REALSTYLES
Well-Known Member
Well why did you did you say you had to upgrade from China led's to American made led's? I have move on to making my own lights and they are made in China. I can't help that you are a person who likes to get lied too.
LED Noobs, STOP Buying China Junk
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mc130p
Well-Known Member
i did not say i upgraded to american made leds. you added that yourself.
California Lightworks has a reputation for being overpriced like the rebranded chinese imports (Kind, Lush, HydroGrowLED, BlackDog, GrowBlu) who use epi-whatever diodes but charge like they're using efficient diodes. Recently they began saying they use Osram diodes. That's a big step up in credibility.
CLW doesn't disclose their spectrum ratio, saying competitors would "kill" for it. If a competitor wanted their spectrum that badly they could simply buy a light and examine it. You can count the distinct colors after shading the light. All they're really doing is selling a "secret sauce." Some quality that can't be described objectively to justify the "edge" you're supposedly buying.
Their PDF product brochure uses "adjusted PAR" as a footnote. A gimmicky way to make their numbers look better.
Many reports of their lights turning off. Also reports of their lights running hot. The turning off is suspected to be a thermocoupler protecting the lights when they get too hot.
You could do better for the money. Area 51, Advanced LED.
I think Chinese panels (epi-whatever diodes) do ok. I have three. But, they run noticeably hotter than the Cree panels I have. Think about it: if epi-whatevers produce 80 lumens per watt, and the Crees produce 110 lumens per watt, and you run two lights using the same watts.... where's those extra watts going if they're not being converted to lumens? (it's going to heat).
I have 3 and 5 watt panels. The 5w Crees run cooler than the 3w epi-whatevers. It's said 5w produce more penetration. But, I think it's the proverbial "robbing peter to pay paul." You can have a single powerful light source. But, because of it's power, you need more distance to the canopy. More distance means the "inverse square law" reduces the intensity by the time it reaches the plant. I.e., IMO there's little difference between a hundred 1w bulbs surrounding (bathing) a plant for 100% coverage, or a single 100w point penetrating. (I try to get a little of both.).
I find my Chinese epi-whatever panels do well with shorter plants. Especially well in a 4' tall tent where penetration isn't as necessary. There's also not a lot of choices for higher-efficiency panels for such a space where you may need to keep the light 4" from the canopy.
Why do you keep stirring the pot like this? You know that the asserted difference is manufacturing quality, standards of performance, etc. Nike shoes are made in China. That doesn't mean they're equivalent to some no-name brand found at Walmart hanging on the end cap for $8.
Cree has a factory in the US, and factories in China which are managed by Cree employees to Cree's standards. In contrast, Chinese panel makers buy Epi-whatever dies which may have begun their life with high standards, and then encapsulate them to unknown standards.
Saying "everything comes from China" is a distinction without a point. If it were truly that simple, why was it reported China will implement rules on its LED industry to reverse the bad reputation it has earned?
GlockGuy50
Active Member
I'm interested in the difference between cree and what you are calling epi-whatever. (Epistar?) I am new to the led market my Apollo's run the epistar. Would a fixture running cree leds perform better? Has anyone done a side by side comparison grow or is this just your opinion? I would like to buy more leds in the very near future to power a 10×5 tent and I'm wondering if you get more performance out of cree.
Greengenes707
Well-Known Member
China made lights are shit...stop trying to change the term. China light refers to a Shenzhen made/designed/assemble light...such as evergrow, cidly, lgLED, bysen...how do thsoe sound??? As well as some others...but that is what it means where you like it or not. You need to get used to it. And in the end we have never said that china won't grow...only that they are very proned to failure...and even if they don't you could be getting better results form an quality light...which you have jumped on...so what is your deal???
Please find a china light that performs like a top bin cree or bridgelux. This is where you say..."but crees are made in china".... So find me a light using the top performing bins form cree...hell even the lowest bins of the top chips...go ahead...I'll wait???
Edit:
If I can find the light online under a different name...99% it will be deemed a china unit. The factories I listed in shenzhen do 97% of the lights on the market...and it is those 97% of lights are giving great leds(the 3%) a bad name.
