Israeli Occupation my ass!!!!

abe23

Active Member
Israel and the world

Israel's siege mentality
Jun 3rd 2010
From The Economist print edition


The government’s macho attitude is actually making Israel weaker




THE lethal mishandling of Israel’s attack on a ship carrying humanitarian supplies that was trying to break the blockade of Gaza was bound to provoke outrage—and rightly so. The circumstances of the raid are murky and may well remain that way despite an inquiry (see article). But the impression received yet again by the watching world is that Israel resorts to violence too readily. More worryingly for Israel, the episode is accelerating a slide towards its own isolation. Once admired as a plucky David facing down an array of Arab Goliaths, Israel is now seen as the clumsy bully on the block.

Israel’s desire to stop the flotilla reaching Gaza was understandable, given its determination to maintain the blockade. Yet the Israelis also had a responsibility to conduct the operation safely. The campaigners knew that either way they would win. If they had got through, it would have been a triumphant breaching of the blockade. If forcibly stopped, with their cargo of medical equipment and humanitarian aid, they would be portrayed as victims—even if some, as the Israelis contend, brought clubs, knives and poles. As it was, disastrous planning by Israel’s soldiers led to a needless loss of life.

For anyone who cares about Israel, this tragedy should be the starting point for deeper questions—about the blockade, about the Jewish state’s increasing loneliness and the route to peace. A policy of trying to imprison the Palestinians has left their jailer strangely besieged.


Losing friends, strengthening Hamas
The blockade of Gaza is cruel and has failed. The Gazans have suffered sorely but have not been starved into submission. Hamas has not been throttled and overthrown, as Israeli governments (and many others) have wished. Gilad Shalit, an Israeli soldier taken hostage, has not been freed. Weapons and missiles can still be smuggled in through tunnels from Egypt.

Just as bad, from Israel’s point of view, it helps feed antipathy towards Israel, not just in the Arab and Muslim worlds, but in Europe too. Israel once had warm relations with a ring of non-Arab countries in the vicinity, including Iran and Turkey. The deterioration of Israel’s relations with Turkey, whose citizens were among the nine dead, is depriving Israel of a rare Muslim ally and mediator. It is startling how, in its bungled effort to isolate Gaza, democratic Israel has come off worse than Hamas, which used to send suicide-bombers into restaurants.

Most telling of all are the stirrings of disquiet in America, Israel’s most steadfast ally. Americans are still vastly more sympathetic to the Israelis than to the Palestinians. But a growing number, especially Democrats, including many liberal Jews, are getting queasier about what they see as America’s too robotic support for Israel, especially when its government is as hawkish as Binyamin Netanyahu’s. A gap in sympathy for Israel has widened between Democrats and Republicans. Conservatives still tend to back Israel through hell and the high seas. Barack Obama is more conscious that the Palestinians’ failure to get a state is helping to spread anti-American poison across the Muslim world, making it harder for him to deal with Iran, Iraq and Afghanistan. His generals have strenuously made that point. None other than the head of Israel’s Mossad, its foreign intelligence service, declared this week that America has begun to see Israel more as a burden than an asset.

That has led to the charge by hawkish American Republicans, as well as many Israelis, that Mr Obama is bent on betraying Israel. In fact, he is motivated by a harder-nosed appreciation of the pros and cons of America’s cosiness with Israel, and is thus all the keener to prod the Jewish state towards giving the Palestinians a fair deal. He has condemned the building of Jewish settlements on Palestinian territory more bluntly than his predecessors did, because he rightly thinks they make it harder to negotiate a peace deal. Mr Obama’s greater sternness towards Israel is for the general good—including Israel’s.


Harmony is not just a dream
Israel is caught in a vicious circle. The more its hawks think the outside world will always hate it, the more it tends to shoot opponents first and ask questions later, and the more it finds that the world is indeed full of enemies. Though Mr Netanyahu has reluctantly agreed to freeze settlement-building and is negotiating indirectly with Palestinians, he does not give the impression of being willing to give ground in the interests of peace.

Yet the prospect of a deal between Palestinians and Israelis still beckons. The contours of a two-state solution remain crystal-clear: an adjusted border, with Israel keeping some of the biggest settlements while Palestine gets equal swaps of land; Jerusalem shared as a capital, with special provisions for the holy places; and an admission by Palestinians that they cannot return to their old homes in what became Israel in 1948, with some theoretical right of return acknowledged by Israel and a small number of refugees let back without threatening the demographic preponderance of Jewish Israelis.

