Jman49 400w Double Chunk Strawberry First Grow in DIY Cabinet

Started the design, build and beginning of grow here: https://www.rollitup.org/grow-room-design-setup/298681-first-time-cabinet-grow-input.html

To pick up and summarize the other thread:
10 clones taken on 3/6, 2 on 3/9 of Double chunk strawberry. 9 are going strong despite the heat wave messing with me. 3 are just going slow. Have been hand watering the bottom of the rockwool until 2 days ago moved 9 to pots with hydroton and started flooding the tray for about 2 minutes 2x a day. The 3 slow ones are just sitting in pots with Hydroton on the bottom and still getting hand watered until more roots pop.

Got a few with the odd shaped leaves. If anyone knows the possible causes.

The edges are no longer turned up , but one looks like it has slight N def, or maybe ZN. The odd thing is they are all watered from same source. How does only one show the light green/yellow between veins?

I was told this strain stays really short and bushy, but it's crazy, the internodal length is at most 1/2 inch.

Will probably veg for another week or 2 before going 12/12.

Tomorrow starts week 3 of veg and will post some new pics.

2 of the runts have picked up the pace, but the other just looks like she will be an under-performer.

Figuring out the watering schedule is driving me crazy. I believe i am either under or over watering as I don't have a lot of leaves standing out. Many are drooping. I think the tall 3" rockwool is what is giving me problems. Shit holds soo much water. Still flooding for about a minute and a half once a day which puts the water level just to the bottom of the RW in the pot. The odd shaped leaves don't seem to be as many though.

Jman49 said:

Looks good cannatari! Is the light still effective that far from the canopy? Granted I have a 400, but I have it maybe 12" for tops of plants. I think I am either over or under watering. I have few leaves that stand straight out. Figuring out a watering schedule is my current problem. Going out of town this weekend, so I have to figure something out soon.

Subscribed to your journal. I think I need to move mine to the grow journal section.

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I quit growing in Ebb&Flow because of that same issue. I've since switched to Deep Water Culture. Your goal is to keep the top 1"-1 1/2" of the containers dry. The plants need a smooth transition from wet to dry where the main stalk emerges from the substrate. Honestly you need to get the idea of overwatering out of your head. As long as you have a good airstone in your resivoir you can keep 1 inch of water circulating constantly in your flood tray. It only takes one spike of heat in between watering to kill everything in an ebb&flow tray. Try 15 on/ 15 off and see if it helps your plants. Definately figure it out before you leave it unattended for a few days. Top your resivoir off just before you leave, especially as it's getting warmer outside. If you trust somebody to check on it, premix a few gallon jugs of nutrients to make it easier for the babysitter to top it off. I've had those trays evaporate in an afternoon!

I am finishing with my 2nd grow of 12 plants and have this advice. If you are getting clones from a friend make sure they are hydro clones and not started in dirt. Dirt always have a shock factor. Make sure that the provider is not giving you any that in anyway have started the flower process, it happened to me and it takes about 3 weeks to pop out of shock. Make sure your water is about 75 degrees, this will help alot. I usually start out will little to no nutrients. And yes there is no such thing as overwatering in DWC, i have had water flowing out the top and it was still fine.
DWC is the way to go, each plant will grow at its own pace and is nice when you can give one less nutes than another. I would say the other 3 probably got nutes when they were not ready for it.
Please keep in mind I am a noob.

cannatari said:

I quit growing in Ebb&Flow because of that same issue. I've since switched to Deep Water Culture. Your goal is to keep the top 1"-1 1/2" of the containers dry. The plants need a smooth transition from wet to dry where the main stalk emerges from the substrate. Honestly you need to get the idea of overwatering out of your head. As long as you have a good airstone in your resivoir you can keep 1 inch of water circulating constantly in your flood tray. It only takes one spike of heat in between watering to kill everything in an ebb&flow tray. Try 15 on/ 15 off and see if it helps your plants. Definately figure it out before you leave it unattended for a few days. Top your resivoir off just before you leave, especially as it's getting warmer outside. If you trust somebody to check on it, premix a few gallon jugs of nutrients to make it easier for the babysitter to top it off. I've had those trays evaporate in an afternoon!

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Hey Canna,

Today, I started to put a large frozen aquafina bottle in the res to keep the temps down. I have been watering 1x a day, and it looks like I will only be gone from Friday night to Sunday morning. I will give a good watering before I leave, and then have the timer take care of Saturday.

My original plan was to use the standard 3" cubes and have 3-4" of hydroton below that would get 3-4 floods for 15 min per day. The guy I am getting my clones from is a pure RW guy, and ended up getting the tall 3" cubes. Therefore there is only about 1-2" of Hydroton below. If I did a full 15 minute flood the water level would be about 3/4 the way up the RW. Seems like that would saturate the RW too much. Keep in mind the tallest plant is only about 6". I will figure it out.

