Is this casued by PH problems (leaves are dry and brown)

With DWC you’re in effect soaking your roots in water and nute solution for 24 hours a day.

usually you want to track your EC.


what is your EC reading after 24 hours when your pH drifts?

higher or lower than the EC it started at?

higher? Reduce EC

lower? Increase EC.


You want to find the happy medium where EC remains almost constant with only a slight +-0.2EC Drift.

This will let you know when you’re feeding correctly.

jondamon said:

With DWC you’re in effect soaking your roots in water and nute solution for 24 hours a day.

usually you want to track your EC.


what is your EC reading after 24 hours when your pH drifts?

higher or lower than the EC it started at?

higher? Reduce EC

lower? Increase EC.


You want to find the happy medium where EC remains almost constant with only a slight +-0.2EC Drift.

This will let you know when you’re feeding correctly.

Click to expand...

Hey mate, thanks for your input.

I have been tracking EC and even during all the problems it hasn't really shifted more than 0.1 in a week. If I remember correctly the problems began around the end of week 2 when EC was only at about 1.2.

In my previous grows I have tried to keep the EC down a little compared to what the nutrient companies tell us (hey they just want us to use more nutrients right?) but when I saw what high EC did to my mates grow (1.5 pounds from 1 plant using the same nutes) I wanted to give the recommended EC a shot...

I'm using House and Garden nutrients (https://www.house-garden.com.au/starter-kit) which are not certified organic but do contain organic materials. I'm also using GreatWhite bennies and now MammothP bennies. I'll add some Flairform CMX (Cal Mag) when it arrives too.

The problem has been really strange but I think it was initially caused by a combination of root rot, lack of oxygen in the solution and removing the water dripper prematurely resulting in the plant getting next to no nutrition for a couple weeks. Things are looking better now though after getting a bigger air pump adding bennies and using the heisenberg tea, the plant seems to be growing at an expected pace with less damaged leaves, although the leaves do seem to still be damaged...

Update:

This will be my last week of veg I think.

I changed the water today and set EC to 2.0 with CMX (Cal mag) etc. It still looks like some of the leaves still have the same problem but there is a lot of new growth and it has been growing quickly. There is also a lot of new white root mass although the top of the roots is still covered with brown sludge. Ive noticed a while ago that the same brown sludge (I think) builds up in the res (see photos) so im not sure if it's rot.

Pics:

plebschmo said:

Update:

This will be my last week of veg I think.

I changed the water today and set EC to 2.0 with CMX (Cal mag) etc. It still looks like some of the leaves still have the same problem but there is a lot of new growth and it has been growing quickly. There is also a lot of new white root mass although the top of the roots is still covered with brown sludge. Ive noticed a while ago that the same brown sludge (I think) builds up in the res (see photos) so im not sure if it's rot.

Pics:

http://imgur.com/a/lAX4huz

Click to expand...

Yes mate, those new roots look pearly white, the tea seems to working well!

I wouldn't flip yet but it's up to you of course, personally I would wait a couple more weeks as by that point you should have a healthy plant.

Have you tried hosing off the brown sludge with a handheld shower attachment or anything, maybe most of it will come off?

MrGreenFingers99 said:

Yes mate, those new roots look pearly white, the tea seems to working well!

I wouldn't flip yet but it's up to you of course, personally I would wait a couple more weeks as by that point you should have a healthy plant.

Click to expand...

Cheers mate,

What do you think I should be looking for before I swap? No more leaf damage? I removed all the dead leaves last week after your advice and the leaves in those pics were mostly green last week...

MrGreenFingers99 said:

Have you tried hosing off the brown sludge with a handheld shower attachment or anything, maybe most of it will come off?

Click to expand...

I've been looking at a way to do that but I cant exactly get running water to where my tent is and I can't really find anything high preasure enough to do the job which is portable. The brown sludge seems to mostly be on the top roots and inside the clump of roots, not on the surface... I've tried a spray bottle but it doesnt help much. I was thinking of maybe using a super soaker lol. I've removed a bit with my fingers and it just smells and looks like if soil and water are mixed, it doesnt smell rotten or anything.

plebschmo said:

Cheers mate,

What do you think I should be looking for before I swap? No more leaf damage? I removed all the dead leaves last week after your advice and the leaves in those pics were mostly green last week...



I've been looking at a way to do that but I cant exactly get running water to where my tent is and I can't really find anything high preasure enough to do the job which is portable. The brown sludge seems to mostly be on the top roots and inside the clump of roots, not on the surface... I've tried a spray bottle but it doesnt help much. I was thinking of maybe using a super soaker lol. I've removed a bit with my fingers and it just smells and looks like if soil and water are mixed, it doesnt smell rotten or anything.

