LED Without LEDs -My First T5 Grow

Lol yeah dude, seriously I guess I am dumb then cuz I don't think its all about getting massive amounts of lumens onto the plants, if I subscribed to that theory I would have stuck to HID only...

I dont think of the "PAR technique" as using red/blue only, I take it to mean an optimized spectrum customized by the user instead of just pointing an HID light blaster at them and force feeding them with a less then perfect spectrum.

I see others picked up on what originally got my attention also, no one likes to be "told"things then called a fool, you could have a fuckin degree in weedology, but you bring it with a negative attitude and you'll miss most of your audience (and lose some also)

Undercover Cop said:

Lol yeah dude, seriously I guess I am dumb then cuz I don't think its all about getting massive amounts of lumens onto the plants, if I subscribed to that theory I would have stuck to HID only...

I dont think of the "PAR technique" as using red/blue only, I take it to mean an optimized spectrum customized by the user instead of just pointing an HID light blaster at them and force feeding them with a less then perfect spectrum.

I see others picked up on what originally got my attention also, no one likes to be "told"things then called a fool, you could have a fuckin degree in weedology, but you bring it with a negative attitude and you'll miss most of your audience (and lose some also)

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Well said, want my like button back!

MurshDawg said:

You got some good bud porn to post with your awesome new findings, Luscius?

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Yea man. It's all in my journal and threads I have currently. I guess I was kinda lookin for a reason to stop following this one anyway. It frustrates the shit out of me and goes way too of course.

Heres one: https://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/522323-t5-grow-18-plants-under.html

Some people are born assholes, others evolve into that status. Others are even worse; the insufferable holier-than-thou/know-it-all borderline narcissists. Ive gone through almost this entire thread (4000+ posts) and learned a lot about light and how it affects photosynthesis but I hardly know everything. The point of any forum is to spread knowledge among like-minded people, and through 4000+ posts on a single topic things are bound to go astray here and there. As in real life, discussion often goes off topic. Some people have more patience than others for newbs (to this thread or even growing in general). Despite his current condescending attitude, he has helped and I merit him that much.

Some things Ive missed while reading through the thread; like the part where flora suns are where its at for a legit 660nm band and Coral Wave for the part where IR really boosts the production of flowering hormones. Also, the aqualife 420/460 completely covers the blue spectrum in a single lamp instead of having to pay more for SuperActinics and the 454s from UVL. Im glad I found this out now since I will be looking at buying about 2 dozen blue lamps soon for veg.

The internet is an amazing tool but by default it has its own limitations and the same can be said for books. Neither one will ever COMPLETELY teach you how to do something whether its growing, fixing a car, fishing, etc since its all user specific looking for certain things related to their needs. Cost might be a factor. Time might be a factor. Both are for me. For the issue of lighting, heat was a real problem. Im getting better and more effective light, less heat, and over all a better product. This is still a huge learning curve for some people, including myself.

For my own case, this specific endeavor involves so many different aspects and Im soaking up a lot of information all at once when Im already working two jobs. Two jobs plus time spent for research, then time spent on gardening work has been over 90 hours a week, every week for the past three months. I have a girlfriend on top of that. I sleep 5-7 hours a day bro. If anyone should have no patience, it should be me. Hit the peace pipe and remind yourself that we are here to spread knowledge and hopefully make friends.

If anyone feels like they are too advanced for the rest of us, feel free to look somewhere else for information since you already know everything you need to about this topic and best of luck to you.

Bow chicka wa wa

Bubba kush, hizzle drying. Still need to boil and press the hizzle

The picture on the left looks like a pile of dust bunnies hyroot lol.

infinitalus said:

The picture on the left looks like a pile of dust bunnies hyroot lol.

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Its hash my friend. Drying in a keyboard box. Later tonight I will put in a thick bag and place bag into boiling water for 1 to 2 min. Then press then freeze for 5 min and done.

Nice nugz.. Any specific strain of Bubba Kush?

I thought it might be, but the low resolution had me guessing. Im trying my first run at hash this harvest. My buds are already frosty and theyre in their third week. Just ordered the hash bags actually

My next run Ill be using 32 T5 lamps in a 4x8 area scrogging a different strain in each 4x4 'slot': Rocklock and Afghan Kush. Gonna put a few mystery seeds they send me in my order in a separate cabinet and clone if I get any females. By the time I have a second hut, the clones should be ready to go in. Putting the seed order in next month so Ill have them on hand for june/july when I harvest.

Popped in an order for another 4-bulb from that guy who has the good deals on ebay. Should be here before I need to harvest... will be using it as side/back-lighting in the flower chamber. Now I just gotta order some more flora suns and maybe one more coral wave...

Hyroot you got more bud shots for us? Lookin' great! That is a lot of hash I s'pect!

