Jamaican landrace?

Jogro

Well-Known Member
No such thing as a true jamacan landrace, cannabis was brought to the island
In the context of cannabis, "land-race" refers to a strain grown in a particular isolated geographic location, that, after many generations has become acclimated to that area and offers its own unique characteristics. By definition, all pharmaceutically relevant landrace strains have been selectively bred by people at one point.

The Jamaican strains were probably introduced by Indian laborers in the mid 19th century, though there may be other Asian or even African cannabis influences there. Regardless, after growing and being selectively bred on the island for 150 years, they'd represent about as true of a "landrace" as you're going to find anywhere. In particular, the Jamaican landraces were known for a particularly "speedy" high. Also, like most sativas, these strains don't do as well if grown outside their natural climate.

The issue isn't that there isn't such a thing as a true Jamaican "land-race" (there is, or at least used to be); the issue is that everyone in Jamaica is growing outside, and the pollen from one grow corrupts another. After two decades of importing indica-based and other strains to increase harvest rate, most if not all of the current Jamaican stuff is "mongrel" stuff of various and uncertain genetic backgrounds.

I don't know if any of the "pure" older stains still exist. Jamaica is big enough that its at least *possible* that some true older genetics are still around, but its pretty unlikely that you're going to find something like that sold on a beach. As pure sativas, the true Jamaican landrace plants would only offer one harvest per year, and of lower quantity. This is not the stuff that commercial growers will want to grow for sale.
 

Sunbiz1

Well-Known Member
I've traveled to Jamacia probably a dozen times over the years. Everytime I get weed, it's terrible. Just terrible seedy, shit tasting, like it's been wet. The only place I've gotten worse weed than Jamacia was Costa Rica ($20 oz compressed utlra dirt) and Hawaii (beatiful looking but fake weed, no time to inspect). I don't know where the Jamacia rep comes from.

However, I saw this new strain on Sannies site a couple of weeks ago. Might be exactly what some people are looking for if you have time to flower it. Colombian Gold x Jamaican Lambsbread.

http://www.sanniesshop.com/colombian-gold-x-jamaican-lambsbread-en.html
Saw this already, and posted it as well...it's my next order from them.
 

canefan

Well-Known Member
Saw this already, and posted it as well...it's my next order from them.
LOL just waiting on the mailman for this cross
Justanother head - yeah down here in Costa Rica the ticos just wait on gringos to sell the shitty smoke, but you did get a good price. You really have to live down here to find the good local stuff but they still dry it differently than we do in the states. Also, even my top shelf stuff only goes for $100 an oz. I might add this is some of Sannie's best strains and that is all you can get.
 

JustAnotherHead

New Member
LOL just waiting on the mailman for this cross
Justanother head - yeah down here in Costa Rica the ticos just wait on gringos to sell the shitty smoke, but you did get a good price. You really have to live down here to find the good local stuff but they still dry it differently than we do in the states. Also, even my top shelf stuff only goes for $100 an oz. I might add this is some of Sannie's best strains and that is all you can get.
Spent a few years total in Costa a few years back. Would go there with like a grand and stay for a couple of months or until the cash ran out. That brick weed was so bad. I did finally meet a couple rasta guys from the Atlantic side and scored some better stuff. I always got ripped off in Jaco. Quit going back after awhile because all my favorite beaches and surf spots got walled off and inaccesible or they put a high rise on the water. They totally ruined Tamirindo. Anyways.... I wayyyyy OT.
 

canefan

Well-Known Member
Spent a few years total in Costa a few years back. Would go there with like a grand and stay for a couple of months or until the cash ran out. That brick weed was so bad. I did finally meet a couple rasta guys from the Atlantic side and scored some better stuff. I always got ripped off in Jaco. Quit going back after awhile because all my favorite beaches and surf spots got walled off and inaccesible or they put a high rise on the water. They totally ruined Tamirindo. Anyways.... I wayyyyy OT.
I hear you on that, Jaco is not the place to go anymore, if it really ever was. I have lived here for almost 6 years now and the beaches or playas are not the place to find anything decent. I have grown out some of that brickweed seeds though and came out with some outstanding sativas. Heading to Panama in Jan to spend some time up in the mountains way off the beaten path to look for some good local stuff. Last time I did this I was robbed at the house and lost many years of genetics so the quest starts anew.
If you ever come down this way again drop me a PM and I will hook you up with some of mine for your stay.
Pura Vida
 

