Lets be honest and talk about microbes there use, affects and cost

Medskunk

Well-Known Member
Added microbes saved my first two grows of 7 plants. In conjunction with proper waterings. Not that it wouldnt get better if i just watered properly but now after several grows i understand that they wouldnt bounce back at the same pace.

Mycos help like hell with transplants. Zero stress.
 

getogrow

Well-Known Member
If there would be enough in the soil to begin with, then it would be as pointless to add self made or bought. Self making will likely require so much time, that i dont personally see saving, i see waste of time rather than waste of money and id rather spend that amount of money than that amount of time for nothing.

Therefore your argument is pointless if you jsut say that there are enough of them in soil, so buying is pointless.

However i personally use them in a mix that is mostly coco, perlite etc and very little if any soil. Whether they are pointless in that is a whole another argument not related to spending time vs money.
i dont really have an argument sir :bigjoint:
Starting in a healthy SOIL, the plant will not use most of the additional bennies and fungi we throw in the mix although im not against the use of them at any time.
Starting in dirt or soiless mixes such as coco and peat will often lack the microbiology that we want and the plants thrive in..... so yes i would recommend using "bennies in a bag" to help jumpstart the process. If you dont have a worm bin or 10 or compost then its probably easier for you to just use store bought and you probably get a more diverse array of microbes/fungi.
This is all stuff we love and see as cool but in reality , you dont really need any extra bennies. hydro or soil.
Im convinced , with no scientific evidence , that its the "nature" that produces the terps i like the most, so ill continue to use additional bennies an myco but i highly doubt thc is any higher or yield is much better from using EWC/good used soil/microbe products. thats my 8 cents of dummyness to add.
 

getogrow

Well-Known Member
Mycos help like hell with transplants. Zero stress.
Again, i use um and love um but im positive its not the mycos giving you zero stress....your just getting good at it and they are showing it. I always use added mycos when transplanting because i believe they help down the road and would like to get them established in the roots early. That being said , i do not think that would help with stress from transplanting. Mycorrizae thrives on roots in depleted soil/s. (the plant feeds the myco and the myco grows, making the roots "bigger" and longer so they can reach out further in search of food for the plant and if the plant has plenty of food right there in the pot then the myco will just go dormant or die)

i never got my grade 9 , so i talk a lil fucked up and grammer is on par with a 3 year old but i know what im trying to say is correct :eyesmoke: :mrgreen:
 

Medskunk

Well-Known Member
A few times when i forgot to dip the roots in the powder it went a bit dodgy i guess. But maybe like you say. Maybe i got prejudice, many parameters around but i dont think ill change this routine. Even if they die like someone said above ---(edit. or like you say lol sr)--- Ive shredded a quarter of the soil with some roots while transplanting it from the solo cup put the myco, all done not a problem. Yeeha

No i understand your grammar well bud
 
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getogrow

Well-Known Member
A few times when i forgot to dip the roots in the powder it went a bit dodgy i guess. But maybe like you say. Maybe i got prejudice, many parameters around but i dont think ill change this routine. Even if they die like someone said above ---(edit. or like you say lol sr)--- Ive shredded a quarter of the soil with some roots while transplanting it from the solo cup put the myco, all done not a problem. Yeeha

No i understand your grammar well bud
i understand your ways too... dont change it if you like it. All in all im am a huge fan of myco.
 

eyderbuddy

Well-Known Member
i dont really have an argument sir :bigjoint:
Starting in a healthy SOIL, the plant will not use most of the additional bennies and fungi we throw in the mix although im not against the use of them at any time.
Starting in dirt or soiless mixes such as coco and peat will often lack the microbiology that we want and the plants thrive in..... so yes i would recommend using "bennies in a bag" to help jumpstart the process. If you dont have a worm bin or 10 or compost then its probably easier for you to just use store bought and you probably get a more diverse array of microbes/fungi.
This is all stuff we love and see as cool but in reality , you dont really need any extra bennies. hydro or soil.
Im convinced , with no scientific evidence , that its the "nature" that produces the terps i like the most, so ill continue to use additional bennies an myco but i highly doubt thc is any higher or yield is much better from using EWC/good used soil/microbe products. thats my 8 cents of dummyness to add.
I sort of agree, but i'd love to add my 2 cents

I think nothing beats a well cared for soil that's perfectly suited to grow bud... Lets be honest, the optimal natural habitat when it's functioning properly is the best thing ever.

But on the production side, the way plant functions is very well defined. You can only accomplish so much by providing nutrients if the root zone isn't optimal for plant growth. And we also scientifically know that certain bacteria (like for example, the ones in mammoth p) provide certain benefits that will be really hard to get outside of a carefully controlled environment.

Is it impossible to do it outside using soil and composting techniques, and naturally available bacteria and fungi? Certainly not.

