email468
Well-Known Member
a self-fulfilling prophecy ... interesting!
Karma, Karma, Karma, Konfusion
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Chiceh
Global Mod, Stoner Chic
Good questions email, I have wondered this myself too. I found this interesting to read. 
Basic Buddhism: The Theory of Karma
One part in particular:
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The Pali term Karma literally means action or doing. Any kind of intentional action whether mental, verbal, or physical, is regarded as Karma. It covers all that is included in the phrase "thought, word and deed". Generally speaking, all good and bad action constitutes Karma. In its ultimate sense Karma means all moral and immoral volition. Involuntary, unintentional or unconscious actions, though technically deeds, do not constitute Karma, because volition, the most important factor in determining Karma, is absent. [/FONT]
Basic Buddhism: The Theory of Karma
One part in particular:
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The Pali term Karma literally means action or doing. Any kind of intentional action whether mental, verbal, or physical, is regarded as Karma. It covers all that is included in the phrase "thought, word and deed". Generally speaking, all good and bad action constitutes Karma. In its ultimate sense Karma means all moral and immoral volition. Involuntary, unintentional or unconscious actions, though technically deeds, do not constitute Karma, because volition, the most important factor in determining Karma, is absent. [/FONT]
email468
Well-Known Member
Thanks Chiceh for the comment and the link!Good questions email, I have wondered this myself too. I found this interesting to read.
Basic Buddhism: The Theory of Karma
Chiceh
Global Mod, Stoner Chic
email468
Well-Known Member
If my stoned comprehensive skills are working - Karma has squat to do with justice and just desserts.You are welcome. I added to the post, a part I thought may answer your question.
undertheice
Well-Known Member
though i'm not really a very "spiritual" person, i do have a basic belief in a sort of karma. what i've noticed is that those who do evil tend to create around themselves an atmosphere where evil breeds more easily. with more evil happening around them, more evil is bound to happen to them. it seems the reverse is also true.
of course, it isn't an exact science. if it were i might tend to believe there were some intelligence behind the whole thing, but life often seems to be a crap shoot. good and bad happens to us all, but if you create a positive atmosphere around yourself good things do seem to happen with more regularity.
there is also the matter of accepting the bad with some grace and finding the good hidden within it. by accepting responsibility for all that happens to you instead of finding some other source to blame, you can keep from perpetuating the cycle of blame that always leads to just more of the same.
email468
Well-Known Member
thank you for posting. sounds like you too enjoy searching for rational explanations.
CanadianCoyote
Well-Known Member
I'm both a believer and a skeptic when it comes to karma. People use the word 'karma' too often if you ask me. Simply put - bad things happen to good people and good things happen to bad people all the time. However, giving to someone else or doing something completely selfless can pay off big. People remember your kindness and are more likely to help you out.
My karma story is a beautiful one! ^^;
When the Baseball All-Star game was in Detroit a few years back, my whole family volunteered at what's called 'All-Star Fanfest', it's basically a kickass show put on by MLB that features awesome exhibits, former and current players, merchandise (of course), panels and even rides. We were dirt, DIRT poor at the time; we could barely pay for the parking near where Fanfest was held. We were eating bologna and chicken every day.
Now, I was on my last pack of GOOD cigarettes. After they were gone, I'd have to smoke Smoker's Choice, disgusting cigarillos that cost $0.99 a pack but are harsh, taste awful and smell worse. I was glad to have them, as they do the job to get rid of nicotine cravings. I had just opened my pack Marlboro Menthols and was standing out front of Cobo Hall when I noticed a homeless man picking through the ashtrays looking for partially smoked butts. I thought "Man, he has less than I do..." ... and I approached him and handed him my entire pack of cigarettes (I took one out for later, though). He was so happy that he almost started crying. "God will BLESS you young lady! God will BLESS you!"
After six more hours of thankless labor, we headed home to watch the game on TV. When we got home, the phone was ringing. My dad picked it up and ... we'd won two tickets to the game. At the volunteer training session, we were told that two of the over 1500 volunteers would be winning tickets. We didn't pay much attention, as we never win anything. But suddenly ... after all our hard work, even though we were poor, we were GOING to the game. My mother said my father and I should go ... and we did. We went to pick up our tickets, and we were also given $100 to buy souveniers and food. 20 of that 100 went to two packs of cigarettes each for my father and I.
Even if was just coincedence, I really do think that my completely selfless act of giving someone who had almost nothing SOMETHING made a difference.
My karma story is a beautiful one! ^^;
When the Baseball All-Star game was in Detroit a few years back, my whole family volunteered at what's called 'All-Star Fanfest', it's basically a kickass show put on by MLB that features awesome exhibits, former and current players, merchandise (of course), panels and even rides. We were dirt, DIRT poor at the time; we could barely pay for the parking near where Fanfest was held. We were eating bologna and chicken every day.
