Justified?

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
i see you guys getting all pissed off about coming here illegally blah blah blah, its so ridiculous because sure you guys bitch at THEM for coming here


but i dont see anyone bitching at the government? you know the ones whos responsibility it is to uphold these laws?


this is what they WANT, the government wants mexicans to come into the united states, and so do the lobbying corporations


shooting illegals is NOT the right way to go about this.... you guys are pissed off at the wrong people
great points!

hopefully civility will return to this thread, the debate really is interesting. so interesting i have switched sides once already and maybe more. evolving views is much preferrable to being fixed in one way of thinking in my opinion.

now, let's be clear about two things: rocks CAN kill. in this instance, it would be utterly improbable as the officer had a helmet on and likely a kevlar vest. the deceased was only 15 years old and a fair distance away. also, back up BP was literally 12 seconds away...watch the video and count. now despite all this, i feel the shooting was justifiable yet still completely horrific. i would want the officer to be fired dishonorably (no severance, no pension, nothing...canned) because we do not need people who shoot to kill when their lives are not REALLY and TRULY in danger.
 

Fullmoon kid

Active Member
great points!

hopefully civility will return to this thread, the debate really is interesting. so interesting i have switched sides once already and maybe more. evolving views is much preferrable to being fixed in one way of thinking in my opinion.

now, let's be clear about two things: rocks CAN kill. in this instance, it would be utterly improbable as the officer had a helmet on and likely a kevlar vest. the deceased was only 15 years old and a fair distance away. also, back up BP was literally 12 seconds away...watch the video and count. now despite all this, i feel the shooting was justifiable yet still completely horrific. i would want the officer to be fired dishonorably (no severance, no pension, nothing...canned) because we do not need people who shoot to kill when their lives are not REALLY and TRULY in danger.
You feel the shooting was justifiable ...and think the officer should be canned...clear as mud
 

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
clear as mud indeed! lol

what i am saying is that while precedent supported him 'firing in self defense' because some 15 year old was lobbing rocks from 50+ feet away, i don't want anyone so trigger happy entrusted with that kind of authority. it is the delicate balance between not tying the hands of the BP agents, while calling for a higher standard in the people they hire.

i would also like to see them have a gun with rubber bullets for borderline cases like this. at least that is clear enough
 

NoDrama

Well-Known Member
Cant help but notice , surely the lesson here to be learned at Kent state and the many places you cite is Do not screw with armed guards ?
Except half of the people killed at Kent state were just students trying to get to the next class. You see thats what happens when you just unleash full fire into the wide open, innocent people always get killed. How would you feel if your son was mowed down by some nat guardsmans m-16 rifle, just because he was late getting to class?

Maybe thats your kid laying down there? It sure as hell was someones.

ksu-may-4-1970-x-john-paul-filo-valley-daily-news-ap.jpg

Lets try to be a bit more sensitive in the future eh?
 

NoDrama

Well-Known Member
All peace officers are trained to use restraint in the dealings with others. Obviously some people cannot police themselves. Not everyone can be Sheriff Andy Taylor, but the world would probably be a better place if people tried.

How big were the rocks this kid was throwing? I could see if he was right on top of the agent with a brick or something, but a 1/2 ounce rock isnt going to hurt much especially if its thrown by hand. I could see if the kid had a sling and was using lead, but were talking little rocks. Excessive use of force!
 

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
All peace officers are trained to use restraint in the dealings with others. Obviously some people cannot police themselves. Not everyone can be Sheriff Andy Taylor, but the world would probably be a better place if people tried.

How big were the rocks this kid was throwing? I could see if he was right on top of the agent with a brick or something, but a 1/2 ounce rock isnt going to hurt much especially if its thrown by hand. I could see if the kid had a sling and was using lead, but were talking little rocks. Excessive use of force!
from what i read in the comments on this video, they were bricks or similar sized stones. i'm not sure how a 15 year old could lob those with the necessary force to even injure at the distance he was at.

plus, i looked for shadows or rocks landing in that grainy footage and could not find it, just birds. and i never saw one of their arms recoiled in a throwing motion.

but i do speak spanish and the eyewitnesses said 'no mas tirando piedras' and similar shit (only throwing rocks). so likely, there was some rock throwing.
 

doc111

Well-Known Member
clear as mud indeed! lol

what i am saying is that while precedent supported him 'firing in self defense' because some 15 year old was lobbing rocks from 50+ feet away, i don't want anyone so trigger happy entrusted with that kind of authority. it is the delicate balance between not tying the hands of the BP agents, while calling for a higher standard in the people they hire.

i would also like to see them have a gun with rubber bullets for borderline cases like this. at least that is clear enough
The rubber bullets are a good idea except they are usually designed for shotguns. Most cops leave those in their vehicles unless they are expecting trouble. They certainly aren't going to load their service pistols with rubber bullets. Even if they carried a magazine filled with rubber bullets that they could switch to when needed, they would still have to stop, clear the round out of the chamber, pull the magazine out, reload the other mag, and chamber a rubber bullet. Doesn't sound all that difficult, but there are a lot of things that could go wrong in those few seconds. The service pistol is off limits. It's doubtful that any cop is going to carry and/or use rubber bullets with the service pistol. Tazers work well but only have a limited range and they are far from perfect. I think a paintball gun with OC filled balls would be about the best thing they could use in these types of instances. Still, they wouldn't be carrying the paintball guns on their person, they would have to be left in the car. I don't think there is a perfect solution but I do agree that cops should have some better less lethal weaponry. :blsmoke:
 

Fullmoon kid

Active Member
Except half of the people killed at Kent state were just students trying to get to the next class. You see thats what happens when you just unleash full fire into the wide open, innocent people always get killed. How would you feel if your son was mowed down by some nat guardsmans m-16 rifle, just because he was late getting to class?

