I ordered from JOTI and Vancouver Seed Bank the same day. Their shipping addresses for payment are the same for both places. My payment for both arrived the same day. Vancouver sent my seeds next day. I received them 10 days later. JOTI has sent me emails saying my order shipped 2 times now and over a month later nothing. I just wish they would tell the truth. I ordered from seedsman after joti and already received the seedsmans order. I will just chalk it up as a lose. If I receive my order or a refund I will post it because I believe if the issue is resolved we should update that to. Good luck All. Happy Growing.