What is the best way to tell the difference between over and under watering? Anybody's response is welcome.

mr2kuhl said:

I am finishing with my 2nd grow of 12 plants and have this advice. If you are getting clones from a friend make sure they are hydro clones and not started in dirt. Dirt always have a shock factor. Make sure that the provider is not giving you any that in anyway have started the flower process, it happened to me and it takes about 3 weeks to pop out of shock. Make sure your water is about 75 degrees, this will help alot. I usually start out will little to no nutrients. And yes there is no such thing as overwatering in DWC, i have had water flowing out the top and it was still fine.
DWC is the way to go, each plant will grow at its own pace and is nice when you can give one less nutes than another. I would say the other 3 probably got nutes when they were not ready for it.
Please keep in mind I am a noob.

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Hey Mr2,

Yes, clones were for hydro. The guy is starting a nursury/dispensary/grow education. No mature plants, he only sells clones and various stages of veg plants. Well he grows the plants to maturity off-site to be able to tell you how long to "cook" them for and other details. He is a friend of a good friend and offered plenty of help since it is my first grow. Problem is he is fighting our lovely city which in is the process of closing all the dispensaries. He got a visit form the Code enforcement, 8 cops and a local newspaper reporter last week and has been a little preoccupied.

BTW, no DWC, it's a turbogarden ebb and flow. I just need to find some good info on under/over watering, as I am not sure which is happening. Any ideas or what to look for?

They do look good, I just expected quicker growth from past research. No 2-3 inches a day, but I do believe the strain has something to do with that. He said they stretch a max of double in flowering, and I have at least 2-3 feet of room to grow, so I am going to veg another week or more.

Jman49 said:

What is the best way to tell the difference between over and under watering? Anybody's response is welcome.

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It's the 3" RW cubes. They should not be soggy and run like a faucet when you pick them up. Your challenge is keeping the roots growing out of the RW wet without over-saturating it. In the future you need to aquire clones in 1 1/2" cubes. The cubes you have are better suited for a bucket system, be it drip or DWC. The cube needs to have 2" or 3" of hydroton underneath it and only receive moisture from the capilary action of the hydroton. The reason you can't nail down under/over watering is because your dealing with underwatering your roots to not overwater the RW. My plants root systems are completely submerged all the time in my DWC buckets. But as in my last post, I maintain a smooth transition from wet to dry at the stalk of the plant. Overwatering is a stalk condition not a root condition. Figure out a way to get an inch or more of hydroton on top of the RW around the stalks, maybe a cut-up partycup or something.

cannatari said:

It's the 3" RW cubes. They should not be soggy and run like a faucet when you pick them up. Your challenge is keeping the roots growing out of the RW wet without over-saturating it. In the future you need to aquire clones in 1 1/2" cubes. The cubes you have are better suited for a bucket system, be it drip or DWC. The cube needs to have 2" or 3" of hydroton underneath it and only receive moisture from the capilary action of the hydroton. The reason you can't nail down under/over watering is because your dealing with underwatering your roots to not overwater the RW. My plants root systems are completely submerged all the time in my DWC buckets. But as in my last post, I maintain a smooth transition from wet to dry at the stalk of the plant. Overwatering is a stalk condition not a root condition. Figure out a way to get an inch or more of hydroton on top of the RW around the stalks, maybe a cut-up partycup or something.

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I was thinking the same thing. Fortunately the next batch will be different. I am getting into a collective where I will be able to go in and cut my own clones (after a 8 hour instruction class) and put them in whatever medium I want. I will use the smaller RW and then run them with a lot more hydroton surrounding the RW.

For these, I don't think i can pull them out of the pots with out harming the roots(most have been in there for over a week). Hopefully they will start drinking enough so the RW does not stay to wet. Until then I will manually flood the tray once a day to the RW and 2-3 times just the hydroton on the bottom. It's going to be more work, but this run was mainly to pop my cherry and get a grow under my belt.

Jman49 said:

... this run was mainly to pop my cherry and get a grow under my belt.

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Wise words. I'm in the same boat. Though I have a few grows under my belt, my new cab needs its cherry popped. Sacrafice reveals potential. When I move into a new place I put a plant under a CFL and wait to see what kills it. The more things that go wrong the better at that point.

Well start of week 3 of veg. Found a digital timer I had lying around and have set it to flood the table for 1 minute every 4 hours. One minute gets the water level about 3/4-1 inch from bottom of pots, so just hydroton, not RW is getting flooded. Then in the morning and evening, I manually flood it 4-5 times until the water level is just below the RW to give the roots some time to sit in the nutes. A 1.5 minute flood would be perfect, but of course 1 minute intervals is the lowest the timer has. I started this yesterday at lunch and they seem to be perking up a little. I figure I'll try and get the roots to cover the very bottom balls and feed like this until their thirst can keep the RW from staying saturated. Still some drooping leaves, but less of them and the ones that are drooping are drooping further out on the leaf. We'll try this for a few days and see the results.