Sunbiz1

Well-Known Member
LOL just waiting on the mailman for this cross
Justanother head - yeah down here in Costa Rica the ticos just wait on gringos to sell the shitty smoke, but you did get a good price. You really have to live down here to find the good local stuff but they still dry it differently than we do in the states. Also, even my top shelf stuff only goes for $100 an oz. I might add this is some of Sannie's best strains and that is all you can get.
I'm going to try winterizing this strain b/c I cannot use it for in-grounds this far north. I should be able to accomplish this by exposing a mother briefly to sub-freezing temps, then the resulting clones taken should be hardier. However, the last time I tried growing Jamaican was outdoors in Florida...and it turned out to be not very potent. My theory at the time was the same experience as DJ Short had when growing island strains, that being they don't do so well outside of their native habitats/environments. You have the native soil and climate to work with(no fair...lol!), while the rest of us have to try and somehow re-create it.

Only 100 for medical grade stuff?...good thing the dollar goes a bit further down there.
 

JustAnotherHead

New Member
I'm going to try winterizing this strain b/c I cannot use it for in-grounds this far north. I should be able to accomplish this by exposing a mother briefly to sub-freezing temps, then the resulting clones taken should be hardier. However, the last time I tried growing Jamaican was outdoors in Florida...and it turned out to be not very potent. My theory at the time was the same experience as DJ Short had when growing island strains, that being they don't do so well outside of their native habitats/environments. You have the native soil and climate to work with(no fair...lol!), while the rest of us have to try and somehow re-create it.

Only 100 for medical grade stuff?...good thing the dollar goes a bit further down there.
Man you guys are making me wax nostalgic. The dollar used to go FORRRREVVVER down there. Like $1.00 for a meal of rice, pork, beans. .25 cents for a Imperial beer, 10 dollar a night hotels on water. etc. Now it's like any other tourist trap. Nicarauga is where it's at now, just don't go out at night in the cities! :)
 

gargantuanganja

Well-Known Member
Best Bet would be to Pollenate it from it if its male Auto Flowering strain like Auto AK or Lowryder to shorten its hight and flowering time:-)
You couldn't be more wrong. Bonafide landrace sativas and strains with untainted genetics are ruined by people with greedy, impatient mind sets. Colombian Gold, Acapulco Gold, or Thai landraces (REAL landraces, not "landraces" that flower in under 12 weeks) that haven't been completely ruined by hybridizing will outsmoke any hybrid any day, in my, and many others opinions. The cannabis community needs more people devoted to the preservation of the most amazing cannabis available. Most people breed cannabis to get the shortest flowering time with the highest yields and thc content and what you end up with is a shitload of average bud. I don't care about yields or flowering time. All I care about is quality and I wish more people felt the way I do. I dare any of you to try and find some genuine landrace strains that take over 14 weeks to flower. It's not going to be easy... I promise. Why the HELL would you take one of the best strains available and cross it with something inferior because you're impatient or greedy?
 

rollin in grass

Well-Known Member
You couldn't be more wrong. Bonafide landrace sativas and strains with untainted genetics are ruined by people with greedy, impatient mind sets. Colombian Gold, Acapulco Gold, or Thai landraces (REAL landraces, not "landraces" that flower in under 12 weeks) that haven't been completely ruined by hybridizing will outsmoke any hybrid any day, in my, and many others opinions. The cannabis community needs more people devoted to the preservation of the most amazing cannabis available. Most people breed cannabis to get the shortest flowering time with the highest yields and thc content and what you end up with is a shitload of average bud. I don't care about yields or flowering time. All I care about is quality and I wish more people felt the way I do. I dare any of you to try and find some genuine landrace strains that take over 14 weeks to flower. It's not going to be easy... I promise. Why the HELL would you take one of the best strains available and cross it with something inferior because you're impatient or greedy?
You are so on point its crazy. USC at sannies shop has the right mindset,
landraces are an endangered species and they need to be saved from extinction. And people that dont get to grow pure landraces in their natural climate have to settle for growing them with crossed genetics in a climate thats not optimal (nothing is more
optimal to a landrace than it own region outdoors) so crosses with skunk is understandable cuz thats easier for indoor growing. That aside I want a Hawaiian landrace, maui wowie sounds like my all around perfect/favorite strain and seems like any landrace that still exists in Hazaii is dankage at the highest degree.
 