My point simply being that having tested and certified microorganism in a bottle is ridiculously convenient. Specially for the hydro or semi hydro grower.

Maybe like everyone else, i also started without using microbes, and i had decent harvests without them. But using microbes made me understand so much more, like the dynamics of a healthy environment. This changed the way i grew completely, and i ended up with much much better bud =]
 

getogrow

Well-Known Member
I sort of agree, but i'd love to add my 2 cents

My point simply being that having tested and certified microorganism in a bottle is ridiculously convenient. Specially for the hydro or semi hydro grower
Bud , when im around your 2 cents is more then welcome. no one knows it all and a few debates here and there will fill our heads with useful info for future use.
i have nothing to debate here. "having tested and certified microorganism in a bottle is ridiculously convenient" Thats very true. I do believe you can get all those beneficials in good compost or ewc but for a numbers guy , you are spot on. most growers are numbers guys/gals , thats just how most do it. Thats the most effeciant way for you to add them.... Without an in house lab , i cannot debate anything in organics.
 

SCJedi

Well-Known Member
I'll keep my money in my bank account. Others can spend all they want on unnecessary products. I can guarantee my grows will be just as good as theirs without the unneeded products..
I mostly do the same. Occasionally I'll walk over the the biggest tree in the park across the street from our house and brew a handful of the soil/bark in molasses water. Why buy if I can look at mature forestry and mimic what it thrives in?
 

xtsho

Well-Known Member
I mostly do the same. Occasionally I'll walk over the the biggest tree in the park across the street from our house and brew a handful of the soil/bark in molasses water. Why buy if I can look at mature forestry and mimic what it thrives in?
Plus they will be Indigenous Microorganisms (IMO). I've been looking into Korean Natural Farming KNF and JADAM natural farming. Really interesting stuff and the path that I'm going to take with my vegetable gardening and cannabis cultivation.

 

Oakiey

Well-Known Member
I use it, still not sure if it's a waste of money, I know that stuff you get to start an aquarium is useless, nothing really alive in those bottles, maybe just a little ammonia to feed what occurs naturally
 

getogrow

Well-Known Member
I use it, still not sure if it's a waste of money, I know that stuff you get to start an aquarium is useless, nothing really alive in those bottles, maybe just a little ammonia to feed what occurs naturally
See, i was always under the impression that the stuff in the bottle worked great for fish tanks. guess i was wrong? ive always been a bit leary of liquid microbes, i suppose thjats why.
Ive never kept exotic fish or even finicky ones. although my most recent tank was a lake tangie tank and it was a bit harder to keep all the fish happy then it was just keeping oscars , guppies, ect...
thanks for that info.
 

SCJedi

Well-Known Member
Plus they will be Indigenous Microorganisms (IMO). I've been looking into Korean Natural Farming KNF and JADAM natural farming. Really interesting stuff and the path that I'm going to take with my vegetable gardening and cannabis cultivation.

I watched a really cool youtube video years ago where a guy puts rice in pantyhose and buries it about 12" down next to a big healthy tree. He comes back about 10-12 months later, digs it up and brews it into tea.
 

dynomyco

Well-Known Member
I have limited time but want to reach as many of the influencers as possible. For starters pls forgive my grammar. ok here we go.

Ok so as everyone is finding out microbes and parasitic fungi are powerful tools that are allowing growers to achieve higher yields with stronger plants. We are finding that using microbes and fungi or beenies or what ever you want to call are very safe and effective ways to prevent and attack insects and disease.

Now what products do we use ?

Companion
Myco Jordan
Roots
Mammoth P
Triple Threat
Em-1
Mbx Grow
Root Shield
microbe lift
Bio-Ag
Azos
X treme mycos
Great white
Orca
The list is long. so we need to understand whats in them and, how strong is the mix/Cost? and effect and yield and quality.

After some time spent researching the data and actually trying the products on cannabis I would like to start the conversation there. As usual alot of product makers are not to forth coming about how the product actual works. Its more about promotion vs education.

Lets look at a common mix of microbes from a popular brand. 7 species Endomycorrhizae & 11 species Ectomycorrhizae
• 67,000 Endo & 1.5 billion Ecto Propagules per lb.
• 19 species Bacteria/ 2 species Trichoderma
• Biostimulant & Vitamin Package

Now what happens when this mix is used on cannabis? Ok lets say we will eliminate the ectomycos because they are for some trees. The endos are good but the trichoderma are far more aggresive and will actually compete and eat the remaining Endos. So it looks like we are getting the most benifits from this popular mix by the Trichoderma and maybe also the "biostimulant" ??? Not sure what that
specifically is, and the vitamins.

So that brings me to are trichoderma being as aggressive as they are the best option for cannabis.