And what about Hamas, if Israel is to lift the siege of Gaza? How should Israel handle an authoritarian movement that refuses to recognise it and has in the past readily used terror? One answer is to ask the UN to oversee the flow of goods and people going in and out of Gaza. That is hardly a cure-all, but Hamas would become the world’s problem neighbour, not just Israel’s. The Arab world must do more, pressing Hamas to disavow violence, publicly pledge not to resume the firing of rockets at Israeli civilians and revoke its anti-Semitic charter. The West, led by Mr Obama, should call for Hamas to be drawn into negotiations, both with its rival Palestinians on the West Bank as well as with Israel, even if it does not immediately recognise the Jewish state. It is still the party the Palestinians elected in 2006 to represent all of them. None of this will be easy. But the present stalemate is bloodily leading nowhere.

Israel is a regional hub of science, business and culture. Despite its harsh treatment of Palestinians in the land it occupies, it remains a vibrant democracy. But its loneliness, partly self-inflicted, is making it a worse place, not just for the Palestinians but also for its own people. If only it can replenish its stock of idealism and common sense before it is too late.





Copyright © 2010 The Economist Newspaper and The Economist Group. All rights reserved.
 

Operation 420

Well-Known Member
The holocaust was very Wrong,But I believe that isreal use's the guilt of the Holocaust Now to do whatever they want.They have there Mossad agents killing everone........No other country gets away with shit isreal does
Go even deeper than that and you find it was planned. They planned it to get Palestine in the Balfour agreement and to gain sympathy from the world to further their agenda.

What other country could shoot an American citizen four times in the head and once in the chest and get away with it? And the OP is talking about tents getting ripped up!?! GTFO!

http://abcnews.go.com/WN/Media/american-killed-gaza-aid-flotilla/story?id=10814848

Christian Zionists are so clueless.
 

abe23

Active Member
Wow....you really know what you're talking about. /sarcasm

The balfour declaration was during ww1....the holocaust happened in the early 40s, some 30 years later. Buy yeah...you're right, it's a conspiracy by the jews all so they can go sit on a little patch of desert and kill arabs.

Are you seriously saying that?
 

Operation 420

Well-Known Member
Wow....you really know what you're talking about. /sarcasm

The balfour declaration was during ww1....the holocaust happened in the early 40s, some 30 years later. Buy yeah...you're right, it's a conspiracy by the jews all so they can go sit on a little patch of desert and kill arabs.

Are you seriously saying that?
Like they need to go through with it at it's creation and not 1948? They needed the perfect storm and a way to get sympathy so nobody would question why they were taking Palestinians land and putting them in camps. They want to build the third temple.

If it is just a "patch of desert", then why would they go through all the trouble of making the declaration in the first place?

Nothing to say about the American shot four times in the head? Was that an act of defense? Someone shot once in the head is still a threat to you Zionists?
 

Operation 420

Well-Known Member
Nice that you acknowledge the Balfour declaration so I can show you it was a Banker behind it all. Ever heard the name Rothschild? haha.

(Best Tiny Tim Impersonation) "But please Sir, the poor Khazar fake Jewish bankers need a Zionist State to call their own Sir"

Hmm, I wonder how a guy financing both sides of WWII could do that, and who in the world he could be. I'm stumped. :confused:
 

Attachments

KBRoaster

Active Member
Until you live and have lived there, you truly can't identify what both peoples are trying to do. I see both sides, but unfortunately Israel has to protect itself and we as Americans overwhelmingly support her ability to do so. Their methods I ofter disagree with, but at the end of the day...I know nothing.
 

dickdasterdly666

Well-Known Member
Like they need to go through with it at it's creation and not 1948? They needed the perfect storm and a way to get sympathy so nobody would question why they were taking Palestinians land and putting them in camps. They want to build the third temple.

If it is just a "patch of desert", then why would they go through all the trouble of making the declaration in the first place?

Nothing to say about the American shot four times in the head? Was that an act of defense? Someone shot once in the head is still a threat to you Zionists?
lol its funny they mention that its just a small piece of land and they are not trying to steel it.
mmmmm, i wonder what purpose they had to be in Lebanon when they took over and what purpose that they wont let go of south Lebanon's shiba farms and i wonder why the still occupy Syria's Golan heights.

and for any ignorant that knows a bit of history that Muslims, Jews and Christians were are living in harmony under the Muslim era with no problems at all, infact they were protected under Islamic Law and they still are, go and look at jews in Iran and jews in Morocco and so on which are still living with full security in those countries and dont let anyone tell you any different at all.