Jogro

Well-Known Member
(REAL landraces, not "landraces" that flower in under 12 weeks)
Well, just to be clear here, you're talking about tropical/equatorial (sativa) landraces.
The subcontinental (indica) landraces all flower in under 12 weeks, and the best of those strains will still hit you in the head like a sledgehammer.

I don't care about yields or flowering time. All I care about is quality and I wish more people felt the way I do. I dare any of you to try and find some genuine landrace strains that take over 14 weeks to flower. It's not going to be easy... I promise. Why the HELL would you take one of the best strains available and cross it with something inferior because you're impatient or greedy?
I think you're oversimplifying this a little bit. Its not just greed or impatience that are at play here.

You literally CANNOT grow most of these tropical/equatorial strains outdoors in most of the United States because there isn't enough summer to pull it off. The plants won't finish until December, and by then they'll be killed by frost.

Even disregarding the extra long time necessary to grow and the typically low yields, both of which themselves are strong disincentives to choosing landrace sativas for indoor growing, these plants also tend to stretch under artificial light and produce hermaphrodite flowers, so even under the best circumstances, they aren't well suited to growing indoors either.

Yes, it can still be done, but its a lot more challenging doing it with these sorts of plants than with ones specifically bred for indoor growing. Basically, there wouldn't be such thing as modern home cultivation of cannabis under lights if it weren't for these hybrids.

Lastly, times have changed in the post 9-11 era. Its just not the 1970s anymore, and smuggling in large amounts of cannabis from Columbia or Jamaica, let alone Thailand or Africa has become prohibitively difficult to the point where it doesn't even pay to try anymore. As a result, most "young" smokers of today have never even tried the old landrace strains, further reducing demand.
 

gargantuanganja

Well-Known Member
Well, just to be clear here, you're talking about tropical/equatorial (sativa) landraces. The subcontinental (indica) landraces all flower in under 12 weeks, and the best of those strains will still hit you in the head like a sledgehammer. I think you're oversimplifying this a little bit. Its not just greed or impatience that are at play here. You literally CANNOT grow most of these tropical/equatorial strains outdoors in most of the United States because there isn't enough summer to pull it off. The plants won't finish until December, and by then they'll be killed by frost. Even disregarding the extra long time necessary to grow and the typically low yields, both of which themselves are strong disincentives to choosing landrace sativas for indoor growing, these plants also tend to stretch under artificial light and produce hermaphrodite flowers, so even under the best circumstances, they aren't well suited to growing indoors either. Yes, it can still be done, but its a lot more challenging doing it with these sorts of plants than with ones specifically bred for indoor growing. Basically, there wouldn't be such thing as modern home cultivation of cannabis under lights if it weren't for these hybrids. Lastly, times have changed in the post 9-11 era. Its just not the 1970s anymore, and smuggling in large amounts of cannabis from Columbia or Jamaica, let alone Thailand or Africa has become prohibitively difficult to the point where it doesn't even pay to try anymore. As a result, most "young" smokers of today have never even tried the old landrace strains, further reducing demand.
I agree with you on most points, most certainly where the landrace indicas flower in under 12 weeks. I meant to clarify that I was only talking about sativa landraces and I apologize if I was misleading. Landrace strains grown outdoors can be unrestrained and they also gets the UVB light that the indoor plants are lacking which supposedly increases resin production as a defense mechanism, but I, like you, didn't think these landraces could be reasonably grown indoors until I talked to a couple independant breeders (the only 2 I found with real landraces) that told me LSTing them works unexpectedly well and claim it's essential. MOST closet growers probably don't have the patience or the room for a strain like this, and, if they do, they may not want to grow it because of the low yields. I also agree that the demand has been reduced because of the unavailability and simply the fact that most people don't even know what they are, and, if they do, it's probably a hybridized strain that's been ruined and labeled as genuine. There are definitely more factors at play than greed and impatience. I must say that I think unawareness is a bigger factor than the idea that they can't be grown indoors. You might be right since I'm not speaking from experience, but I don't think those guys would lie to me and I will find out for myself soon enough. I'll be sure to post my experiences. I'm going to supercrop some Acapulco Gold, Tex-Mex, and Colombian Gold in a 5x5x8 room. I plan on starting them after this crop.