Now, I was on my last pack of GOOD cigarettes. After they were gone, I'd have to smoke Smoker's Choice, disgusting cigarillos that cost $0.99 a pack but are harsh, taste awful and smell worse. I was glad to have them, as they do the job to get rid of nicotine cravings. I had just opened my pack Marlboro Menthols and was standing out front of Cobo Hall when I noticed a homeless man picking through the ashtrays looking for partially smoked butts. I thought "Man, he has less than I do..." ... and I approached him and handed him my entire pack of cigarettes (I took one out for later, though). He was so happy that he almost started crying. "God will BLESS you young lady! God will BLESS you!"
After six more hours of thankless labor, we headed home to watch the game on TV. When we got home, the phone was ringing. My dad picked it up and ... we'd won two tickets to the game. At the volunteer training session, we were told that two of the over 1500 volunteers would be winning tickets. We didn't pay much attention, as we never win anything. But suddenly ... after all our hard work, even though we were poor, we were GOING to the game. My mother said my father and I should go ... and we did. We went to pick up our tickets, and we were also given $100 to buy souveniers and food. 20 of that 100 went to two packs of cigarettes each for my father and I.
Even if was just coincedence, I really do think that my completely selfless act of giving someone who had almost nothing SOMETHING made a difference.
email468
Well-Known Member
Thanks for posting and sharing your thoughts and story.
HotNSexyMILF
Well-Known Member
From my personal understanding and beliefs- karma is a natural unavoidable law. For every up, there is a down. For every action, a reaction. However- I think the piece you are missing is this, the idea of reincarnation. For me anyhow, this was the missing piece for a long time. We are not living the karma from this life- we are living the karma of previous experiences. This can be used to explain why some people are born into "negative" situations, why horrible things happen to people who seemed to not deserve it. The catch 22 of this, is that our reactions to our karmic punishment is the very thing keeping the circle of karma and lives going. Instead, we should take our karma with a smile- for we are laying the map for the experiences we will have in our next lifetime. The experience of karma itself is a blessing- for it shows that the forces of karma (or gods depending on your beliefs) find you a soul worth helping. The experience of karma itself is a learning lesson, one which we should be happy to experience. It is only after our karmic debts are paid that we can be relinquished from the experience of continual birth and death and be returned to the All..
email468
Well-Known Member
Hey MILF - long time no see.From my personal understanding and beliefs- karma is a natural unavoidable law. For every up, there is a down. For every action, a reaction. However- I think the piece you are missing is this, the idea of reincarnation. For me anyhow, this was the missing piece for a long time. We are not living the karma from this life- we are living the karma of previous experiences. This can be used to explain why some people are born into "negative" situations, why horrible things happen to people who seemed to not deserve it. The catch 22 of this, is that our reactions to our karmic punishment is the very thing keeping the circle of karma and lives going. Instead, we should take our karma with a smile- for we are laying the map for the experiences we will have in our next lifetime. The experience of karma itself is a blessing- for it shows that the forces of karma (or gods depending on your beliefs) find you a soul worth helping. The experience of karma itself is a learning lesson, one which we should be happy to experience. It is only after our karmic debts are paid that we can be relinquished from the experience of continual birth and death and be returned to the All..
Thank you for sharing your personal insight into karma and your beliefs regarding that system.
HotNSexyMILF
Well-Known Member
Hey email, I've been around- focus has just been on other things as of late.
Hope you find the personal revelations you seek.. though, I believe you would find the answers by looking for them inside yourself.
email468
Well-Known Member
to be honest, i was mostly curious and wondering how people justified a belief in Karma knowing that the victim in every murder,rape, robbery, etc... somehow "deserved" it. Your understanding is the victim was bad in a past life and how they react to being victimized can contribute to their current karma. To be clear, I appreciate you sharing your convictions and am not demeaning them in any way.
It does remind me of Judeo-Christian reasoning for why bad things happen to good people - the old original sin argument. In one or another - they deserved it.
If you are curious as to my own beliefs - my personal revelations come in a natural, evidence-based format
HotNSexyMILF
Well-Known Member
I know you weren't trying to demean me.to be honest, i was mostly curious and wondering how people justified a belief in Karma knowing that the victim in every murder,rape, robbery, etc... somehow "deserved" it. Your understanding is the victim was bad in a past life and how they react to being victimized can contribute to their current karma. To be clear, I appreciate you sharing your convictions and am not demeaning them in any way.
It does remind me of Judeo-Christian reasoning for why bad things happen to good people - the old original sin argument. In one or another - they deserved it.
If you are curious as to my own beliefs - my personal revelations come in a natural, evidence-based format
The whole idea of karma itself is what goes around comes around- so naturally someone believing in karma will believe it was just, regardless of the particular 'victim'. Yet also, the view of how karma works varies- does karma just work off your physical actions? Even if you think so, physical actions are just the manifestations of thought. (Neurons transferring info for all the science folk) So therefore, all action is simply thought. Now, does anyone truly know the thoughts of another? If you cannot say for certain, then you simply do not know. So while karma and the such cannot be completely proven by science and such at this time- it certainly cannot be proven wrong either.
