LED Without LEDs -My First T5 Grow

pr0fesseur said:

Yes we have discussed these bulbs..
I have recommended the coral waves the reef waves are similar to the actinic plus..
There are better bulbs especially those with internal reflectors..like UVL Internal reflectors.

Click to expand...

i agree that more directional lamps are superior if the spectrum & optimal ambient operating temps are in concord.
what are your thoughts on the Sun Wave & Tropical Wave lamps please?

i know from reading your posts that you are not a fan of LEDs currently being marketed as 'Grow Lights', but i have found that clones & mother plants seem to like the specialty 7.5watt 96.80 CRI Pucks [200lumens per] that we developed for 35watt Halogen replacements in the luxury retail market. [light distribution is 100 degree]

LM-79 test report with test results FYI:
http://s77163.gridserver.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/Puck-8F-001g-S3.pdf
your thoughts about why the clones & mothers might be liking these?

Has anybody checked these guys out? Pretty cool stuff!

http://www.flowmagic.com/

One product that caught my eye in particular is their 4 foot/8 tube T5 HO (54W each)/T8 LED (22W each) combo fixture. I found online pricing as low as $170.00 for the fixture, and the T8 LED tubes are as low as $66.00 each... *Could* be awesome IF the LED tubes are any good...

Each T8 Red tube has 288 LEDs, 660nm only
Each T8 Blue/White tube has 288 LEDs, 144 420nm/144 5500K

What gets me hung up is the 288 LEDs running at only 22W??? Seems crazy to me, as that computes out to merely 0.0764W/LED... Meanwhile other LED grow lights are running at 3W/LED...

Thoughts? Anyone have any experience with AgroLED T8 tubes?

Yeah, 288 LEDs running at 22W sounds utterly useless, right?!?!? meh...

PetFlora said:

I am reading a 12/12 from seed thread. Clearly it works, but wouldn't 10-14 days of veg first significantly improve yield? Also I am looking into getting some Air Pots. If doing a 12/12 or variant with APs, geez I would imagine getting 8-10 plants under an 8 bulb.

Click to expand...

I already had a grow going, and I only have the one area to work with, so I really had no choice, the 12/12 from seed was the only way I could get another grow going.

Funny thing is the first 3-4 weeks was all veg anyway. So the only advantage of going pure veg the first couple weeks would be plant size. I have read about fimming, topping and bending the plants over to control size. The 12/12 from seed seems to solve that from the get go. And seeing what del66666 has done with 12/12 from seed in terms of yield kind of pushed me into it as well. So I'll see what kind of yield I get from 12/12 and go from there.

Also - and I've written this before - around the Equatorial region of the globe, all days are 12/12, and they seem to get some nice yield there.

Here's a pic of my new bulbs, gang! Thanks a lot Pr0fesseur for letting me know I am not totally insane (just a little crazy). From right to left: 3000k, 454, red sun, 6500k. I am planning on getting a couple of Super violets to replace the 6500k lamps. Thanks again guys!

MurshDawg said:

Here's a pic of my new bulbs, gang! Thanks a lot Pr0fesseur for letting me know I am not totally insane (just a little crazy). From right to left: 3000k, 454, red sun, 6500k. I am planning on getting a couple of Super violets to replace the 6500k lamps. Thanks again guys!

Click to expand...

Looks great. I look forward to seeing what you can turn out with it. I'm going to be adding on a small grow using that setup out here in AZ soon as well.

I wanted to post up some pics of my new light in action.
For now I'm going with a 5 bulb mix: Fiji, 454, Redsun, Actanic +, 75.25..... then repeat.... ending up with a fiji purp on the ends of my 16 lamp fixture. I thought more blue than red would be better for veg, in some places it's a 3:1 ratio B:R and in others it's 1:1 ratio B:R. I also have some yellow/green/orange thrown in there to add spectrum every fifth light with the 75.25.
I can say having it for only 24 hours the new growth on my plants are loving the light!.... but more than likely it's because I tripled the wattage it's now under
I'll pop back in regularly on Sundays and post pics of the progress for a veg grow or two.

Thanks again for all the good ideas involving T5 lighting Professeur!
P.S. I'll be looking out for your plasma lighting thread when you start it.