Nice altar! Im going to see if really heavy top light is going to be over kill for my colas. 864w Top light per 4'x4' scrog. Trying to match tropical sunlight atmosphere With dry air and uvb boosts for flowering. Hard to do near a lake but we will see with adequate ventilation. Ordered an outlet plugin digital thermostat for environment control inside the room. I keep my house adequately cooled to not have to run a separate ac, thankfully. It has been cooler lately but summer is just around the corner. June/july is harvest time, better to be prepared.

Infini: I would think one 8 bulb would be ample for veging. Once they outgrow the 2 X 4 move half to the other fixture. Save $$$


My personal experience using actinic bulbs (before and after) is this: my Quantum Grows perform much better. UVL AquaSun is nice too, and available with reflector.

I now run my Wave Point Coral Waves (2/8] in veg & flower.

Since figuring this out, my plants are infilling (and growing) quite nicely, so yesterday I replaced a Red Life (working fine) with a second Quantum Flower bulb (each on the outside) followed by 2 Coral Waves + 2 Quantum Grows. Only running 6 bulbs at the moment, but it won't be long before I need to go 8.

Seems the ZooMed FloraSun has ample blue/green for flowering. I say 'seems' as I am also mixing in 2 Q F + 2 Red Lifes during flower, so not sure whether that much red will overpower the b/g, but if need be I can go back to either the AquaSun or QGs until late flower.

I'll get off my lazy ass and take a couple pics then post...

Method is HPA (sans accumulator). Damn, I should have taken some root porn.

Mostly 9-10" , growing in all dimensions ~1.5" per day, now that lights are dialed in

PetFlora said:

Infini: I would think one 8 bulb would be ample for veging. Once they outgrow the 2 X 4 move half to the other fixture. Save $$$

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I agree until they are about 10" tall or so. Definitely not going to be wasting lamp life and electricity when I only need low amounts of light when they are still babies. Once I see ANY shadow from sugar leaves blocking light to another plant its time to space them out and get the screen in place. For my scrog, I plan on getting them a little taller before inducing flowering: 18-20". 6 plants are going to cover a 4x4 area and I want to make sure most of the screen will be filled, especially since Ill be running 16 lamps per 4x4 area which is ~80k lumens of good PAR lighting (5k lumens / sqft). Height isnt so much of a problem with my grow area, I have 6.5' to work with or about 5'10" after including the height of the fixture and suspension rope ratchets.

I have been utilizing 2x 26w CFL UVB lights (the Repti Glo 10.0 by R'zilla) for 4 hours a day in the middle of my flower cycle on the side of my hut that has the Grosite and the results are definitely noticeable. Next run, Im gonna be using 2 on each side for both veg and flower with the lights directly in the middle of the plants using a standing lamp. I run it for 1/3 of the time of the photo period, so 6 hours for veg (after 10" tall, dont want to kill them) and 4 hours for flower.

I thought a LOT about how to be able to provide drainage when Im flushing since Im using soil as my medium. There will be 6x 13" square pots per 4x4 space, making 4 columns of 3 pots. I found 44" long storage totes that I can cut around the outside, making the containers about 15" tall, just barely taller than the containers to make sure there will be little spillage of water, still be able to reach in and trim the plant, and short enough for the plant to grow out of. Once the sides of the tote are cut, Ill line it with mylar. Each plant spot will be marked with a large X using a sharpie. Drill 3x 1/2" holes on the bottom side of the tote (one for each plant), make some flexible hose lengths which runs to the front of the tent. Line up the hoses to make them flush for the tote and put some sealant on it. After watering/flushing, the run off will go straight to a collection bucket that I can dump in the tub. Cuts out a lot of labor and any need for a helping hand.

Light + CO2 = Photosynthesis, right? LV was right to a certain degree: With ample amounts of CO2 already, if you blast the canopy with high levels of USEFUL lumens and maintain environment the result will be explosive growth and/or frosty buds. Since Ill be doing scrog, I wont have a dire need for any side lighting. If I did, the result wouldnt be cost effective. However, with 32 lamps in a 4x8x6.5 space I am concerned once more with heat but Im pretty sure that with adequate ventilation and air cooling the lamps with these really nifty clip-on air king fans that Im already using, this should be a breeze. I put the order in last night along with my hash bags for an environment controller. Once the temp hits above 80 Ill have it set to run the intake/exhaust fans. Summer temps arent here yet but its coming up fast. If worst comes to worst, I already have a 3 year old 8,000 BTU A/C unit thats been laying around for the last year or so. My current living situation has central air and Im not looking to downgrade lol. I can easily build a stand with scrap lumber I have around here and hook it up into one of the tents 6" ported holes. Hopefully I wont need to do this, cost is already a limiting factor and I dont have $300 to spend on AC units and hookup ducting nor the time to build stands.

It sucks being poor and still needing equipment

In regards to bulb choices in Veg.

