Is Time An Illusion?

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
Theoretically even being in a plane makes you age slower. "The faster you go, the slower you age."
But I personally don't think that would be true.
They've confirmed the effect with an atomic clock on a jetliner.
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/relativ/airtim.html

If the idea of westward flight gaining time doesn't make sense, consider that the earth is rotating. A westward flight is a despinning act ... the plane is slower than the surface under it. cn
 

Finshaggy

Well-Known Member
Time is not given, and time is not taken. It just sits through itself.

They build buildings so tall these days.
 

mindphuk

Well-Known Member
I didn't know that they had tried it.
Yet I pointed out the atomic clock experiments as evidence weeks ago. Even raising one clock slightly higher than another makes them go at different rates based on how close they are to the gravity well of Earth.
 

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
Yet I pointed out the atomic clock experiments as evidence weeks ago. Even raising one clock slightly higher than another makes them go at different rates based on how close they are to the gravity well of Earth.
What causes the larger effect - (the difference in) gravity or angular velocity? cn
 

mindphuk

Well-Known Member
What causes the larger effect - (the difference in) gravity or angular velocity? cn
I would have to calculate both the dilation d/t velocity - easy (radius = 6378km, radius'= 6378.01km for a 10 meter height difference), as well as the dilation d/t gravity using Einstein Field Equations - way over my head.
An easier method would be to perform the experiment near one of the poles negating the motion of the earth.


Abstract
Observers in relative motion or at different gravitational potentials measure disparate clock rates. These predictions of relativity have previously been observed with atomic clocks at high velocities and with large changes in elevation. We observed time dilation from relative speeds of less than 10 meters per second by comparing two optical atomic clocks connected by a 75-meter length of optical fiber. We can now also detect time dilation due to a change in height near Earth’s surface of less than 1 meter. This technique may be extended to the field of geodesy, with applications in geophysics and hydrology as well as in space-based tests of fundamental physics.
 

Finshaggy

Well-Known Member
Yet I pointed out the atomic clock experiments as evidence weeks ago. Even raising one clock slightly higher than another makes them go at different rates based on how close they are to the gravity well of Earth.
No you didn't. You just said that atomic clocks measured that.
I knew that. I had no idea they tested it with light speed, or high speed. You NEVER said that.
That is what I was acknowledging. Not what you're now stating.
 

Finshaggy

Well-Known Member


Time is not given, and time is not taken. It just sits through itself.

They build buildings so tall these days.​


 

mindphuk

Well-Known Member
No you didn't. You just said that atomic clocks measured that.
I knew that. I had no idea they tested it with light speed, or high speed. You NEVER said that.
That is what I was acknowledging. Not what you're now stating.
They didn't test them with high speed but with normal, everyday air travel speeds. Speeds that are a fraction of a percent of c. The difference is still measurable. That's the whole point is that we don't have to travel to close to light speed or travel to a black hole to see and measure the effect of time dilation, an effect that you were claiming was imaginary or something.
 

mindphuk

Well-Known Member
No you didn't. You just said that atomic clocks measured that.
I knew that. I had no idea they tested it with light speed, or high speed. You NEVER said that.
That is what I was acknowledging. Not what you're now stating.
I mentioned atomic clocks and time dilation three times in the Mayan thread. Both Mexiblunt and Ginjawarrior posted specifics about the Hafele and Keating Experiment and the effects of time dilation on our own GPS satellites. Here are the posts since you obviously missed them. Link Link

I will also refer you back to the abstract I quoted above in post #306. This was the specific experiment that I referred to. I'll make it easier for you:

Abstract
Observers in relative motion or at different gravitational potentials measure disparate clock rates. These predictions of relativity have previously been observed with atomic clocks at high velocities and with large changes in elevation. We observed time dilation from relative speeds of less than 10 meters per second by comparing two optical atomic clocks connected by a 75-meter length of optical fiber. We can now also detect time dilation due to a change in height near Earth’s surface of less than 1 meter. This technique may be extended to the field of geodesy, with applications in geophysics and hydrology as well as in space-based tests of fundamental physics.
 

Finshaggy

Well-Known Member
And @Mindphuk.
Remember how you said gravity wasn't "Proven" and that it's been "tested" and things will fall at different speeds in a vacuum?

[video]http://redux.com/stream/item/2127881/Feather-Hammer-Drop-on-Moon[/video]
 

mindphuk

Well-Known Member
And @Mindphuk.
Remember how you said gravity wasn't "Proven" and that it's been "tested" and things will fall at different speeds in a vacuum?

[video]http://redux.com/stream/item/2127881/Feather-Hammer-Drop-on-Moon[/video]
No I didn't. Must be more of your lack of comprehension of something else that I said because I know things fall at the same rate in the same gravitational field. I do know that no theory, gravity or otherwise, has ever been proven and never will be because science doesn't prove things, only disprove them.

It appears you might be confusing the fact of gravity (bodies with mass attract each other), with the theory of gravity (why things with mass attract). If you believe I said otherwise, you are welcome to link to the supposed post.
 

Finshaggy

Well-Known Member
No I didn't. Must be more of your lack of comprehension of something else that I said because I know things fall at the same rate in the same gravitational field. I do know that no theory, gravity or otherwise, has ever been proven and never will be because science doesn't prove things, only disprove them.

