Is the Keystone cancelation a good thing?

Sir Napsalot said:

I have a woodstove for emergencies

The city has taken down several big trees in my neighborhood over the past few years- they cut 'em into ~16" chunks and leave them on the curb for whoever wants them, which is generally me

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Best use for logs (IMO)

myke said:

I would be curious what the cost difference per month would be?
Ive changed everything to gas over the last 10 years,now if I could only run my lights with NG.

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Here it’s about 2-3x depending on time of use to use electricity and many plants use NG. The trick (not that tricky lol) is to use electricity that is generated by carbon neutral sources. My heat pump (air source) will heat my house with no back up down to -7C, when I install the new system I have, that will be lowered to -15C. Geothermal is even more efficient and can also produce electricity. There are many ways to achieve a carbon neutral footprint but given the price (highly subsidized) of fossil fuels there is very little motivation to switch. FYI, when I started in the trade (40 years ago) I was involved in one of the first all NG house builds in Ontario including lights. They brought in a film crew to document the build. If I remember correctly there were about 15 leaks when tested, they didn’t film that lol.

hanimmal said:

Best use for logs (IMO)

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I used leaf and tree mulch in half my container grows this year and the plants were terrible, never ever will I do that again lol. Not sure but 90% were males in those containers while the soil grows were all female and all from the same strain of bag seed .

Budley Doright said:

I used leaf and tree mulch in half my container grows this year and the plants were terrible, never ever will I do that again lol. Not sure but 90% were males in those containers while the soil grows were all female and all from the same strain of bag seed .

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Yeah I think it is more of a outdoor permaculture gardening kind of thing. I don't know if it would change the sex of the plant, but could see it messing with the plant in a container is the leaves were breaking down or buggy.

I really like the burying the carbon though for the environmental reasons.

hanimmal said:

Yeah I think it is more of a outdoor permaculture gardening kind of thing. I don't know if it would change the sex of the plant, but could see it messing with the plant in a container is the leaves were breaking down or buggy.

I really like the burying the carbon though for the environmental reasons.

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The female/male thing is all ancedotal but it seems more than a coincidence. My 10 year old containers (all outdoor) that I top up every year with compost from my piles grow great plants and are basically a contained eco system with worms, etc. But yup never again. I’ll be emptying all of them in the spring and starting over . I gotta stop changing shit that works and no more bag seed lol.

Budley Doright said:

The female/male thing is all ancedotal but it seems more than a coincidence. My 10 year old containers (all outdoor) that I top up every year with compost from my piles grow great plants and are basically a contained eco system with worms, etc. But yup never again. I’ll be emptying all of them in the spring and starting over . I gotta stop changing shit that works and no more bag seed lol.

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I could imagine the breaking down of that material would impact the PH and nitrogen (being used to break down the leaves), but not sure how that would impact the sexing of the plant.

But lol yeah, if you have a good system, it is not worth switching it up generally.

Ive been meaning to try out some outdoor Canadian genetics.

Fogdog said:

That, I would say, is up to Canada. How it is transported makes little difference to me other than I don't want that pipeline on US soil.

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How is it up to Canada? Is it also not up to the buyer. Could you imagine the fallout from your goverment if Canada unilaterally stopped the flow of oil to the US? Not that Canada would. Seems both countries don’t give a flying fuck as to the impact the tar sands and other extraction methods are having on our countries and the world . I agree with you re the pipeline, I wouldn’t want it either, I’m thinking that just means it’ll get there another way, as I watch another rolling bomb go by. That’s kind of the point of the thread, is it just being done for optics, is it actually going to accomplish anything meaningful?

hanimmal said:

I could imagine the breaking down of that material would impact the PH and nitrogen (being used to break down the leaves), but not sure how that would impact the sexing of the plant.

But lol yeah, if you have a good system, it is not worth switching it up generally.

Ive been meaning to try out some outdoor Canadian genetics.

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I lost a great blueberry strain that I grew for years that I brought back from BC and have not found anything comparable, so sad .

Budley Doright said:

How is it up to Canada? Is it also not up to the buyer. Could you imagine the fallout from your goverment if Canada unilaterally stopped the flow of oil to the US? Not that Canada would. Seems both countries don’t give a flying fuck as to the impact the tar sands and other extraction methods are having on our countries and the world . I agree with you re the pipeline, I wouldn’t want it either, I’m thinking that just means it’ll get there another way, as I watch another rolling bomb go by. That’s kind of the point of the thread, is it just being done for optics, is it actually going to accomplish anything meaningful?

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Deb Haaland says fuck that oil pipeline (jk, I don't actually know/looked into anything she has said about the pipeline (shit so it might actually be kind of racist of me to even make this joke... Which leads me to think that since I am already saying that 'I am joking' I likely am being a dick. And so, I apologize for being a dick, as I click post reply.)).

Budley Doright said:

I lost a great blueberry strain that I grew for years that I brought back from BC and have not found anything comparable, so sad .

