Israeli Occupation my ass!!!!
- Thread starter RickWhite
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kendothegreenwizard
Active Member
Boarding a ship in international waters is against international law. The Isreali's are not as above the law as they think they are. The passengers were well within thier rights to repel the aggressors with clubs and knives just as if the Isreali's were pirates hijacking their ship. The Isreali's know they screwed the pooch bigtime and that is why they are releasing All the passengers the have kidnapped including the ones that attacked and gutted the soldiers. If they had even one toe to stand on they would never release them because it is against their hardline stance.
abe23
Active Member
Under international, if there is an armed conflict, a state has the right to maintain a naval blockade to prevent weapons shipments, which includes boarding vessels of neutral countries in the high seas. Also, the agreement between israel and the palestinian authority that started the 'peace process' does give israel the right to control external borders, including maritime ones. They also control the land borders to the west bank for this reason. Look it up...
Not defending any of it, just stating the facts. The best way to end the blockade on gaza would be to negotiate a peace, but no one seems to be genuinely interested in that at this point, neither israel, hamas or the pa. Also, if you look at what kind of weapons are getting smuggled into lebanon since israel gave up control there, it makes you wonder if they don't have a point to be worried that the same thing will happen in gaza.
ginjawarrior
Well-Known Member
hopefully there will be serious peace talks started very soon as this problem isnt going away. more countries are sending ships and it seems turkey might even send its navy...
if it carrys on like before i see this becoming the shit storm thats been looming for how many decade?
The MV Rachel Corrie carries forward the Freedom Flotilla Movement
June 3, 7:53 AM
SF Muslim Examiner
Davi Barker
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MV Rachel Corrie docked in [FONT="]Dundalk, Ireland.[/FONT]
Details about the Freedom Flotilla captured by Israeli warships in international waters continue to develop. Many in the international community are describing the incident as an act of piracy, others as an act of state terrorism. The six vessels that were seized were only the first wave of what is shaping up to be an ongoing Flotilla Movement intent on breaking through Israel’s naval blockade to deliver humanitarian aid to the suffering people of Gaza.
The MV Rachel Corrie, named for the American activist who was crushed by Israeli bulldozers in 2003, was originally intended to be the first ship to reach the coast of Gaza but unexpected mechanical problems forced her to stay behind.
Now, fully repaired, she is more determined than ever to deliver her humanitarian cargo to the shores of Gaza. The six Malaysian and five Irish peace activists aboard (Including 1976 Nobel Peace Prize winner Mairead Maguire) expressed grief for those killed aboard the Turkish Mavi Marmara when Israeli storm troopers descended from helicopters and opened fire on its passengers. They have asked the international community to continue putting pressure on Israel, and asked Israel to allow their safe passage to Gaza.
Now more are joining the Floitlla Movement. Three more ships departed from Malaysia on route to Palestine that were not part of the original fleet. There are also reports that Turkey intends to launch a second wave of support, possibly accompanied by Turkish naval escorts.
The MV Rachel Corrie is currently waiting in the Mediterranean for the passenger ship Challenger II also delayed by similar mechanical problems. The two ships will take aboard additional activists and journalists making a second attempt to cross the blockade. They are expected to arrive in Gaza sometime before Monday.
Israel has pledged to intercept the vessels if they do not change their course, or submit to an inspection, although the cargo was already inspected for contraband before leaving Ireland. According to an Israeli Naval Commander speaking to the Jerusalem Post, “Next time we’ll use more force.” Irish Prime Minister Brian Cowen has said that there will be “most serious consequences” if the Irish passengers on board are harmed . Relations between Ireland and Israel are already strained after it came to light that Israel had forged Irish passports in order to assassinate members of Hamas in Dubai last January.
if it carrys on like before i see this becoming the shit storm thats been looming for how many decade?
The MV Rachel Corrie carries forward the Freedom Flotilla Movement
June 3, 7:53 AM
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2 comments Subscribe Subscribe
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MV Rachel Corrie docked in [FONT="]Dundalk, Ireland.[/FONT]
Details about the Freedom Flotilla captured by Israeli warships in international waters continue to develop. Many in the international community are describing the incident as an act of piracy, others as an act of state terrorism. The six vessels that were seized were only the first wave of what is shaping up to be an ongoing Flotilla Movement intent on breaking through Israel’s naval blockade to deliver humanitarian aid to the suffering people of Gaza.
The MV Rachel Corrie, named for the American activist who was crushed by Israeli bulldozers in 2003, was originally intended to be the first ship to reach the coast of Gaza but unexpected mechanical problems forced her to stay behind.
