Led grow lights newbie

The top of line system doesn't happen by accident, that's for sure. I'm using all granulars that I bought in bulk, same with the peat moss and rice hulls, and I got my big bag of compost from a local guy here on the cheap. I have my own vemicompost system for my AACT. The LED I built and will continue outfitting my room with will cost around 1k per 5x5, give or take a little bit. That's me building it myself out of CREE COB LED, not buying a pre-made panel. If you're referring to pre-made LED, you're right on not seeing a huge savings in certain areas, lights like the KIND are not even as efficient as a brand new HPS Bulb (35%). Now, these new chips can be up to 65% efficient. That's 30% less energy dissipated to heat. So, yes, there will still be a signature, but 30% less is a real, achievable thing.

What really made me a believer in LED was a little problem that we had at one of the gardens I help out in. His AC went down for a couple of days during a heatwave, mid-peak flower. He was still in the process of converting to 100% LED, he probably had about 4 1K's still burning. Everything under the HPS was weakened noticeably, final product on those under HPS was lacking. LED buds that had the same everything bounced back and showed no signs of the stress.

To me, HPS is like using a sledgehammer. It get's the job done, no one will argue that. It's brute force.

By the way, when I talk LED, I'm referring to full spectrum CREE white light, not mono panels that make blurple light.

You can match PPFD numbers to a 1k HPS with CXB3590s at about 6-700watts, depending on how hard you drive it. Then you're going to get 30% less energy dissipated to heat as well, along with way more usable light directed at the canopy and not lost to photon scatter in the reflector and out the sides.

But I'm all for vertical HPS in terms of efficiency as well. That makes a lot of sense as well.

It seems that we all agree. LED can be awesome, but the cost of startup is high and most people end up believing the hype and purchasing crap LED's thinking that they are getting a good light.

Right now LED is evolving so rapidly that a light you buy today may be irrelevant in 6 months. It's exciting to watch the technology develop though. . If we watch Area 51, a well respected manufacturer, they have phased out panels and gone to COB's.

The one thing to take away from this conversation is that the grower should not buy cheap LED panels.

Couldn't have said it any better.

My sentiments exactly. If you're building your own and have the knowledge to do it well then you'll do well. Can't wait for the tech to speed up!

Hey Roy, if you're in Michigan and want a lamp built, I'll do it if you wanna buy the parts and kick me some meds for the time I have formal electronics training and my COB LED is running great right now.

Rasta Roy said:

My sentiments exactly. If you're building your own and have the knowledge to do it well then you'll do well. Can't wait for the tech to speed up!

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HockeyBeard said:

Hey Roy, if you're in Michigan and want a lamp built, I'll do it if you wanna buy the parts and kick me some meds for the time I have formal electronics training and my COB LED is running great right now.

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That's a pretty tempting offer sir. How many can you put together at once? Can you give me an idea of where to get parts so I don't end up buying crap ones on accident?

Rasta Roy said:

That's a pretty tempting offer sir. How many can you put together at once? Can you give me an idea of where to get parts so I don't end up buying crap ones on accident?

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I can put together as many as you can source. After I built the first bar, the second one was an absolute breeze. They're really not all that difficult, it's just knowing where to source the parts and what to use. Once the parts are in, I could have them built in a day or two, depending on the design you wanted. The fence post setup is pretty easy and keeps everything clean and modular, but I can also build a single unit to cover a 4x4/5x5 as well, it's just a bit bulky.

As far as sourcing the parts, I can give you a list of all the places that I sourced from last run, and I found an awesome source of heat sinks on the cheap cheap right here in Dearborn so I can get them without shipping. Like, 3 bucks a sink/fan. Probably not as quiet as my Rosewill Z3s, but for 10$ less per sink, it's not the worst thing ever. And, the entire surface is flat, should be able to tap and use with holders/lenses. Otherwise, I've seen someone on here, the person responsible for sharing an unreal amount of knowledge with this community, use tiny magnets to hold the lens holder to the sinks.