Other than that everything is looking good. The res is no longer getting the white foam and floaties. pH is remaining pretty stable and the box temps are maxing at 85-86 (the weather has been pretty pleasant lately, but today and this weekend when I am gone is supposed to be warm).

The runts are even starting to join the party. #6 is still tiny and kinda yellow, but what are you going to do?

One week left before the magic begins!!!

I took some pics, but forgot the camera, will post later.

Here are the pics from yesterday and this morning. Some new developments-I found a spider mite last night. I was told to get Neem and SM90 and spray them once a week. Also one is developing some browning, maybe heat from the light?

The first 3 are from yesterday morning.

The second three are from last night.

The last 3 are from this morning.

The sixth pic of the skinny one is the one I found the spidermite on.
The 8th pic is the one plant with the browning. It's got some edges that are burned kinda like nute burn, but why just one?

Went out and got a bottle of neem and SM90 and sprayed all the pants let them sit and then sprayed them again. I will follow up in 3 days and then another 3 after that.

Boy did the girls love the spray! Now I am wondering if they are now under watered. A couple of them look like completly different plants now, especially the spider mite one. I have not let the water get to the RW yet this week during floods, so I am going to try and hand water them a tiny bit on the top and see what happens. The growth seems to be taking off now. There is a bit more internodal spacing and they are looking like healthy plants.

I also changed the res last night. It was 9 days old and I figured with another 9 days I can get 3 applications of the neem/SM90, and then flip to flower (assuming the size is a bit better).

I saw on the GH bottle there is a mixture for the veg/flower transition(2-2-2). Should this be started while still in veg, or when 12/12 begins? How long to you use the transition mixture?

Also, how long into flower can you spray with Neem? It doesn't smell too bad, but i certainly don't want my buds tasting like it!

Here is a quick pic from the cell this morning. Mrs. Spider mite in the back right corner made the most drastic improvement after spaying.

Well they made it through the weekend away ok. I think I maybe getting nute burn. I few of the plants are getting browning on the leaves. 2 of them have it pretty bad. How do 2 out of 12 get burned while being fed from the same source? Make me think it might be something else. Maybe not enough water? Seems to happen more on the plants closer to the light. Here are some pics from this morning 3/29/10.

Well they made it through the weekend away ok. I think I maybe getting nute burn. I few of the plants are getting browning on the leaves. 2 of them have it pretty bad. How do 2 out of 12 get burned while being fed from the same source? Make me think it might be something else. Maybe not enough water? Seems to happen more on the plants closer to the light. Here are some pics from this morning 3/29/10. First set of pics are from phone, forgot to change camera settings, so some better resized pics were added.

I took some better pics of the really brown plant. Also I noticed another plant's lower leaves are like balling up. I don't understand it, everything was looking really good and now it's going to shit! I gave them a good water of ph RO last night to flush them out and this morning I drained 1/4 of the res and replaced it with tap water so the ppms went from 1350 to 1150. At this point, thinking the yield is going to be pretty poor(if they don't die first). So much for beginners luck!

If anybody has any ideas, please help!

Yeah, they're not looking too perky. I think your ppm might be a little strong. I shoot for 1200ppm-1350ppm only on a medium to large sized plant that is really healthy. I'd consider knocking your ppm down a bit, down to 750ppm or so. My largest plant is only at 1100ppm. What brand of nutes are you feeding them? Are you using H2O2? How are you managing your PH? The key is to identify and adjust at the first sign of trouble. Hydroponics allow you to make instant changes to a plants uptake. You should see improvement in a few days if you are proper. I'd also recommend that you empty your res and wash it when your having problems, airstones and all. I wash mine with mouthwash, fill it, add 29% H2O2 @ 1tsp/gal, let all the parts soak in it for 30 min before adding nutes and PH adjusments. The res must be sparkling clean at all times. Good luck!

P.S. I just saw that you're using GH. I've never used GH so I can't help you there, but I still say your nutes are too strong. As far as using a transitional formula, I feed mine the veg formula until I see pistils start to develop. My current round of girls that started from seed took 2 weeks, clones usually show in a few days. This will keep the leaves from yellowing near harvest.

cannatari said:

Yeah, they're not looking too perky. I think your ppm might be a little strong. I shoot for 1200ppm-1350ppm only on a medium to large sized plant that is really healthy. I'd consider knocking your ppm down a bit, down to 750ppm or so. My largest plant is only at 1100ppm. What brand of nutes are you feeding them? Are you using H2O2? How are you managing your PH? The key is to identify and adjust at the first sign of trouble. Hydroponics allow you to make instant changes to a plants uptake. You should see improvement in a few days if you are proper. I'd also recommend that you empty your res and wash it when your having problems, airstones and all. I wash mine with mouthwash, fill it, add 29% H2O2 @ 1tsp/gal, let all the parts soak in it for 30 min before adding nutes and PH adjusments. The res must be sparkling clean at all times. Good luck!