Now, fully repaired, she is more determined than ever to deliver her humanitarian cargo to the shores of Gaza. The six Malaysian and five Irish peace activists aboard (Including 1976 Nobel Peace Prize winner Mairead Maguire) expressed grief for those killed aboard the Turkish Mavi Marmara when Israeli storm troopers descended from helicopters and opened fire on its passengers. They have asked the international community to continue putting pressure on Israel, and asked Israel to allow their safe passage to Gaza.
Now more are joining the Floitlla Movement. Three more ships departed from Malaysia on route to Palestine that were not part of the original fleet. There are also reports that Turkey intends to launch a second wave of support, possibly accompanied by Turkish naval escorts.
The MV Rachel Corrie is currently waiting in the Mediterranean for the passenger ship Challenger II also delayed by similar mechanical problems. The two ships will take aboard additional activists and journalists making a second attempt to cross the blockade. They are expected to arrive in Gaza sometime before Monday.
Israel has pledged to intercept the vessels if they do not change their course, or submit to an inspection, although the cargo was already inspected for contraband before leaving Ireland. According to an Israeli Naval Commander speaking to the Jerusalem Post, “Next time we’ll use more force.” Irish Prime Minister Brian Cowen has said that there will be “most serious consequences” if the Irish passengers on board are harmed . Relations between Ireland and Israel are already strained after it came to light that Israel had forged Irish passports in order to assassinate members of Hamas in Dubai last January.
Uragan
Member
i agree. Israel is a "tiny super power" with the serious mental disorder, they do terror against tiny nation of Palestinians. This geopolitical problem is very complex that's why difficult to judge. There was president Isaac Rabin he had made an experiment solve this problem with more human tools than like the Netanyahu regime do, he was murdered. Israel has become the bad guy of the foreign policy. It is a real shame.
The Grinch
Well-Known Member
Just wondering what you guys think about the Israeli statement that the blockade is there to prevent rocket fire?
I agree that the blockade should be ended for reasons already mentioned a hundred times, but I won't be making any travel plans to Israel if/when it ends because of the massive increase in rocket fire and suicide bombings the region is sure to experience.
I agree that the blockade should be ended for reasons already mentioned a hundred times, but I won't be making any travel plans to Israel if/when it ends because of the massive increase in rocket fire and suicide bombings the region is sure to experience.
dickdasterdly666
Well-Known Member
lol rocket fire. owwww.
do you know what type of rockets they own? ill give you a little on that, they make their rockets in a kitchen. lol that how primitive their weapons are, while Israel has 200 nukes alone not to mention phosphorus and on and on and on.
if someone came and killed half you family and friends then kicked you and your family out of your 5 bedroom home and locked you up in the shed for the next 60 years wouldnt you start thinking how to retaliate out of frustration by any means possible.?
ultraviolet pirate
Well-Known Member
word...a great deal of respect could be gained in the arab world if we would just admit the palestinians have a very good reason to be angry.
The Grinch
Well-Known Member
Sorry, I didn't mean rocket fire by existing means. I meant from proper rockets which would be shipped in from groups whose agendas are the wiping out of Israel.
thebuttonpusher
New Member
The Flotilla was flying the Flag of Turkey, an Israeli Ally, they are not enemies. And since there were no weapons as the flotilla had been inspected TWICE before leaving port there was no need to even board the vessel. Normally this would be an act of war, thank goodness cooler heads in Turkey prevail.
abe23
Active Member
The point of a blockade is that you don't let anyone through. It wasn't inspected by israel until the cargo was unloaded, put onto trucks and let through the land crossing into gaza a few days ago. If you accept that israel is an armed conflict with hamas then legally they have a right to maintain their blockade, which includes boarding neutral ships in the high seas.
I agree that the situation in gaza is a disaster and that something needs to be done about it. But sending an 'aid flotilla' through a blockade with the intent of causing a confrontation isn't. Again, this isn't about aid, it's about a publicity stunt...
I agree that the situation in gaza is a disaster and that something needs to be done about it. But sending an 'aid flotilla' through a blockade with the intent of causing a confrontation isn't. Again, this isn't about aid, it's about a publicity stunt...
ginjawarrior
Well-Known Member
the thing is nothing is being done about it is there?
discounting it as a publicity stunt is weak and feeble, isnt any form of protest a publicity stunt?
mindphuk
Well-Known Member
Those troublesome Jews
Charles Krauthammer
Friday, June 4, 2010
The world is outraged at Israel's blockade of Gaza. Turkey denounces its illegality, inhumanity, barbarity, etc. The usual U.N. suspects, Third World and European, join in. The Obama administration dithers.