I am positive the are not. There are more effective microbes and they are bacillus. Now I will predict that someone will argue that there are so many other beneficials and we should use a more whole approach to achieving a healthy and thriving microbiome. I agree. I also will say that to be clear using competitive exclusion tactics with microbes is just that and building a healthy microbioem can be done in different ways. For instance guy lives on farm he has all the healthy organic imputs he needs to build healthy soills and microbiomes. The guy in a indoor grow lab using areoponics has to take a different approach.

These are the folks I really want to join the thread. This is because under these indoor or medium less enviros we need to have a more designed effective science meets ag meets biotechnology approach and this is where the Bacillus comes in strong. I have a whole lot of independent and in house data that proves bacillus is performing stronger than other micros. Each particular species and subspecies is different and performs different symbiotic functions with and within the plant.

So this brings us to ............Drum Beat >>>......>>>>...>>>...>>>.. who or what product has the most effective bacillus subspecies . this will directly effect yield and plant quality. It is measurable. Just a simple test with different products and we are all to having the data and proof of which person or company can bring the highest yields to the grower because of the particular subspecies they have are the best at doing what they do. Just like humans and canna strains all dont function with the same effects or efficiencies. Dont believe me just try going against Shaq in basketball. Both are human but 1 is better genetics.

We reduce nutrient strengths by 1/2 and increase yield and quality because disease and pests are defeated naturally. Plant health, brix levels, and genetic defenses within the plant are all functioning properly now because of the symbiosis with the microbes. Plants producing sugars and the microbes are converting more NPK's, releasing , aminos and enzymes all together in sync.

Now if you have multiple species of bacillus working together and you use the competitive exclusion method by introducing at a level that you have all good microbes thriving then the bad guys dont ever get a chance to get established. Ok here is a area where people are going to doubt or even hate on me.

As I have explained above this is the way you get 30-50% yield increases when others are getting 16% at most. To make even more skeptics this combo of aggressive
bacillus costs a fraction of the cost folks are paying for microbes now.

I want to make it clear I am not here to push or promote or even suggest any particular product. I am here to speak to understanding what we are using , how they work, are they safe and the cost and return.


Lets get some experienced members or mentors to vet what I am saying and to shed light on the truth and cut through the power of large companies to manipulate public opinion through sites like this and others. Lets see if we the little people and the simple grower or patient can have a voice of truth and educate folks for the good of great clean medicine that we know cannabis is.

For my love of cannabis growing and consuming is strong and as passionate as ever. I have had a grow room, greenhouse, or field ever since I fell in love with this plant over 30 years ago. View attachment 4330108 View attachment 4330110 View attachment 4330120
Have you ever tried DYNOMYCO? It has 900 propagules/gram of 2 species of endomycorrhizal fungi which have been scientifically proven to form a symbiotic relationship with cannabis. Endomycorrhizal fungi have been proven to benefit cannabis whereas ectomycorrhizae do not colonise cannabis roots and therefor don't benefit the growth of the plant. Would be glad to answer any questions and provide more info. Feel free to reach out !

Happy growing:D:peace:
 

getogrow

Well-Known Member
Have you ever tried DYNOMYCO? It has 900 propagules/gram of 2 species of endomycorrhizal fungi which have been scientifically proven to form a symbiotic relationship with cannabis. Endomycorrhizal fungi have been proven to benefit cannabis whereas ectomycorrhizae do not colonise cannabis roots and therefor don't benefit the growth of the plant. Would be glad to answer any questions and provide more info. Feel free to reach out !

Happy growing:D:peace:
Thats it ? all it contains is Endo mycorrizea ? Why so limited on microbes ? Myco is great but its way overrated. Read what it actually does an see why most folks cannot use the extra. Its ok , im one of the label dummies. i buy myco to add when its not needed but i do it because we just dont know whats in the mix. So im guilty of wasting money just like the rest of us.
 

dynomyco

Well-Known Member
With no other additional additives into DYNOMYCO we are still getting better results because of the high concentrations of mycorrhizal fungi.

To say that these mycorrhizal fungi don't do anything is inaccurate and could be due to the fact that either you experienced a product with an inferior propagule count or that of these propagules maybe only a small percent were actually active/viable (able to achieve inoculation).

The difference with DYNOMYCO is that we have high concentrations of these two species of endomycorrhizae which we know do the magic when it comes to cannabis plants. Therefor we don't need to add a whole bunch of other ingredients to achieve these results which other companies have to do.
 

getogrow

Well-Known Member
With no other additional additives into DYNOMYCO we are still getting better results because of the high concentrations of mycorrhizal fungi.

To say that these mycorrhizal fungi don't do anything is inaccurate and could be due to the fact that either you experienced a product with an inferior propagule count or that of these propagules maybe only a small percent were actually active/viable (able to achieve inoculation).