It appears you might be confusing the fact of gravity (bodies with mass attract each other), with the theory of gravity (why things with mass attract). If you believe I said otherwise, you are welcome to link to the supposed post.
Lol. NOO.
I tried to say that it was widely accepted, and was in the past proven.
And you said that it was not proven, and in fact didn't even work that way. I was not confused. You are changing words.
I tried to find it, to post the moon thing there. But I think the thread was closed. It was the one that someone started where we were talking about aliens. And possibilities. And you got hung up on a comment I made about something only semi-related, in a piece of one of my posts.
 

mindphuk

Well-Known Member
Lol. NOO.
I tried to say that it was widely accepted, and was in the past proven.
And you said that it was not proven, and in fact didn't even work that way. I was not confused. You are changing words.
I tried to find it, to post the moon thing there. But I think the thread was closed. It was the one that someone started where we were talking about aliens. And possibilities. And you got hung up on a comment I made about something only semi-related, in a piece of one of my posts.
Dude, don't claim I said some bullshit I didn't say unless you can prove it. I'm not gonna let you get away lying about what I said. You're memory is faulty. I understand how gravity works. Why in the world would I say that that G is different for different objects? You're not making sense. G is different for different planets and moons as your video clearly demonstrates G on the moon is much less than G on earth. Most of your replies demonstrated you didn't understand what I was saying anyway. Saying that theories are never proven is true. You were trying to say that Eddington proved Einstein and I corrected you to say that Eddington confirmed a portion of Einstein's theory but that doesn't 'prove' the theory correct because theories are never proven correct. The discussion was about semantics but you kept thinking I was saying the theories were wrong or some bullshit like that. Like I said, you didn't understand what I was saying until I posted a magazine article to explain it better but you insisted on continuing to argue and how you got to think I said things fall at different rates I can't figure out.
 

Finshaggy

Well-Known Member
Dude, don't claim I said some bullshit I didn't say unless you can prove it. I'm not gonna let you get away lying about what I said. You're memory is faulty. I understand how gravity works. Why in the world would I say that that G is different for different objects? You're not making sense. G is different for different planets and moons as your video clearly demonstrates G on the moon is much less than G on earth. Most of your replies demonstrated you didn't understand what I was saying anyway. Saying that theories are never proven is true. You were trying to say that Eddington proved Einstein and I corrected you to say that Eddington confirmed a portion of Einstein's theory but that doesn't 'prove' the theory correct because theories are never proven correct. The discussion was about semantics but you kept thinking I was saying the theories were wrong or some bullshit like that. Like I said, you didn't understand what I was saying until I posted a magazine article to explain it better but you insisted on continuing to argue and how you got to think I said things fall at different rates I can't figure out.
You did say that. I even remembered the thread and tried to find it. Sorry I couldn't, but I do remember.

Your whole point was that "Nothing is proven". And you went on to say that things didn't even fall at the same rate, and that there was no "Speed for gravity".
 

mindphuk

Well-Known Member
You did say that. I even remembered the thread and tried to find it. Sorry I couldn't, but I do remember.

Your whole point was that "Nothing is proven". And you went on to say that things didn't even fall at the same rate, and that there was no "Speed for gravity".
Yes, I did say that, but not what you claimed I said a few posts up. Yes, nothing is proven, and your point? There is no such thing as speed of gravity and I'm not the only one that had to correct you on that issue. There is acceleration due to gravity but that acceleration is mass dependent. Acceleration is the rate that speed increases so there is no speed of gravity. Acceleration happens to be a bit less than 10m/s^2 on earth but even you can see from the video that it is much less on the moon. You are wrong claiming that I said that things accelerated at different rates in the SAME gravitational field. You're faulty memory does not give you an excuse to lie about what I said.
 

Finshaggy

Well-Known Member
Yes, I did say that, but not what you claimed I said a few posts up. Yes, nothing is proven, and your point? There is no such thing as speed of gravity and I'm not the only one that had to correct you on that issue. There is acceleration due to gravity but that acceleration is mass dependent. Acceleration is the rate that speed increases so there is no speed of gravity. Acceleration happens to be a bit less than 10m/s^2 on earth but even you can see from the video that it is much less on the moon. You are wrong claiming that I said that things accelerated at different rates in the SAME gravitational field. You're faulty memory does not give you an excuse to lie about what I said.
Everything falls at the same SPEED, due to gravity.
 

Finshaggy

Well-Known Member
Yes, I did say that, but not what you claimed I said a few posts up. Yes, nothing is proven, and your point? There is no such thing as speed of gravity and I'm not the only one that had to correct you on that issue. There is acceleration due to gravity but that acceleration is mass dependent. Acceleration is the rate that speed increases so there is no speed of gravity. Acceleration happens to be a bit less than 10m/s^2 on earth but even you can see from the video that it is much less on the moon. You are wrong claiming that I said that things accelerated at different rates in the SAME gravitational field. You're faulty memory does not give you an excuse to lie about what I said.
And I don't have a faulty memory/

I remember the thread. The context you said it in. And what you said.
 
Top