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That sucks man I am sorry. No wonder my bringing up Huglekultur brought up some ptsd.

Budley Doright said:

How is it up to Canada? Is it also not up to the buyer. Could you imagine the fallout from your goverment if Canada unilaterally stopped the flow of oil to the US? Not that Canada would. Seems both countries don’t give a flying fuck as to the impact the tar sands and other extraction methods are having on our countries and the world . I agree with you re the pipeline, I wouldn’t want it either, I’m thinking that just means it’ll get there another way, as I watch another rolling bomb go by. That’s kind of the point of the thread, is it just being done for optics, is it actually going to accomplish anything meaningful?

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The government of Canada has little to say on how the companies moved the oil. What is the fixation of the government telling private companies what to do. All the American politicians doing scare tactics during the elections saying Democrats will turn America into socialists like Canada is nutty.

I don't know what the figures are now but the Oilsands were up to 70% owned by American companies up to 2018. As far as stopping the flow of oil, NAFTA was negotiated saying any level of reduction to the US by Canada, Canada's share of the output would be reduced by the same amount. So no Trump, " the hell with the rest of the world." thinking, the two countries would be tied together energy wise when it came to oil.

And yeah, it is done for optics, it is precisely the reason. To show that they do not want to do things the old way and that we are moving to a greener new world. That is the big fight all along, it is the poster child of the green movement. They see losing it as losing the fight to go green. And yet the transportation by rail puts up more carbon into the atmosphere. And that is my big concern. It takes more than twice as much energy to move the oil by rail as it does by pipeline. And to up the ante, the company said it will put in green power generation along the line to power it. But now we will have half a million barrels a day moved by rail every day with the train engines blowing CO2 up in the air.

I do think it is sometimes forgot/ignored that the oil will move how ever it can unfortunately This was an train that originated from the US and stopped abruptly in Quebec. It wiped out a town and destroyed a river.

Budley Doright said:

How is it up to Canada? Is it also not up to the buyer. Could you imagine the fallout from your goverment if Canada unilaterally stopped the flow of oil to the US? Not that Canada would. Seems both countries don’t give a flying fuck as to the impact the tar sands and other extraction methods are having on our countries and the world . I agree with you re the pipeline, I wouldn’t want it either, I’m thinking that just means it’ll get there another way, as I watch another rolling bomb go by. That’s kind of the point of the thread, is it just being done for optics, is it actually going to accomplish anything meaningful?

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The thing is that the United States does not need Canadian oil. We are basically energy independent. That oil being exported to foreign markets has no business being transported across the United States of America.

clean beautiful coal

Fogdog said:

Agree that there are worse forms of energy than natural gas. Is this then the debate? Build Keystone pipeline or go back to flint knives, stone axes and cooking over a fire?

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I was responding to a comment.

xtsho said:

The thing is that the United States does not need Canadian oil. We are basically energy independent. That oil being exported to foreign markets has no business being transported across the United States of America.

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exactly. let CA build a refinery (if they don't already have one on their left coast) and pipe that crap across their pristine landscape. and then sell it to china.

Sir Napsalot said:

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The Scandinavian countries have done some really good work on wood pellet stoves. They have forced air burn chambers to increase efficiency. There is a pellet mill in the Florida Panhandle, and if Port Panama City had not been closed after Micheal, that is were I could have sold my broken pine trees, as they use scrap wood to make the pellets.

glorious nuclear energy master race

rkymtnman said:

exactly. let CA build a refinery (if they don't already have one on their left coast) and pipe that crap across their pristine landscape. and then sell it to china.

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What's really messed up about this is that trump went on for years about how bad China was and that they are an enemy. So what does he do? He fast tracks approval for a pipeline that will help supply China with cheap oil. And the thing is that China doesn't need the oil. They've been stockpiling this cheap oil for years. So we're basically selling them a commodity for dirt cheap that could have been used as bargaining leverage in the future. It's ridiculous.

Those screaming the loudest about China Bad! Are the biggest proponents of giving them access to cheap oil.

Budley Doright said:

Just curious how everyone feels about the pipeline being canceled. Is it going to lower emissions or is it just optics? I think it will mostly be optics in regards to the global warming reductions but still optics can be good thing.

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It’ll put money in our enemies pockets and many people will lose their jobs. It’s basically an America last movement. All part of an attempt to force us into “green” technology, although making the batteries for hybrids and electrics has a way worse impact and uses more fossil fuel than a gas vehicle could ever use...all before it even gets driven.

Budley Doright said:

I’ve cut wood since I was a young kid as we heated 10 cottages and our houses with wood. I hate wood lol. Actually I like the heat but don’t like the work and dust. Pellets and heat pump now and seriously thinking propane for backup soon. Getting old .

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For years I cut grass in the summer and wood in the winter to earn extra money. But at 60, if I pick up a chainsaw, it's to save money, not to make it. (although I do leave open the possibility of going back to yard work in my old age)