The difference with DYNOMYCO is that we have high concentrations of these two species of endomycorrhizae which we know do the magic when it comes to cannabis plants. Therefor we don't need to add a whole bunch of other ingredients to achieve these results which other companies have to do.
Other companies do it because its what we want. Have you ever seen an organic grower using only mycorrizea fungi to help aid in uptake ? Oh , you must be marketing this product for hydro guys. I'd LOVE to see your research involving myco and hydro!

I never said myco does not do anything. I simply said , most of the time, extra is not needed. All good bag soils contain it. Myco thrives the most when the plants are low on food. Plants feed the myco , then in return , the myco makes the "roots bigger" and able to reach farther to find food. If there is plenty of food in your soil then the myco will die or go dormant.
There thats enough free info for you today sir!

Happy selling!
Soil :bigjoint:
 

MICHI-CAN

Well-Known Member
Other companies do it because its what we want. Have you ever seen an organic grower using only mycorrizea fungi to help aid in uptake ? Oh , you must be marketing this product for hydro guys. I'd LOVE to see your research involving myco and hydro!

I never said myco does not do anything. I simply said , most of the time, extra is not needed. All good bag soils contain it. Myco thrives the most when the plants are low on food. Plants feed the myco , then in return , the myco makes the "roots bigger" and able to reach farther to find food. If there is plenty of food in your soil then the myco will die or go dormant.
There thats enough free info for you today sir!

Happy selling!
Soil :bigjoint:
Wonder if they would sponsor a head to head against my dormant white fungus harvested from under White Oak bark on 2 year seasoned cut wood? Microbes are free. And local is always best. Capitalism.??
 

Rurumo

Well-Known Member
Other companies do it because its what we want. Have you ever seen an organic grower using only mycorrizea fungi to help aid in uptake ? Oh , you must be marketing this product for hydro guys. I'd LOVE to see your research involving myco and hydro!

I never said myco does not do anything. I simply said , most of the time, extra is not needed. All good bag soils contain it. Myco thrives the most when the plants are low on food. Plants feed the myco , then in return , the myco makes the "roots bigger" and able to reach farther to find food. If there is plenty of food in your soil then the myco will die or go dormant.
There thats enough free info for you today sir!

Happy selling!
Soil :bigjoint:
Some products simply go for a more is better/shotgun approach to microbes, but it's more complicated than that. For example there is plenty of evidence that shows applying trichoderma sp at the same time as mycorrhizae is not optimal. Here is an interesting discussion on the topic: https://www.researchgate.net/post/Does_Trichoderma_interfere_with_mycorrhizae_root_colonization. Now, as you can see, there are people on both sides of the debate, but many soil scientists recommend applying mycorrhizae first, followed by the trichoderma sp at least a week later. So there is certainly a place in the market for a 100% mycorrhizae product. We are just in the beginning stages of understanding the soil microbiome. That said, I do think these products work, and are quite beneficial judging from past side by side grows I've done. It's entirely true that none of these products are "needed." Some people here just say KISS and brush off the research, and that's their prerogative, but reading the research papers is all part of the fun for some of us. For example, I'm a huge fan of Southern Ag Biological Fungicide, aka hydroguard, but bacillus amyloliquefaciens does so much more than just act as a "fungicide." I was just reading this prior to finding this topic and thought some might find it interesting: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1049964417301329. Disease inhibition, increased germination rate, increased root mass, production of auxins, etc. Anyway, that's all I have! I'm curious about the Dynomyco product due to the amount of propagules it contains-practically double over most of the other myco products, like Great White. I may try it and follow up with a trichoderma product for my next grow, and do a side by side with untreated plants just for fun. Have a great day folks!
 

dynomyco

Well-Known Member
Other companies do it because its what we want. Have you ever seen an organic grower using only mycorrizea fungi to help aid in uptake ? Oh , you must be marketing this product for hydro guys. I'd LOVE to see your research involving myco and hydro!

I never said myco does not do anything. I simply said , most of the time, extra is not needed. All good bag soils contain it. Myco thrives the most when the plants are low on food. Plants feed the myco , then in return , the myco makes the "roots bigger" and able to reach farther to find food. If there is plenty of food in your soil then the myco will die or go dormant.
There thats enough free info for you today sir!

Happy selling!
Soil :bigjoint:
If only a few ingredients can do the task of many, outperform them and it's at a lower price, why then not go for it? We're not about producing something where most of the ingredients don't do anything. After 30 years of R&D, we've seen that our ingredient list can deliver a significant difference on its own. If you want to add bacteria or other ingredients along with it, that's your decision.

You certainly could use it in a hydro system, though it would depend on your set up. Ideally though it's for soil, coco, peat or a combination of those (and that is where our research has been focused on) and you could use it in rockwool as well.
 
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