Click to expand...

Oh so those brown leaves now were green before, assumed they were the same ones although I think your roots are looking much better now then last week as you can now see the fuzzy little white hairs coming off the new ones and the bottom ones look pure white, whiter then mine are now!

Hows your PH and EC? staying stable now as you are maybe overfeeding, I'm 24 days after flip to 12/12 and I'm at 1.8 EC with my water being 0.4 EC so 1.4 EC of nutes.

Can you just disconnect your lines and carry the whole bucket to the bathroom maybe, or run a garden hose to where you can get the bucket to?

You got root rot brother. And it is most likely caused by ph fluctuation. Ph is vital and if not kept in check can cause numorous problems. Especially with hydroponics. I prefer soil myself. Stay between 6.0 and 6.5. another thing. You need to put the bubbler back in. It's the only thing providing your roots with oxygen... With out it they are sufficating

MrGreenFingers99 said:

Oh so those brown leaves now were green before, assumed they were the same ones although I think your roots are looking much better now then last week as you can now see the fuzzy little white hairs coming off the new ones and the bottom ones look pure white, whiter then mine are now!

Hows your PH and EC? staying stable now as you are maybe overfeeding, I'm 24 days after flip to 12/12 and I'm at 1.8 EC with my water being 0.4 EC so 1.4 EC of nutes.

Can you just disconnect your lines and carry the whole bucket to the bathroom maybe, or run a garden hose to where you can get the bucket to?

Click to expand...

Yeh those brown leaves are leaves with only a couple of brown spots a week ago - a little worse than what can be seen in pic 3 above. I removed all the obviously brown and useless leaves and left a couple which still looked mostly green last week.

PH and EC are getting more and more stable. My tap water is 0.1 EC then I set the EC with A + B nutes to about 1.6, then the CMX (Cal Mag) raises it to about 2.0, I add the additives and bennies then added more water to bring it back down to 2.0... PH rises rapidly at the start of the week but by mid week i maybe have to adjust it 0.3 per day if that. EC doesn't seem to drive much at all.

I suppose I could just take the plant to the sick and clean it out there but it would be a lot of work to get a hose to my tent or to disconnect the lines (they're these ice-line brand lines which are an absolute bitch to get onto the barbs - have to soak them in boiling water and wait for them to expand).

plebschmo said:

Yeh those brown leaves are leaves with only a couple of brown spots a week ago - a little worse than what can be seen in pic 3 above. I removed all the obviously brown and useless leaves and left a couple which still looked mostly green last week.

PH and EC are getting more and more stable. My tap water is 0.1 EC then I set the EC with A + B nutes to about 1.6, then the CMX (Cal Mag) raises it to about 2.0, I add the additives and bennies then added more water to bring it back down to 2.0... PH rises rapidly at the start of the week but by mid week i maybe have to adjust it 0.3 per day if that. EC doesn't seem to drive much at all.

I suppose I could just take the plant to the sick and clean it out there but it would be a lot of work to get a hose to my tent or to disconnect the lines (they're these ice-line brand lines which are an absolute bitch to get onto the barbs - have to soak them in boiling water and wait for them to expand).

Click to expand...

Iceline? Really, they look clear or maybe there a different iceline brand in Aus as mine are double walled, white on outside and black on the inside?


My PH rises by 0.6 initially on a new res change but that's just where it's being oxygenated from the airstones, then it will stabilise and stay pretty steady as long as feeding is correct, I never got above 1.6 in veg including the tap water so 1.2 of nutes, how many ml/l of the base nutes are you using?

I've got the same Iceline as that lol its connects each side of my res to a water chiller.

Is the general consensus that its better to use lower amounts of nutes? I thought that way and did so originally in my first couple of grows. I even critisised my mate when he was running an EC of around 2.4 and upwards. But his plant grew huge with these nutes being run at a high EC so I dont really know what to think. Maybe I should be aiming for a lower EC.

Im using about 60mL of each of the Aquaflakes A and B, then about half of the amounts suggested for additives, normal suggested amounts of Greatwhite and Mammoth P and half for the Cal Mag.

plebschmo said:

I've got the same Iceline as that lol its connects each side of my res to a water chiller.

Is the general consensus that its better to use lower amounts of nutes? I thought that way and did so originally in my first couple of grows. I even critisised my mate when he was running an EC of around 2.4 and upwards. But his plant grew huge with these nutes being run at a high EC so I dont really know what to think. Maybe I should be aiming for a lower EC.