Has anyone noticed any slower growth with the use of Blue actinic bulbs? The plants do respond well to the light but the growth for me is slower. Based on this repeating 4 bulb mix @ 18/6. (6500 - Reefwave - 6500 - Bluewave) The nodal spacing does appear tighter.

In Flower i have an interesting thing happening to a Kola. It is centered between a Coral Wave and Red Wave tube. Half of the Kola is getting more Coral while the other is getting Red Suns. Imagine looking at a side view of a Kola on you screen, the hairs on the left side of the bud are exploding and pulling more towards the Coral Wave light on the left. The side of the Red Sun looks great but there is a physical difference between the two.

-48

48martin said:

In regards to bulb choices in Veg.

Has anyone noticed any slower growth with the use of Blue actinic bulbs? The plants do respond well to the light but the growth for me is slower. Based on this repeating 4 bulb mix @ 18/6. (6500 - Reefwave - 6500 - Bluewave) The nodal spacing does appear tighter. ...
-48

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There are quite a few people recently claiming faster growth using grow bulbs in veg vs actinics. I was going to point out something but 48 kinda did it for me... (in my experience) Actinic bulbs or a very blue dominant spectrum (Actinic/6500k) will promote very tight node spacing and will grow very bushy squatty plants, but it will be admittedly slower vs a more equal ratio of blue to G/Y/O/R like you'll get if using standard commercial grow/blooms only (*Actinics only, are NOT recommeded, dont go over 50% actinics, at least I dont recommend it). Those that arent using any Actinic bulbs at all or those that only use more balanced tri-band bulbs like the Quantum grow/blooms or the AquaSun probably will get faster growth (which may be their goal) but I can guarantee their node distances arent as tight as if there were actinics in play (I guarantee some will argue with me, but I promise you're not getting the fast growth AND 2-3 nodes per inch that I usually get with half Actinics) It aaaaalllll comes back to personal preference. I see stuff on TV and youtube, big professional grows etc and I see plants under 2ft tall with 6 inch node distances and I laugh! I personally prefer to keep my plants as small as possible and am not concerned with the fastest growth (there are times I wish they would slow down lol). For me, a good strong short squatty frame is more important to develop in veg to support massive colas and more yield in flower while still staying smallish. Others prefer the fastest growth for the quickest turn around. Everyone has their own personal preferences and techniques. I dont want to say that my way or anyones way is any better, I just want everyone to realize that there are many different ways to skin the same cat. Pot grown naturally outdoors under the sun usually has pretty long node spacing, and I do think the tri-band grow bulbs do simulate natural sunlight a little better than an Actinic (a-Duh! lol) but I like playing god to my plants and making them grow up how I want them to. Even if they appear freakishly un-natural with 10 nodes at 5inches tall!

just saying that you cant claim "better" performance from a bulb, since the performance/results are all relative to the growers preferences.


Same mexican bagseed strain, same age. 2nd pic was vegged under my flowering spectrum for 10days before 12/12 flip (no side branching). Just to show the different ways they will respond to light and how it will affect their actual physical structure.

48martin said:

In Flower i have an interesting thing happening to a Kola. It is centered between a Coral Wave and Red Wave tube. Half of the Kola is getting more Coral while the other is getting Red Suns. Imagine looking at a side view of a Kola on you screen, the hairs on the left side of the bud are exploding and pulling more towards the Coral Wave light on the left. The side of the Red Sun looks great but there is a physical difference between the two.

-48

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thats shows evidence of another fun fact. Phototropism, your plans are responding to the Actinic Blue light from the CW. Plants will grow towards a blue light more than others.
Youre gonna see more physical response from blue light than red, the red light plays more into promoting the internal processes involved in flowering, whereas the blues (abundance of, or lack of) will show more in their physical/structural appearance

maybe shift the light or the plant 2inches to kinda even it up, give the otherside some love

Amen brother. For me it works better since I need slightly more time in the Veg cycle to keep a perpetual cycle going. If I need to speed up the time, I can either go 24/0 Veg or change bulbs.

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48martin said:

Amen brother. For me it works better since I need slightly more time in the Veg cycle to keep a perpetual cycle going. If I need to speed up the time, I can either go 24/0 Veg or change bulbs.

-48

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To be honest I've been vegging with a 250 watt hps and flowering using my t5s.

UCC, good info!

I flip my plants around every day or two for even light distribution. My canopy is way out of control considering their size and how much light I have available for them. Next grow will be different with 32 lamps.

I am running 3 small ones under this light as test subjects. I normally rotate the stock I have everyday 90 degrees to keep from hot spots from forming. The testers are in place for genetics that I am not too familiar with and in smaller pots for me to experiment with. (allows me to test nute levels)
Within the 3 different plants I try different pruning techniques and growing methods.
I just found it interesting that there was that much movement from the Coral Wave vs. the Redsun almost to the point of replacing a few of the redsuns with Coral Waves.

ps I like fun facts. Thanks for the in depth reply.

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