Maybe thats your kid laying down there? It sure as hell was someones.

View attachment 999405

Lets try to be a bit more sensitive in the future eh?
Lets try to read the thread in future eh ? I didnt cite Kent state , i replied to one of your buddies that did.
 

Fisherman Pete

New Member
Yes, he is justified.

Rocks are considered lethal weapons. The border patrol agent was in a dangerous situation with many hostile people around. If he was knocked unconscious by a rock there is not telling what was going to happen.

And BTW, the kid already had 6 charges of smuggling people across the border so he was no boyscout on a field trip.
lololol. i'd fuckinglove to see you in a bar fight. just pull out an uzi yeah, seems justified if everything else in the room can be classed as lethal no?

fucking pricks, they should be shot at the steak
 

NoDrama

Well-Known Member
Lets try to read the thread in future eh ? I didnt cite Kent state , i replied to one of your buddies that did.
No, no you didn't. You blamed the kids at Kent state for their actions. How is walking across the street considered screwing with armed guards? Should the police shoot you when you cross the street and then call it justified?
 

Fullmoon kid

Active Member
and who are you to establish who is equal and who is not?

i can think of many different occasions in which americans threw rocks at guards and were shot

kent state was already mentioned



are they not equal to?


BP should not have been a pussy and just let it go

but instead he felt the need to prove his manhood and shoot some one down when there was no real threat to his life


how fucking hard would it have been to, i dont know, MOVE
No, no you didn't. You blamed the kids at Kent state for their actions. How is walking across the street considered screwing with armed guards? Should the police shoot you when you cross the street and then call it justified?
I didnt realise you dont read English.
 

doc111

Well-Known Member
All peace officers are trained to use restraint in the dealings with others. Obviously some people cannot police themselves. Not everyone can be Sheriff Andy Taylor, but the world would probably be a better place if people tried.

How big were the rocks this kid was throwing? I could see if he was right on top of the agent with a brick or something, but a 1/2 ounce rock isnt going to hurt much especially if its thrown by hand. I could see if the kid had a sling and was using lead, but were talking little rocks. Excessive use of force!
Yes they are supposed to use restraint but we're finding out more and more that the police have a strong tendency to abuse their power at some point. Cop goes to work, his wife just left him, he can't afford his mortgage anymore and he's 3 months behind on his car payment. That's a bad day about to get a whole lot worse! Look at the types of people who USUALLY become cops. IME they are usually bullies or little guys with a short man complex. Tiny dicks make big pricks! Most of the guys I went to school with who became cops were assholes in high school. They were bullies or were bullied themselves. Why would someone want to be a cop in the first place? Most people hate them. They don't make a whole lot of money. Cops have a higher rate of divorce, alcoholism, drug abuse, and they are more likely to be killed on the job than most. Why would someone want to do that? To protect and serve? Perhaps, but I think it all boils down to a power thing. You couldn't pay me enough to be a cop!:fire:
 

fdd2blk

Well-Known Member
i like how nobody cares about what the kid should NOT have done. it's all on the cop, eh?

:roll:

where were that kids parents? what kind of children are they raising? these are the people we want living among us?
 

Fullmoon kid

Active Member
i like how nobody cares about what the kid should NOT have done. it's all on the cop, eh?

:roll:

where were that kids parents? what kind of children are they raising? these are the people we want living among us?
On the contrary i think , there have been those who voiced opinion along the lines of dont take rocks to a gun fight.Personally , on reflection , at age 15 i cant say throwing rocks at armed guards was top of my list in pastimes.
 

fdd2blk

Well-Known Member
On the contrary i think , there have been those who voiced opinion along the lines of dont take rocks to a gun fight.Personally , on reflection , at age 15 i cant say throwing rocks at armed guards was top of my list in pastimes.

the kid is 15, he shouldn't be at a fight period. my kid is 15 and is in his room playing right now. who lets there kids go to rock fights? where is this kids dad? probably picking strawberries in ventura county.
 

Fullmoon kid

Active Member
the kid is 15, he shouldn't be at a fight period. my kid is 15 and is in his room playing right now. who lets there kids go to rock fights? where is this kids dad? probably picking strawberries in ventura county.
Heres the thing , on every post the "kid" is emphasised , i was in my first job at 15 having left school that year.Different countries,different enviroments,different cultures and that holds true the world over.Not every 15 year old is a kid , far from it.
 
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