It's hard to define "better." Some prefer lower initial costs. Some prefer lower long-term costs. If better is just lumens per watt, you can do better than the inexpensive epi-whatever lights.
For shorter plants (scrogging?) inexpensive lights can work well. If you're in a hot climate, cree lightbulbs would be better.
For taller spaces, it seems like it's well accepted that the choice is between high efficiency LED (Area 51, Apache, Onyx, maybe Advanced LED) or ceramic metal halide. You'll get more light, less heat than the amount of epi-whatever lighting you'd need for penetration/coverage. (CMH would be the choice in short spaces too except usually there isn't the vertical room for CMH. Inexpensive epi-whatver works ok in that condition. I've gotten 1g/w with my Blackstar UFO.).
As far as your 10x5 tent, you'd have to weigh the initial cost of Area 51 versus your electricity costs, how long it would cost to pay back. CMH might be a better choice.
GlockGuy50
Active Member
Thank you az200. I appreciate your non bias informative posts. I do scrog so I guess I didn't go wrong with my purchase.
You could definitely do worse. You could have fallen for the marketing hype of rebranded Chinese imports (like Kind, Lush, HydroGrowLED, GrowBlu, Blackdog). Those are essentially the same as your light, but sold at 3x the price with a lot of "secret sauce" hype.
That's where people get hustled. A cheap Chinese light merely boils down to "you get what you pay for." But the category of light I mentioned above is like paying full sticker for a new car (and then finding out it's a used car). They'll grow ok, but you'd be paying the price (or more) of an efficient light while getting a disposable chinese import.
There's a lot of snake oil (predation) in the LED market. If you're going to err in any way, erring on cheap limits the risk. When you start looking at expensive lights, be *very* careful. Expect details about the diodes they use, the spectrum, etc. If they won't publish those details it's probably because they don't have anything special to justify the price they're asking.
AquariusPanta
Well-Known Member
REALSTYLES
Well-Known Member
Ok I'm a troll with mental issues. What's up with the name calling. Not once did I call you any names. Did you know if I had any issues explain this
Imagine this as a whole unit it would be a 1300 watt light true watts and it's Cree's new Top Bin from china and the drivers are from Taiwan. I can't help it if you guys can't figure out where I'm coming from. Only a few on here understands me.
Greengenes707
Well-Known Member
Was it assembled and built in china??? Can it be purchased as a unit??
Or is that where the native americans come in???
GlockGuy50
Active Member
What are those costing you? They look sweet!
REALSTYLES
Well-Known Member
$100 ea for heat sinks =$300. 24 Cree CXA3590-35F-CB-R0H-00002 $40.16 ea delivered from China. I've purchased from Digikey $63 for the 5000K and $53 for the 3000K plus extra for shipping and sales tax. It's on Alibaba.com and the supplier's name is Kingbrite.
mc130p
Well-Known Member
So, why didn't you go with this type of COB instead of the CREE?
http://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/30W-40W-50W-60W-70W-80W_819845259.html
100W COB for 20 bucks!
dandyrandy
Well-Known Member
I have a $220 400w rated 180w actual 64x3 full spectrum dual cob from fleabay. The 300w old style mars vegges better. Haven't tried it on bloom yet. I'm with Styles. I ordered 2 vero 29 3000k cobs and 1 vero 29 5000k with dimmable drivers, and reflectors.
REALSTYLES
Well-Known Member
Because I'm trying to make lights better than American made lies and telling people the truth of what they are getting. I can make my own lights now. I guess I can say American made now right. Btw I'm 6.25% Native American from my Moms side or do I call them Zulu lights because I'm black as well lol.So, why didn't you go with this type of COB instead of the CREE?
http://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/30W-40W-50W-60W-70W-80W_819845259.html
100W COB for 20 bucks!
mc130p
Well-Known Member
what's better about them?
REALSTYLES
Well-Known Member
The people will know the parts are from China and assembled in the USA not a Big Mac Billboard. I'm gonna just move on with pics.
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