But as Leslie Gelb, former president of the Council on Foreign Relations, writes, the blockade is not just perfectly rational, it is perfectly legal. Gaza under Hamas is a self-declared enemy of Israel -- a declaration backed up by more than 4,000 rockets fired at Israeli civilian territory. Yet having pledged itself to unceasing belligerency, Hamas claims victimhood when Israel imposes a blockade to prevent Hamas from arming itself with still more rockets.
In World War II, with full international legality, the United States blockaded Germany and Japan. And during the October 1962 missile crisis, we blockaded ("quarantined") Cuba. Arms-bearing Russian ships headed to Cuba turned back because the Soviets knew that the U.S. Navy would either board them or sink them. Yet Israel is accused of international criminality for doing precisely what John Kennedy did: impose a naval blockade to prevent a hostile state from acquiring lethal weaponry.
Oh, but weren't the Gaza-bound ships on a mission of humanitarian relief? No. Otherwise they would have accepted Israel's offer to bring their supplies to an Israeli port, be inspected for military materiel and have the rest trucked by Israel into Gaza -- as every week 10,000 tons of food, medicine and other humanitarian supplies are sent by Israel to Gaza.
Why was the offer refused? Because, as organizer Greta Berlin admitted, the flotilla was not about humanitarian relief but about breaking the blockade, i.e., ending Israel's inspection regime, which would mean unlimited shipping into Gaza and thus the unlimited arming of Hamas.
Israel has already twice intercepted ships laden with Iranian arms destined for Hezbollah and Gaza. What country would allow that?
But even more important, why did Israel even have to resort to blockade? Because, blockade is Israel's fallback as the world systematically de-legitimizes its traditional ways of defending itself -- forward and active defense.
(1) Forward defense: As a small, densely populated country surrounded by hostile states, Israel had, for its first half-century, adopted forward defense -- fighting wars on enemy territory (such as the Sinai and Golan Heights) rather than its own.
Where possible (Sinai, for example) Israel has traded territory for peace. But where peace offers were refused, Israel retained the territory as a protective buffer zone. Thus Israel retained a small strip of southern Lebanon to protect the villages of northern Israel. And it took many losses in Gaza, rather than expose Israeli border towns to Palestinian terror attacks. It is for the same reason America wages a grinding war in Afghanistan: You fight them there, so you don't have to fight them here.
But under overwhelming outside pressure, Israel gave it up. The Israelis were told the occupations were not just illegal but at the root of the anti-Israel insurgencies -- and therefore withdrawal, by removing the cause, would bring peace.
Land for peace. Remember? Well, during the past decade, Israel gave the land -- evacuating South Lebanon in 2000 and Gaza in 2005. What did it get? An intensification of belligerency, heavy militarization of the enemy side, multiple kidnappings, cross-border attacks and, from Gaza, years of unrelenting rocket attack.
(2) Active defense: Israel then had to switch to active defense -- military action to disrupt, dismantle and defeat (to borrow President Obama's description of our campaign against the Taliban and al-Qaeda) the newly armed terrorist mini-states established in southern Lebanon and Gaza after Israel withdrew.
The result? The Lebanon war of 2006 and Gaza operation of 2008-09. They were met with yet another avalanche of opprobrium and calumny by the same international community that had demanded the land-for-peace Israeli withdrawals in the first place. Worse, the U.N. Goldstone report, which essentially criminalized Israel's defensive operation in Gaza while whitewashing the casus belli -- the preceding and unprovoked Hamas rocket war -- effectively de-legitimized any active Israeli defense against its self-declared terror enemies.
(3) Passive defense: Without forward or active defense, Israel is left with but the most passive and benign of all defenses -- a blockade to simply prevent enemy rearmament. Yet, as we speak, this too is headed for international de-legitimation. Even the United States is now moving toward having it abolished.
But, if none of these is permissible, what's left?
Ah, but that's the point. It's the point understood by the blockade-busting flotilla of useful idiots and terror sympathizers, by the Turkish front organization that funded it, by the automatic anti-Israel Third World chorus at the United Nations, and by the supine Europeans who've had quite enough of the Jewish problem.
What's left? Nothing. The whole point of this relentless international campaign is to deprive Israel of any legitimate form of self-defense. Why, just last week, the Obama administration joined the jackals, and reversed four decades of U.S. practice, by signing onto a consensus document that singles out Israel's possession of nuclear weapons -- thus de-legitimizing Israel's very last line of defense: deterrence.