Wouldn't compare my beliefs to the Judeo-Christian concept of sin, though I could see how you might have thought that. The concept of 'sin' is created by the brain. The brain is not I, though it is mine to use. The concept of a sin is created by the brain, in it's attempt to decode what it is experiencing. The brain likes to label everything so it can file it away. In Judeo-Christian beliefs, one commits a sin, the brain categorizes it as a sin, then the person inflicts themselves with guilt and pain because of how it is perceived. At this point, not only will they reap karma from the 'sin', but they will reap the karma from the self inflicted guilt and pain. I think most of us have experienced the effect from a negative person coming into the room, how could self affliction of that be good at all? The idea of 'asking for forgiveness' as well just carries on the emotional destructive thoughts. I think it is much more beneficial to just accept how things are, accept the repercussions, and actively seek to avoid falling into the same holes.
I have a lot of respect for you email- the path which you choose to achieve wisdom is your own. Your morality and good nature have us on the same side anyways- doesn't matter the method personally preferred.
Study the laws of nature, apply them to your life.
email468
Well-Known Member
I think you for the kind words and glad you do not take my "thinking out loud" personally.I know you weren't trying to demean me.
The whole idea of karma itself is what goes around comes around- so naturally someone believing in karma will believe it was just, regardless of the particular 'victim'. Yet also, the view of how karma works varies- does karma just work off your physical actions? Even if you think so, physical actions are just the manifestations of thought. (Neurons transferring info for all the science folk) So therefore, all action is simply thought. Now, does anyone truly know the thoughts of another? If you cannot say for certain, then you simply do not know. So while karma and the such cannot be completely proven by science and such at this time- it certainly cannot be proven wrong either.
Wouldn't compare my beliefs to the Judeo-Christian concept of sin, though I could see how you might have thought that. The concept of 'sin' is created by the brain. The brain is not I, though it is mine to use. The concept of a sin is created by the brain, in it's attempt to decode what it is experiencing. The brain likes to label everything so it can file it away. In Judeo-Christian beliefs, one commits a sin, the brain categorizes it as a sin, then the person inflicts themselves with guilt and pain because of how it is perceived. At this point, not only will they reap karma from the 'sin', but they will reap the karma from the self inflicted guilt and pain. I think most of us have experienced the effect from a negative person coming into the room, how could self affliction of that be good at all? The idea of 'asking for forgiveness' as well just carries on the emotional destructive thoughts. I think it is much more beneficial to just accept how things are, accept the repercussions, and actively seek to avoid falling into the same holes.
I have a lot of respect for you email- the path which you choose to achieve wisdom is your own. Your morality and good nature have us on the same side anyways- doesn't matter the method personally preferred.
Study the laws of nature, apply them to your life.
i was comparing the need to justify bad things happening to good people (and vice versa) in any belief system. Being a materialist (the philosophical kind - not consumerist), i look for natural explanations and nature does not care if you are good or bad - hell nature doesn't even know what those concepts are - stuff just happens - no need to justify it at all. The lion isn't bad for eating the antelope and the antelope didn't have bad karma and deserved to be eating. The lion was hungry, the antelope was too slow or not wary enough.
So my current belief would say -there is no sin, no cosmic justice, no reason at all. It just is...
HotNSexyMILF
Well-Known Member
Yet remember, the lion dies. The lions body becomes one with the earth. From where the food for the antelope grows from.
I agree, nature takes no account for good or bad- it is unbiased. We are the ones who judge it to try and understand it, calling it good and bad.
I appreciate you rambling as you are tolerating mine as well.
email468
Well-Known Member
excellent point about the lion - of course the same holds true for us. For all he got wrong, i think Nietzsche sure had the whole "beyond good and evil" thing dead on.Yet remember, the lion dies. The lions body becomes one with the earth. From where the food for the antelope grows from.
I agree, nature takes no account for good or bad- it is unbiased. We are the ones who judge it to try and understand it, calling it good and bad.
I appreciate you rambling as you are tolerating mine as well.
I think we humans may feel a need for some kind of cosmic justice - whether it be karmic or a divine judge. And hence - every culture comes up with their own version of it.
HotNSexyMILF
Well-Known Member
Or maybe every culture tries to explain it because is just a given natural truth. Most cultures and religions share a set of deep common wisdom, though expressed and viewed differently.
Two sides of the coin.. but remember, we're on the same coin.
email468
Well-Known Member
I understand what you're saying but religion got nearly everything else wrong (unless you do some fanciful interpretations) i am dubious they got this right!Or maybe every culture tries to explain it because is just a given natural truth. Most cultures and religions share a set of deep common wisdom, though expressed and viewed differently.
Two sides of the coin.. but remember, we're on the same coin.
taknitEZ95
Well-Known Member
I think we live in the real world. People steal and get richer. People kill and get away with it. People lie and make there lives easier. But to say that bad things happen because people did bad things seems (to me) kind of ridiculous. I know wonderful people (nearly saints) who have lead very VERY shitty lives. And I know people who have done very bad things who lead great lives because of those things. Obviously no one can just rule out that karma does not exist...but my life experiences have shown me know evidence that karma does exist. (just my 2 cents though).