The problem does not lye in Muslims wanting to kill jews or jews wanting to get rid of Muslims, but its a pure struggle against Zionists.
even when the Hezbollah leader speaks about anything towards Israel he always addresses Zionism.
Muslims are tasked with respecting Jews and Christians and any other human being on earth, Unless they are at war with you and trying to kill you.
 

tinyTURTLE

Well-Known Member
Until you live and have lived there, you truly can't identify what both peoples are trying to do. I see both sides, but unfortunately Israel has to protect itself and we as Americans overwhelmingly support her ability to do so. Their methods I ofter disagree with, but at the end of the day...I know nothing.
this american doesn't support that at all.
 

raverguy

Well-Known Member
it would have made more sense for Israel to have been cut out of Germany/Poland.

Was the area that Israel sits on today an area once owned by Germany?

well either way as a nation we support Israel, although its gonna be a tough sale after boarding incident.

nothing good will come of that mess.
 

Operation 420

Well-Known Member
let me make sure i understand you correctly: you say the holocaust, which resulted in the death of 6 million jewish people among others, was planned...by zionists.

is that about right?:confused:
You're aware that the Balfour Declaration was orchestrated by a guy that funded both sides of WWII right? It clearly say's "Zionist" in the letter correct?

Do the 5 million non jews killed during WWII not count or something?

Again people skirt the American shot in the head issue. :wall:

I don't dislike Jew's, Christians or any other people. I just dislike Zionists.
 

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
I never said you dislike jews. and with respect to the american, well, they were wrned of running a naval blockade and chose to proceed. if we had up a naval blockade and ANYONE tried to run it, they would be dust.

as far as the romas and gays and political dissenters also slaughtered in the holocaust, i did say 'among others' in my original statement. which raises an interesting point...

if indeed the holocaust was orchestrated to rile sympathy for the jews so they could have a homeland (the defintion of zionism), why so many others slaughtered? how did that all fall in the plan? what was the purpose for the wholesale slaughter of approx 10 million others? why did the jehovah's witnesses not get a homeland?
 

abe23

Active Member
Seriously, you're arguing with this guy....? He thinks the shoah was a big publicity stunt by the jews. Come on, you're not seriously going to have a debate about it with him...are you?

But I am glad that holocaust deniers get to have a voice on this forum. You're making excellent use of your right to free speech, buddy. Keep it up...

By the way, buddy, maybe you should look up the word 'zionism'. You seem to think it's some sort of conspiracy. In reality, it's the idea that jews should have a homeland. But I know....you think jews should go back to poland and germany and just give everything else to the poor palestinians who have spent the last 60 years trying to create their own state through peaceful means. I mean, they're always looking for peace with israel, but all israel wants to do is take away their coriander and shoot missiles at them from helicopters.
 

tinyTURTLE

Well-Known Member
Seriously, you're arguing with this guy....? He thinks the shoah was a big publicity stunt by the jews. Come on, you're not seriously going to have a debate about it with him...are you?

But I am glad that holocaust deniers get to have a voice on this forum. You're making excellent use of your right to free speech, buddy. Keep it up...

By the way, buddy, maybe you should look up the word 'zionism'. You seem to think it's some sort of conspiracy. In reality, it's the idea that jews should have a homeland. But I know....you think jews should go back to poland and germany and just give everything else to the poor palestinians who have spent the last 60 years trying to create their own state through peaceful means. I mean, they're always looking for peace with israel, but all israel wants to do is take away their coriander and shoot missiles at them from helicopters.
i think the kurds should have a homeland too.
try telling that to iraq, turkey and iran.
 

abe23

Active Member
Agreed! They are a people and should have their own country if they want....which they do.

Maybe we need to go tell the turks protesting the blockade that they don't even have to leave their own country if they want to fight injustice...
 

tinyTURTLE

Well-Known Member
Agreed! They are a people and should have their own country if they want....which they do.

Maybe we need to go tell the turks protesting the blockade that they don't even have to leave their own country if they want to fight injustice...
no, i think the UN should make iran, iraq and turkey cede kurdish tribal lands to the kurds because saddam used nerve gas on them.
 

fdd2blk

Well-Known Member
the "grow up" was meant for those fighting lame wars, not those posting here. just to clarify. :)


doesn't there come a day when everyone just gets "tired". so meaningless, all of this is.

:(
 

tinyTURTLE

Well-Known Member
the "grow up" was meant for those fighting lame wars, not those posting here. just to clarify. :)


doesn't there come a day when everyone just gets "tired". so meaningless, all of this is.

:(
make weed smoking mandatory in the middle east.
solved.
 
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