The world is tired of these troublesome Jews, 6 million -- that number again -- hard by the Mediterranean, refusing every invitation to national suicide. For which they are relentlessly demonized, ghettoized and constrained from defending themselves, even as the more committed anti-Zionists -- Iranian in particular -- openly prepare a more final solution.
Charles Krauthammer
Friday, June 4, 2010
The world is outraged at Israel's blockade of Gaza. Turkey denounces its illegality, inhumanity, barbarity, etc. The usual U.N. suspects, Third World and European, join in. The Obama administration dithers.
But as Leslie Gelb, former president of the Council on Foreign Relations, writes, the blockade is not just perfectly rational, it is perfectly legal. Gaza under Hamas is a self-declared enemy of Israel -- a declaration backed up by more than 4,000 rockets fired at Israeli civilian territory. Yet having pledged itself to unceasing belligerency, Hamas claims victimhood when Israel imposes a blockade to prevent Hamas from arming itself with still more rockets.
In World War II, with full international legality, the United States blockaded Germany and Japan. And during the October 1962 missile crisis, we blockaded ("quarantined") Cuba. Arms-bearing Russian ships headed to Cuba turned back because the Soviets knew that the U.S. Navy would either board them or sink them. Yet Israel is accused of international criminality for doing precisely what John Kennedy did: impose a naval blockade to prevent a hostile state from acquiring lethal weaponry.
Oh, but weren't the Gaza-bound ships on a mission of humanitarian relief? No. Otherwise they would have accepted Israel's offer to bring their supplies to an Israeli port, be inspected for military materiel and have the rest trucked by Israel into Gaza -- as every week 10,000 tons of food, medicine and other humanitarian supplies are sent by Israel to Gaza.
Why was the offer refused? Because, as organizer Greta Berlin admitted, the flotilla was not about humanitarian relief but about breaking the blockade, i.e., ending Israel's inspection regime, which would mean unlimited shipping into Gaza and thus the unlimited arming of Hamas.
Israel has already twice intercepted ships laden with Iranian arms destined for Hezbollah and Gaza. What country would allow that?
But even more important, why did Israel even have to resort to blockade? Because, blockade is Israel's fallback as the world systematically de-legitimizes its traditional ways of defending itself -- forward and active defense.
(1) Forward defense: As a small, densely populated country surrounded by hostile states, Israel had, for its first half-century, adopted forward defense -- fighting wars on enemy territory (such as the Sinai and Golan Heights) rather than its own.
Where possible (Sinai, for example) Israel has traded territory for peace. But where peace offers were refused, Israel retained the territory as a protective buffer zone. Thus Israel retained a small strip of southern Lebanon to protect the villages of northern Israel. And it took many losses in Gaza, rather than expose Israeli border towns to Palestinian terror attacks. It is for the same reason America wages a grinding war in Afghanistan: You fight them there, so you don't have to fight them here.
But under overwhelming outside pressure, Israel gave it up. The Israelis were told the occupations were not just illegal but at the root of the anti-Israel insurgencies -- and therefore withdrawal, by removing the cause, would bring peace.
Land for peace. Remember? Well, during the past decade, Israel gave the land -- evacuating South Lebanon in 2000 and Gaza in 2005. What did it get? An intensification of belligerency, heavy militarization of the enemy side, multiple kidnappings, cross-border attacks and, from Gaza, years of unrelenting rocket attack.
(2) Active defense: Israel then had to switch to active defense -- military action to disrupt, dismantle and defeat (to borrow President Obama's description of our campaign against the Taliban and al-Qaeda) the newly armed terrorist mini-states established in southern Lebanon and Gaza after Israel withdrew.
The result? The Lebanon war of 2006 and Gaza operation of 2008-09. They were met with yet another avalanche of opprobrium and calumny by the same international community that had demanded the land-for-peace Israeli withdrawals in the first place. Worse, the U.N. Goldstone report, which essentially criminalized Israel's defensive operation in Gaza while whitewashing the casus belli -- the preceding and unprovoked Hamas rocket war -- effectively de-legitimized any active Israeli defense against its self-declared terror enemies.
(3) Passive defense: Without forward or active defense, Israel is left with but the most passive and benign of all defenses -- a blockade to simply prevent enemy rearmament. Yet, as we speak, this too is headed for international de-legitimation. Even the United States is now moving toward having it abolished.
But, if none of these is permissible, what's left?
Ah, but that's the point. It's the point understood by the blockade-busting flotilla of useful idiots and terror sympathizers, by the Turkish front organization that funded it, by the automatic anti-Israel Third World chorus at the United Nations, and by the supine Europeans who've had quite enough of the Jewish problem.