For reference lights from Left to Right, ...........................Fiji....454....................RedSun....Actanic+.........................75.25....Fiji.........454....Redsun...........Actanic+

^looks great

UnderCurrentDWC said:

I wanted to post up some pics of my new light in action.
For now I'm going with a 5 bulb mix: Fiji, 454, Redsun, Actanic +, 75.25..... then repeat.... ending up with a fiji purp on the ends of my 16 lamp fixture. I thought more blue than red would be better for veg, in some places it's a 3:1 ratio B:R and in others it's 1:1 ratio B:R. I also have some yellow/green/orange thrown in there to add spectrum every fifth light with the 75.25.
I can say having it for only 24 hours the new growth on my plants are loving the light!.... but more than likely it's because I tripled the wattage it's now under
I'll pop back in regularly on Sundays and post pics of the progress for a veg grow or two.

Thanks again for all the good ideas involving T5 lighting Professeur!
P.S. I'll be looking out for your plasma lighting thread when you start it.

For reference lights from Left to Right, ...........................Fiji....454....................RedSun....Actanic+.........................75.25....Fiji.........454....Redsun...........Actanic+

Click to expand...

Looking fantastic, bro! got a little burn on your bottom leaves?

MurshDawg said:

Looking fantastic, bro! got a little burn on your bottom leaves?

Click to expand...

I accidentally used a contaminated sprayer bottle(weed killer) a week ago when foliar feeding and It left burnt patches on some of the plants. The white on some of the leaves is diatomaceous earth.

After putting up the new light I've noticed my leaves have developed DEEP ridges (they kind of look like Ruffles potato chips), the stalks and veins are becoming a fluorescent purple, sharpening/more defined serrated edges and over all healthier looking plant.

UnderCurrentDWC said:

I accidentally used a contaminated sprayer bottle(weed killer) a week ago when foliar feeding and It left burnt patches on some of the plants. The white on some of the leaves is diatomaceous earth.

After putting up the new light I've noticed my leaves have developed DEEP ridges (they kind of look like Riffles potato chips), the stalks and veins are becoming a fluorescent purple, sharpening/more defined serrated edges and over all healthier looking plant.

Click to expand...

My leaves did the same thing... literally like mountain ridges... the stems were super healthy and very stiff i never had one broken branch..unless i was lst/fimming

The plants may start leaning into the actinics so rotate your plants if possible...

So lets get a review
what have you learned/noticed
how are the temps?
how close on average are your lights
has your water consumption gone up?
Diatomaceous earth is acidic so be careful! not like burning acidic just i can change your ph....
Are you planning on training your plants?

pr0fesseur said:

My leaves did the same thing... literally like mountain ridges... the stems were super healthy and very stiff i never had one broken branch..unless i was lst/fimming

The plants may start leaning into the actinics so rotate your plants if possible...

Click to expand...

So lets get a review
what have you learned/noticed
I've noticed the leaves pray to the light with intensity now, leaves have turned dark green and developed DEEP ridges, the stalks and veins are becoming a fluorescent purple, sharpening/more defined serrated edges, The smell of the plant is much stronger and a overall healthier looking plant. I've also noticed burnt leaves when they touch the light bulbs and a few spots of bleaching of the leaf (it's really only a few spots where I noticed this and I think It's just the plant getting use to the light and I don't think I will continue).
how are the temps?
Higher.... but not unmanageable, I'm running 3 times the watts as before the light switch. I'd say the room runs 4-5 degrees warmer I've had to turn my exhaust fan to 24/0 instead of 15 min/hour and I've had to turn on my 16" oscillating fan.
how close on average are your lights
2-4" above the canopy
has your water consumption gone up?
Oh yeah! twice as much or more... the 12 plants burn through about 2 gallons a day now.
Diatomaceous earth is acidic so be careful! not like burning acidic just i can change your ph....
I haven't had a problem with it yet, I know it has run off into the rez from foliar feeding.... I'm using Supernatural Nutes, it has a Ph buffer that could be why I haven't seen a change.
Are you planning on training your plants?
Yes!... I have been training the older ones by tying them down to open them up for SCROG, I've also been thinking about letting half the plants just grow regularly supported by tomato cadges and compare yields. I'm going to make 2 of the 12 mother plants so I can keep it a perpetual garden, then I'll take the best 8 of the remaining 10 plants and put them in the flower room in the Under Current system.