P.S. I'm not arguing that hybrids arn't the best choice for 99.9% of indoor growers. I'm just arguing that there are so many hybrids already, why would take a strain with painstakingly preserved genetics and cross it with something? I personally don't care about the flowering times, height, or low yields from landraces; I just want that crazy high. Most people arn't like me, and I think most people should choose a hybrid, but I definitely advocate the preservation rather than the hybridization of these gorgeous specimens.
 
I think there is a major component missing to this discussion. The people who grow these strains and live in Jaimaca are poor and struggling to stay alive and feed their familys. I know that Jamaica is a beautiful place and a lot of people think its a paradise but I have met people from there and have read about or seen docs and it can be a pretty ruff place to live. I doubt that these growers have the time to research genetics, maintain isolation between feilds and focus on growing quality over quantity. MJ is their cash crop and they are trying to make as much money on tourists as possible. Maybe if americans and westerners didn't consume so much these "third world" countries could actually make a decent living? To these growers MJ isnt just some fun thing to endevor on like a hobby, its their livelyhood. I dont mean to be preachy here and maybe I'm wrong or over generalizing, but I think that one should atleast consider the situation of the people we consume from, MJ or otherwise. This situation plays out all over the world wherever MJ is a major means of living for people and the government is cracking down on traditional MJ farming ... There are landraces all over the world beeing ruined.
(steps off soapbox)
 

cmantis

Member
To the OP if it is a seed from someone on the beach it probably isn't that good. The good stuff comes from up in the mountains.

I've traveled to Jamacia probably a dozen times over the years. Everytime I get weed, it's terrible. Just terrible seedy, shit tasting, like it's been wet. The only place I've gotten worse weed than Jamacia was Costa Rica ($20 oz compressed utlra dirt) and Hawaii (beatiful looking but fake weed, no time to inspect). I don't know where the Jamacia rep comes from.

However, I saw this new strain on Sannies site a couple of weeks ago. Might be exactly what some people are looking for if you have time to flower it. Colombian Gold x Jamaican Lambsbread.

http://www.sanniesshop.com/colombian-gold-x-jamaican-lambsbread-en.html
I agree most of what you get down there is really bad by our standards but that is as an outsider. You have to get to know some locals well and then you can get the good stuff 'lambs bread' if you will (thats what they call it). They don't like selling it to non-jamaicans. When I go I have to put in a special order and it takes at least a day for someone to go and get it and bring it back. The good stuff is there but not for sale on the beaches. I have talked with them extensively about the way they grow and such. I even left some bubble bags for whenever I go back :)
 

Jogro

Well-Known Member
I think there is a major component missing to this discussion. The people who grow these strains and live in Jaimaca are poor and struggling to stay alive and feed their familys. I know that Jamaica is a beautiful place and a lot of people think its a paradise but I have met people from there and have read about or seen docs and it can be a pretty ruff place to live. I doubt that these growers have the time to research genetics, maintain isolation between feilds and focus on growing quality over quantity. MJ is their cash crop and they are trying to make as much money on tourists as possible. Maybe if americans and westerners didn't consume so much these "third world" countries could actually make a decent living? To these growers MJ isnt just some fun thing to endevor on like a hobby, its their livelyhood. I dont mean to be preachy here and maybe I'm wrong or over generalizing, but I think that one should atleast consider the situation of the people we consume from, MJ or otherwise. This situation plays out all over the world wherever MJ is a major means of living for people and the government is cracking down on traditional MJ farming ... There are landraces all over the world beeing ruined.
(steps off soapbox)
I've been to Jamaica, I have a friend from Kingston, and I won't sugarcoat it.

As a tropical Caribbean island, Jamaica is beautiful, but as a country its depressingly poor, and overrun with violent crime and corruption.