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I have drained some of the res and replaced with h2o, bringing my ppm down to about 920 ppm (1150-230 tap). The new growth is not showing any signs of browning. You can kinda see the band on all the plants where something went bad. At about the same level, they start looking nice and green again.

I had just changed my res last Friday(it was 9 days old), and scrubbed the res down before refilling. pH has been pretty stable, never above 6.1 or lower than 5.6. I can't find 29% H2O2, my local hydro store says they are not allowed to sell it anymore. Any idea where to find it?

Yesterday they were looking droopy, so I flooded until the RW got wet and the plants were noticeably heavier. When I got home from work, they looked much more perky. I think they are drinking enough that I am now going to have 2 floods a day hit the RW (2 minutes on), so we will see how they like that.

Growth is doing pretty well, about 1/2" per day. If they like the new flood schedule, I think they will be ready for 12/12 by the end of this weekend.

Tonight they are due for their 3rd spray down of Neem & sm90 for the spider mite. I have not seen any signs of spotting on the leaves, so I am knocking on wood and crossing my fingers that it was just the one and I killed him. After tonight, it will be 3 sprays every 3 days, and now I will spray every week up to a couple of weeks left in flower.

Thanks for the input!

I don't know of another source of 29% H2O2 other than hydro stores and online. You really need to use it to keep your res from getting slimy and smelly. Since your using GH, you have no compatibility issues either. Your garden is looking much better Jman, I'm glad.

cannatari said:

I don't know of another source of 29% H2O2 other than hydro stores and online. You really need to use it to keep your res from getting slimy and smelly. Since your using GH, you have no compatibility issues either. Your garden is looking much better Jman, I'm glad.

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I will keep looking and see if I can find it.

They are looking a bit better. It looks like I am going to switch to 12/12 on Saturday. That's another 9 days for the res. I will clean it out and mix a slightly diluted mix of the transition strength.

What is everyone's opinion on a dark period of 24-36 hours between 18/6 and 12/12? Seems to be one of the never ending arguments like which nute brand is best.

Tomorrow will complete 4 weeks of veg. On Thursday 4/1/10, I took 14 clones for my parents and trimmed up the bottom of the plants to improve air circulation in anticipation for flower cycle. As stated in the cab build thread, I made 2 of my boxes, 1 for me and 1 for my parents (all are Medical users). Since this strain has a relatively short flower period, I think we will be able to keep a cycle going. Take clones 1 week before flower, while I flower, my parents grow clones until rooted for 1-2 weeks and then veg for 4. Then take clones from theirs while I harvest, dry in the box and then sterilize the box for the clones from my parents. I think we will do this a few times until we really get a handle on caring for the plants.

I am still battling the watering problem, those 4" tall RW cubes are killing me. The plants go from under watered to over watered. I honestly don't have high hopes for this harvest. I think my parents will have a much easier time just sticking the 1 1/2" RW cubes in the hydroton, or even the normal size 2 1/2" tall 3" RW. Just not sure if the 1 1/2" have enough support for the plants in the hydroton? Any ideas? Anyhow, yesterday morning they were pretty badly under watered (almost thought I was going to lose 1 or 2). I gave them a good watering, and last night they looked great. This morning, they were over watered droopy. Back and forth! On a positive note, I am really starting to get the hang of what over watering and under watering look like. I had said that this first crop was going to be a learning tool, and boy it certainly is!

They are still growing, with the 3 biggest pushing past 10" yesterday! I will be switching to 12/12 tomorrow night!

BTW Canna, finally found 29% H2O2 at the local hydro store and after adding 2 tbsp to my 20 gal res, the res looks fantastic. All the gunk that accumulates at the water level is gone, no floaties, still smells a tiny bit like a fish tank(a clean one mind you, better than my son's fish tank!), but overall the res looks like I just cleaned it yesterday.

Here are 2 pics from this morning, wish I would have taken some last night they looked so much better. Also forgot to set camera to pre-set mode for taking under hps, so sorry for the yellow.

Sweet! Glad that you're about to start flowering Jman. I'm glad you're happy with the H2O2 also.

Just so you know, I recently read a thread called "clone of a clone of a clone". It sounded pretty conclusive that you can continue to take clones indefinately as you are doing with no genetic loss.

Yes. A 1 1/2" RW in your hydroton containers is a sufficient anchor for a good sized plant. The roots will eventually fill all the gaps and hold the hydroton together as 1 mass.