What's left? Nothing. The whole point of this relentless international campaign is to deprive Israel of any legitimate form of self-defense. Why, just last week, the Obama administration joined the jackals, and reversed four decades of U.S. practice, by signing onto a consensus document that singles out Israel's possession of nuclear weapons -- thus de-legitimizing Israel's very last line of defense: deterrence.
The world is tired of these troublesome Jews, 6 million -- that number again -- hard by the Mediterranean, refusing every invitation to national suicide. For which they are relentlessly demonized, ghettoized and constrained from defending themselves, even as the more committed anti-Zionists -- Iranian in particular -- openly prepare a more final solution.
dickdasterdly666
Well-Known Member
im sorry but WHY is it against the rules for hamas to gain proper weapons?
and why is it acceptable for Israel to receive tonnes of the latest and most high tech weapons and billions in military aid from US and so on?
especially when Israel is the aggressor. hamas should put their hands on anything from slingshots to the biggest they can in my opinion.
and HAMAS LEGALLY took power of Gaza. do you understand that? which means they are basically the LEGAL GOVERNMENT.
im very disappointed on the lack off knowledge of some that are coming up with, first if you really want the truth then looking at bbc stories or sky news just isnt gonna cut the mustard.
Secondly Legally? Right to maintain their blockade? im sorry for the following but i hope that one day you'll end up in Gaza by mistake and see what IT REALLY is about, not what you think its about.
my friend if you really look into the matter you would be shocked at the truth.
and im not sure your reading what your writing, sending an 'aid flotilla' through a blockade with the intent of causing a confrontation".
first of all no one is sending anything, its people like you and me that find out about a truth that is unbearable and decide to put together and AID convoy, second the blockade is illegitimate and more than criminal, the Zionists are doing what Hitler did to the jews. im not sure if they feel its the Palestinian time or something.
what is the meaning of "intent of causing a confrontation? im sorry but 60years is very sickening for some of us, so when you sit home all cumfy and cozy not caring about others remember that those people are living in a sardine can hungry with no money and no food and no hot water for alot, they cant trade they cant do F all and tesco isnt exactly around the corner, and what you dont know is that over the period of 60 years Israel has been playing a game of divide and conquer. it keeps pushing them in and stealing the land then it blocks them off and starts building in THEIR land and then when that settlement is done they push a lil more and do the same all over, thats why the Palestinians are pissed because they have been hanging onto the "Diplomatic efforts" for 60 years and nothing has happened.
and i dont want to mention the land that Israel STOLE from south Lebanon when it occupied Lebanon until 2000 when hizbullah drove them out of lebanon, who are hizbullah? they are Lebanese majority. but of course when they kick Israel out their own land then they become Islamic Militant Terrorists on US and allies agendas.
and not to mention that till this day they still occupy a part of south lebanon which is one of their best resources since it has the best farm lands and water supplies,
and then on the other side Israel occupies a part of Syria the Golan heights.
and of course just a little reminder that Israel tried to INVADE lebanon in 2006 but it couldnt because hizbullah had become stronger since 2000 and had even more support from Lebanese people and made itself stronger because it knew Israel will try and invade when the time is right.
oh and that invasion was nothing all they killed was like 1300 people which were more than 60% women and children and and almost 1100 out of the 1300 were civilians, and not to mention the thousands of injured people and the displacement of 10s of thousands of people because their homes became sand.
and in 2008 the Invasion on Gaza {as usual} 1000s killed etc.. etc.. etc... etc..
and i can go on and on and on, but if you want to educate yourself then read the goldstone report. which after being published got withdrew and thrown in the trash because of how much is exposed Israels deeds so obviously pressure from here and there and everywhere and oooops no one remembers anything about a goldstone report.
dickdasterdly666
Well-Known Member
WOW really SHOCKEEDDDD, i can tell that Leslie Gelb is nothing more than a retarded puppet
tinyTURTLE
Well-Known Member
the fact that the above article was written by charls krauthammer makes the whole thing a lie, as far as i'm concerned.
dickdasterdly666
Well-Known Member
and just to help out anyone that has 0 knowledge on the subject.
http://www.goldstone-report.org
http://groups.google.com/group/total_truth_sciences/browse_thread/thread/450ef780dc3628c1 {robert fisk = the independent.}
http://www.goldstone-report.org
http://groups.google.com/group/total_truth_sciences/browse_thread/thread/450ef780dc3628c1 {robert fisk = the independent.}
dickdasterdly666
Well-Known Member
funny there are a few of these about and goldstone is an important one, but it seems like me 90% of the population arrogantly think otherwise.