In my opinion its wrong to attribute the many problems of Jamaica to the "West" in general, or to the USA in particular. We didn't colonize it and we never ran it. In fact, there are so many expatriate Jamaicans living in the USA sending money back home, that its probably fairer to say that a good bit of Jamaica's economy depends on US support, albeit indirectly. Certainly tourism is one of Jamaica's biggest industries, with the USA being the biggest client, and thing would probably only be that much worse without it.

If you want to blame the British for "ruining" Jamaica, at least you'd have some historical leg to stand on. The Brits certainly weren't perfect, but on balance I think a good case can be made that like many other former colonies Jamaica actually ran better with the Brits in charge. Unfortunately "independence" doesn't suit everyone, and the place has mostly gone to hell after the Brits left in the 60s. Not unsurprisingly, lots of Jamaicans actually feel the same way: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2009487/We-stayed-Britain-Shock-poll-reveals-60-Jamaicans-think-theyd-better-colony.html

Now, I'm off the political soapbox.

On cannabis, the island has a long history of growing it and local use, completely distinct from commercial sale to/for Americans. They'd still be growing it and smoking it, even if there were no American or other tourists there buying it.

In terms of ruining their landraces, non-Jamaicans didn't come to the island to plant foreign genetics. So to the extent that their genetics have been "ruined" the Jamaican growers have done it to themselves looking for higher yields and faster crops. Its the classic "golden goose" situation.

The island itself is large and dense enough that there well may be some places with the "old school" genetics intact. I've seen at least one report that the "good stuff" is still grown there, just not easy to find. Personally, I'd be afraid to even look. And again, take the Jamaican stuff off the island and try to grow it in your closet, and I think you're likely to be disappointed.
 

greenjoe

Well-Known Member
I've traveled to Jamacia probably a dozen times over the years. Everytime I get weed, it's terrible. Just terrible seedy, shit tasting, like it's been wet. The only place I've gotten worse weed than Jamacia was Costa Rica ($20 oz compressed utlra dirt) and Hawaii (beatiful looking but fake weed, no time to inspect). I don't know where the Jamacia rep comes from.

However, I saw this new strain on Sannies site a couple of weeks ago. Might be exactly what some people are looking for if you have time to flower it. Colombian Gold x Jamaican Lambsbread.

http://www.sanniesshop.com/colombian-gold-x-jamaican-lambsbread-en.html
that is because you are getting ripped off.....if you have no connection there...you will not get the real jamaican herb....i am now growing a IBL from my friend there...it has been in his family for 25 years...Solid 9.3.......if you go back there..we fix you up mon...
 

jamboss

Well-Known Member
i live in the caribbean and have smoked all types of jamaican herb, fluorescent green, yellow, tannish brown, olivish green, dark brown, ive had some with bluish hues and only 1 type with a little purple but was a dark green. ive even smoked alot of guyanese 'jam' which is actually weed from guyana that is very similar to jamaican and often is passed as such to the unknowing. i specspeculate the seed was large and more roundish, dark brown but with visible stripes, tho some are more pointed the largeness and stripes is almost synonymous. the purple stem is also synonymous from my experiences or sumtimes a burgundy colour is present instead on seedlings stems which may or may not continue through growth on the petiole. the stems are also very 'furry'.

i doubt you'll get a pure 16+week sativa as the jamaicans joined the americans in this regard. more likely a sat dom hyrbid or indica dom. but should finish in 12weeks tops to some sweet citruscy buds or some nice skunk with hints of sweet and citrus. enjoy!!!
 

jamboss

Well-Known Member
also ive never been to jamaica but its what hawaii was to america in the old days of colombia and mexico to the modern day caribbean, if you catch my drift. bales, bales and more bales all of which was skunk of varying 'stink' and potency. to better understand what i mean watch the strain hunters episode on youtube filmed in trinidad and st.vincent. i know arjan is a scumbag but its a very accurate and informative watch. st.vincent in the last decade and a half has taken the mantle in production of herb (caribbean wise) but jamaica will ALWAYS be king.
 

Rising Moon

Well-Known Member
Also, I've read that many of the younger growers on the island, have basically, accidentally allowed the weakest, hermi prone, runt males to dominate. Because of the practice of removing the big healthy obvious males from gardens, only to leave the small, runt under growth males, that will pollinate everything up, and create garbage out of these selected landraces.

Basically driven by ignorance...
 
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