one become

robroy is institutionalized.

UncleBuck said:

robroy is institutionalized.

Click to expand...

I'm starting to think that maybe he is. He speaks like someone is keeping him on lock down. He only comes on at certain times. @Rob Roy are you in a place that is painted all white and have meds given to you at certain times of the day, by people with white coats on ? I'm serious

londonfog said:

please explain a peaceful society and how does one become

Click to expand...

Sure. Good question. A peaceful society is one which the initiation of force against another individual in a non-defensive way is not tolerated, even if you call yourself government.

Human relations are based in the idea that the individual has every right to determine his / her own path, but not the path of others. You are free to associate with anyone that wants to associate with you, you are not free to murder and call it collateral damage, steal and call it taxes or assault people over a plant because you have a badge, etc.

Economic freedom is a component of a peaceful society. No monopoly on what "money" is or can be will be held by a coercive authority.

In fact the only governments you could have in a peaceful society would all be voluntary. Logic insists that is so. IF you are involuntarily encompassed in anything, a government or a wendys bathroom, somebody has broken the peace...hence if the base of an involuntary government is force, by definition it cannot at the same time be peaceful.

To contrast, an orderly society is one that has some outward aspects of peace, but it is not spontaneous if it is held in place thru fear or threats. Saadam Hussein was boss of a fairly orderly society, but it wasn't peaceful as the gun was always in the room.

In fact what all coercive governments sell to their serfs as "peace" is in actuality order. The color of the flag is irrelevant, they all do it.

londonfog said:

I'm starting to think that maybe he is. He speaks like someone is keeping him on lock down. He only comes on at certain times. @Rob Roy are you in a place that is painted all white and have meds given to you at certain times of the day, by people with white coats on ? I'm serious

Click to expand...

Nope, not painted white here.

Rob Roy said:

Nope, not painted white here.

Click to expand...

Got a laugh from me.

You really live that off the grid? Damn, more dedicated then I am. How often do you get food deliveries? Or do you just go and load up a pallet or two from time to time? Or are you a permaculture person? Or transitioning into a permaculture?

AlecTheGardener said:

Got a laugh from me.

You really live that off the grid? Damn, more dedicated then I am. How often do you get food deliveries? Or do you just go and load up a pallet or two from time to time? Or are you a permaculture person? Or transitioning into a permaculture?

Click to expand...

The rough road to my house snowed in recently. Had to stay home and watch the birds at the feeders, eat fresh eggs with some wake and bake cake and stoke the fire. It was heaven.

Friends have a large greenhouse, I lend a little help and organic grow tip here and there, others raise livestock...plenty to eat for all. Plus I have a large garden, raised beds, berries, et al on my homestead. I've done some hugelkultur (sic?) successfully, but I wouldn't say I'm an expert by any means. I'm always open to learning more. Plus there's a Wendy's about 20 miles away in town.