Remember - when it comes to buying something pre-made, you're paying a large portion of the actual cost in the assembly and labor. That $500 panel? Probably no more than $100-150 in parts. You're not going to get anything quality in $100-150 in parts. You want the most efficient drivers and chips to get the most out of LED, and that doesn't come at those price points. If you go to the DIY threads, you can see some of the spreadsheets and efficiency numbers that are being posted.

Rasta Roy said:

T5's and CFL work great for clones and that's it. LED lights are garbage no matter how much money you spend they are not worth it. A 600 watt hps or 1000 watt is what you need to use. Anything else you might well just buy your medicine from someone. Set up the ventilation in your tent and your Temps won't get so high.

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I will disagree.

T5ho will flower. I got a grow going and aiming for one pound out of a 432 watt setup.

whitebb2727 said:

I will disagree.

T5ho will flower. I got a grow going and aiming for one pound out of a 432 watt setup.

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Sure will, well with a 75/25 red blue split. Almost any light can flower and produce decent bud, down to the UFO LED thingies. I'm not comparing what you're going to do to that, you'll definitely do better. If you think that's going to be a lb, then I'm looking at 2 in my room, and I think that's pushing it. I'm realistically hoping to pull in 1.5 and that's 6 plants in 10Gal pots, using about 750W of LED. Not saying you won't get there, just saying I'd be surprised if you pulled over a 3/4, which is still pretty respectable, almost an oz per gallon of soil.

HockeyBeard said:

Sure will, well with a 75/25 red blue split. Almost any light can flower and produce decent bud, down to the UFO LED thingies. I'm not comparing what you're going to do to that, you'll definitely do better. If you think that's going to be a lb, then I'm looking at 2 in my room, and I think that's pushing it. I'm realistically hoping to pull in 1.5 and that's 6 plants in 10Gal pots, using about 750W of LED. Not saying you won't get there, just saying I'd be surprised if you pulled over a 3/4, which is still pretty respectable, almost an oz per gallon of soil.

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50/50 split with mine.

Actually straight blue flowers good.

Take the perceived notions and status quo and throw it out the window.

I believe very little of what I read on cannabis forums.

The pound I'm aiming for is two plants in 15 gallons of soil. Three month veg. How much you pull with a light is relative to veg time, strain, and training techniques.

Fair enough. If you've got 5+ months in two plants, I really hope, for your sake, you hit those numbers.

I'm not taking any preconceived notions, I'm applying my knowledge of what spectrum and wavelengths get used in photosynthesis in flower and veg stages. It's not a status quo, it's a scientific observation. Sure, you can flower under a 6500K MH, but it's not going to be as good as a 2000K HPS because it doesn't hit as much red, which is used more in bloom. I'm not saying it's not good, I'm saying it can be better.

But above all, I agree that it is mostly strain and training that will dictate what you pull. My girls in my thread (in sig) had 6 weeks of veg out of the solo cup.

whitebb2727 said:

I will disagree.

T5ho will flower. I got a grow going and aiming for one pound out of a 432 watt setup.

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Are you running Co2?

HockeyBeard said:

I can put together as many as you can source. After I built the first bar, the second one was an absolute breeze. They're really not all that difficult, it's just knowing where to source the parts and what to use. Once the parts are in, I could have them built in a day or two, depending on the design you wanted. The fence post setup is pretty easy and keeps everything clean and modular, but I can also build a single unit to cover a 4x4/5x5 as well, it's just a bit bulky.

As far as sourcing the parts, I can give you a list of all the places that I sourced from last run, and I found an awesome source of heat sinks on the cheap cheap right here in Dearborn so I can get them without shipping. Like, 3 bucks a sink/fan. Probably not as quiet as my Rosewill Z3s, but for 10$ less per sink, it's not the worst thing ever. And, the entire surface is flat, should be able to tap and use with holders/lenses. Otherwise, I've seen someone on here, the person responsible for sharing an unreal amount of knowledge with this community, use tiny magnets to hold the lens holder to the sinks.

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Hit me up with the list of parts I need and where you got them from. I got a friend that would probably want some as well. Definitely prefer whatever design is the least bulkiest! I'll hit you with a message when I've got the parts together and am ready to do business! Thanks man, I had a buddy that built some leds I tested out for him but the fans he used kept burning out after a few months. Definitely would like to experiment with some quality led light rigs!

whitebb2727 said:

50/50 split with mine.