Here's a pic of the growth in under 48 hours on one of the small plants.

Great response... ya youll have to let your plants get used to the lights. they are intense to plants... 2" is kinda close but if your plants can handle the temps leave em be... i would lift them up just a touch... leaves are gonna burn when they touch these lamps.. but not right away and if you have a good fan blowing you should see the plants really bush out with tons of early tricomes and a wonderful smell...something ive noticed only with my lights... the plants seem to recover from shock much faster as well
great setup i cant wait for more updates...

I just scimmed through your thread and would like it if you could show me the results of your last grow the final results. Nice thread btw and I am subbed. If you feel like checking mine out here you can check out my youtube page.
[video=youtube;vPMhPvsMsTU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vPMhPvsMsTU[/video]

Great to hear your having great results would like to see them once you have everything dialed in...
Yes the airpots are a great choice you will love them... remember to SOAK them in the airpots...you cant over water them!

theharborgreenthumb said:

I just scimmed through your thread and would like it if you could show me the results of your last grow the final results. Nice thread btw and I am subbed. If you feel like checking mine out here you can check out my youtube page.

Click to expand...

Love the Clones wish i could pick some up! If you threw at least one actinic bulb in that mix you will see some amazing results.. a fiji purple would give you the best of both worlds, enhanced growth and better stress recovery!
the results of my grow are in this thread all my pics of them being chopped are here as well...
You should spend the time to read through the thread there is some really good science in here.
I have answered almost every possible question and with the help from others i have made a complete breakdown of this method.
This is not however a thread of comparison or how much you can grow... this is dedicated to the sheer efficacy of the method..
My grow was NOT intended to work. in fact i hoped it would fail as thats how the scientific method works.
2 plants i have never grown, organic nutes, SUPERSOIL and water! i netted 90grams off 2 plants dried. this was only meant to show that the method works and will grow plants...
This was never about yield or quality, you cannot quantify two separate measurements with one single experiment... its all about the quality of the light and the PAR that you are giving the plant.
With a higher PAR you need less light to provide the same results to the plant. Using distinct bands of light i can get my par values close to 100% most HPS and MH are in the 30-60% range...
Using the reverse Square law 90% PAR at 2" my plants receive close to 100% of the photons emitted by the lamps... Using HPS/MH at 1' away plants receive MAXIMUM 50% of the light you provide.. and thats math fact!
Also using Actinic light the Photonic energy produced by the t5 1x54w bulb provides more photonic energy in the 400nm range than ANY HID lamp on the market...
Actinic light is so energetic that it carries a charge! this charge plants can use to facilitate photosynthesis..

Ok. So I have been reading through all of this and I just don't see the point. Is this to prove that these bulbs will just work or work better than say 6500K bulbs and 3000K. If your setup does not increase quality and create larger yields why spend all the extra cash on specialty bulbs? So do you feel your setup is better (creating larger yields and big tight sticky buds) than what most T5 growers are using?

Tyler. What are you missing? The bulbs we are using have 2-3+Xs (edit- all in the PAR range) the lumen output of standard horticulture T 5s. That's like going from 150w CMH to a 300-450w. Any doubt which one of those will produce more? Additionally, because individual bulbs are available in much more PAR specific ranges than standard horticulture T5s, we can dial in the amount of PAR we want during grow and bloom by mixing them together. Pretty cool really.

In my current 6 bulb mix, I had one Quantum Bloom bulb mixed in with 3 Quantum Grows (which have a nice PAR balance including a small 420 peak). To these I added the following aquarium bulbs: 2 UVL AquaSuns during grow. Yesterday, I flipped to 12/12: today I replaced the one Quantum Bloom with a UVL Red Life (formerly Red Sun). The difference in color from just replacing that one bulb on the plants is amazing, leaving no doubt here as to why. I also have UVL Super Actinics and Coral Waves on order. hth