Im using about 60mL of each of the Aquaflakes A and B, then about half of the amounts suggested for additives, normal suggested amounts of Greatwhite and Mammoth P and half for the Cal Mag.

Click to expand...

It is dependant on strain tbh and it's hard to tell with your leaves whether there is to much, I prefer to er on the lower side as I find it's easier to green up a slightly underfed plant then to try to get rid of a Nitrogen toxicity.

I just find that if you find the sweet spot then PH stays stable, if under or over feeding PH fluctuates a fair bit.

plebschmo said:

Cheers mate,

EC is at 1.6 and its 3rd week of veg, do you think thats OK?

I noticed today the tips of some of the new growth are getting the same problem

Click to expand...

In my experience that’s far too high.

Well that all makes sense.

What is a good level of EC to use through Veg and Flower? I was following the EC recommended by House and Garden.

plebschmo said:

Well that all makes sense.

What is a good level of EC to use through Veg and Flower? I was following the EC recommended by House and Garden.

Click to expand...

Maybe try 1.2 EC of nutes plus whatever your water is, need to try to get it moving up or down so you know if you need to go higher or lower.

Thanks mate.

Just set ph to 5.7 and EC to 1.9 (dont want to go lower because of water level, will try lower EC next water change)

I took some close up pictures of the leaves that I pulled off the plant too.

So im not sure if the problem is getting better... The leaves still seem to be doing the same thing - they look healthy when they're new growth, slowly develop a few brown spots as they grow then eventually end up dry, brittle and brown. The rest of the plant looks healthy though, the stem is getting thick and it has grown a decent bit recently... The roots still have some of that brown sludge on them but have also grown and look healthy. I've also noticed that some of the first roots which had this brown sludge on them are now quite thick... Im really not sure whats causing the problem, and I'm starting to think that maybe I've been feeding the plants too much nutrients.

Pics:
I was thinking of flushing it for 3 days with plain water then putting in nutes at around 1.2 EC. Leaving this for a week and seeing if there is any recovery before flipping it to flower. What do you think of this plan?

plebschmo said:

So im not sure if the problem is getting better... The leaves still seem to be doing the same thing - they look healthy when they're new growth, slowly develop a few brown spots as they grow then eventually end up dry, brittle and brown. The rest of the plant looks healthy though, the stem is getting thick and it has grown a decent bit recently... The roots still have some of that brown sludge on them but have also grown and look healthy. I've also noticed that some of the first roots which had this brown sludge on them are now quite thick... Im really not sure whats causing the problem, and I'm starting to think that maybe I've been feeding the plants too much nutrients.

Pics:

http://imgur.com/a/KibFTMg

I was thinking of flushing it for 3 days with plain water then putting in nutes at around 1.2 EC. Leaving this for a week and seeing if there is any recovery before flipping it to flower. What do you think of this plan?

Click to expand...

Sounds like a good idea, you cant wait forever to flip.

I feel bad because I've been giving advice and was sure they were on the right track as the roots dont look bad now at all apart from the sludge.

You are using calmag right?

Seedling early veg 0.6-0.8

Mid veg 0.8-1.0

late veg 1.0-1.2

stretch 1.2-1.4

mid flower 1.2

late flower reducing from 1.2-0.8

finish.

this is roughly what’s served me well for various grows for years.

by monitoring your EC of your res every 24hours you’re looking for a slight fall in EC to make sure they’re not over feeding.

your plants look over fed.

1.9EC is massively high for that size plant running hydro.

MrGreenFingers99 said:

Sounds like a good idea, you cant wait forever to flip.

I feel bad because I've been giving advice and was sure they were on the right track as the roots dont look bad now at all apart from the sludge.

You are using calmag right?

Click to expand...

No stress mate, its been a learning experience for everyone involved lol. I'm very appreciative of your help and input even if it didn't fully fix the problem!

Thanks Jondamon for those EC figures! I'll use them after I've finished my 3 day flush.

So I've just changed the water with plain PHed water. EC reads 0.3 after letting it mix with what was left in my water chiller and lines. I'll leave this for 3 days then adjust EC to about 1.0 - 1.2, leave that for a week then swap for flower. I've also removed most of the fucked leaves. Hopefully this all helps lol

I'm also contemplating just ditching the brown additives (roots accelerator and amino treatment) as there is always a decent buildup of brown sludge which looks like dirt and water mixed in the res. I'm pretty sure its from those additives as when you open the bottles the liquids are very thick and black. Perhaps house and garden additives aren't the best for DWC.