Actually straight blue flowers good.

Take the perceived notions and status quo and throw it out the window.

I believe very little of what I read on cannabis forums.

The pound I'm aiming for is two plants in 15 gallons of soil. Three month veg. How much you pull with a light is relative to veg time, strain, and training techniques.

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I used to be able to pull 8-10oz a plant out of 20 gallon tubs of soil when I would veg for just over two months. I would do three tubs per 1000w hps all bushed out with a mix of lst, topping, and super cropping. Unless of course it was one of my quality sativa strains, they would always yield a few ounces less but the smoke was worth it.

You should be able to hit your goal with your 15 gallons of soil and your veg time. Especially if you're running a heavy indica. You're 100 percent on the money though, strain, technique, and a good veg period are key for a good yield. Co2 is big too!

Rasta Roy said:

Are you running Co2?

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No. I'm thinking of going dig cob. Well I've already made the decision. When I do I will go sealed with co2.

Rasta Roy said:

Hit me up with the list of parts I need and where you got them from. I got a friend that would probably want some as well. Definitely prefer whatever design is the least bulkiest! I'll hit you with a message when I've got the parts together and am ready to do business! Thanks man, I had a buddy that built some leds I tested out for him but the fans he used kept burning out after a few months. Definitely would like to experiment with some quality led light rigs!

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There's definitely an advantage to using quality heatsink/fan combos like what I have in my current build. Those fans are meant to run on variable, for hours and hours on end inside of a PC. So are the these other ones, but the price just makes me wonder where they skimped. Or, if that's just the cost they're able to provide with their business model. I mean, obviously the fan is going to be a bit better and quieter on a higher end combo, but they should both be able to handle 12+ hours of continuous operation a day for multiple years.

The least bulkiest would probably be bars, imo, but you'd still want 3 in a 4x4 or 4 in a 5x5. I prefer to do the one heatsink/fan per COB, where as many of the people on here like to use one big piece of heatsink material and run it with passive cooling. It's essentially the same size, but a fraction of the weight. If you're ok with not the most "retail" looking fixture, I'm of solid belief that these vinyl fence rails are a decent way to go. It keeps all the wires neat, material cost is low, and I've already got my design and parts lists worked out for it. These COBs are just so bright! And any HPS grower would look at the light and take notice. It's not the LED everyone thinks about. In this podcast, they refer to it as an LES (light emitting surface) and I'd be more inclined to adopt that to help with confusion of people linking these to the first waves of LED to hit the market that basically took everyone's money.

HockeyBeard said:

There's definitely an advantage to using quality heatsink/fan combos like what I have in my current build. Those fans are meant to run on variable, for hours and hours on end inside of a PC. So are the these other ones, but the price just makes me wonder where they skimped. Or, if that's just the cost they're able to provide with their business model. I mean, obviously the fan is going to be a bit better and quieter on a higher end combo, but they should both be able to handle 12+ hours of continuous operation a day for multiple years.

The least bulkiest would probably be bars, imo, but you'd still want 3 in a 4x4 or 4 in a 5x5. I prefer to do the one heatsink/fan per COB, where as many of the people on here like to use one big piece of heatsink material and run it with passive cooling. It's essentially the same size, but a fraction of the weight. If you're ok with not the most "retail" looking fixture, I'm of solid belief that these vinyl fence rails are a decent way to go. It keeps all the wires neat, material cost is low, and I've already got my design and parts lists worked out for it. These COBs are just so bright! And any HPS grower would look at the light and take notice. It's not the LED everyone thinks about. In this podcast, they refer to it as an LES (light emitting surface) and I'd be more inclined to adopt that to help with confusion of people linking these to the first waves of LED to hit the market that basically took everyone's money.

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Yeah I don't need it to look like a retail model light or anything, functionality is all I care about. If you already get a design together and it's something you would trust to use in your personal garden then that's the design I would want to go with.

whitebb2727 said:

No. I'm thinking of going dig cob. Well I've already made the decision. When I do I will go sealed with co2.

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Co2 will guarantee your yields for sure. You might even be able to reduce your veg time.