Liberal Media - Fort Hood Spin

RickWhite

RickWhite

Well-Known Member
fonzirellie said:
I have studied islam and have several friend that are muslim and both seem to contradict what you are saying.

You are making a bold generalization about all muslims. I am astounded by your intolerance. What would you suggest, religious cleansing?
You do realize that the minute you are willing to infringe on someone else's liberties is the day you infringe on your own.

words of one of our founding fathers:
They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security.

see the connection?
Click to expand...
You have not studied Islam - at least not much. You can't go by what a few Muslims tell you - it means nothing as not all have the same beliefs.

Besides, what peaceful Muslims believe isn't the issue. The issue is what the radicals believe and there are a lot of them.

Check out www.memritv.org or www.jihadwatch.org
 
RickWhite

RickWhite

Well-Known Member
PadawanBater said:
Segregating Muslim American soldiers, which you advocated be done, throughout the military isn't "pulling a snap decision on public policy"?
Click to expand...


Can you show me where I have advocated segragating Muslims?

Since you can not, I must ask again that you stop telling lies about me. You have lied several times in an attempt to impugn my character and it is starting to piss me off. Stop lying!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The rule of law depends on one thing Rick. Are you a human? Yeah, OK then there you go. You do not need to agree to these established rules to be protected under them. If we took away peoples rights to be governed by the rule of western law, a fair trial, etc. for simply denying other individuals the same rights during a time of war, then we're no better than that which we fight to defend such freedoms against. They make you give your rights away by instilling fear into you. That is how terrorism succeeds. Not by killing innocent people, anyone can do that, but by taking something from you that you will never get back, your freedom, your right. Remember Habeas corpus?

Law is universal, not just American, not just western.

[/QUOTE]


It is laughable that you presume to pontificate as if you are some super enlightened intellectual. Is it not clear yet that in my eyes your ideas are as illuminating as a 5 Watt bulb.

You understanding of the roll of due process as it relates to issues larger than the simple domestic prosecution of criminals is laughable and demonstrative of your ignorance on numerous levels.

First, there is nothing good about our legal system and nothing good would ever come of prosecuting combatants - ever hear of OJ Simpson. Furthermore, the discovery process would expose critical classified information to our enemies that they could use against us. 2nd, the last thing we want is slick lawyers and idiot judges involved in our National security.

Our legal system is woefully inadequate when it comes to matters of ethics and questions of morality. And where do you get that it should be a global standard? That is a self contradictory statement because you would be infringing on the sovereignty of other Nations.

Anyway, I did not suggest violating anyone's rights but I do think we are facing a threat that might lead to some very serious debate over what should be done. This is a very complex issue and well beyond what we as laymen can discuss here. And I have no problem admitting that I don't know what the right answers are at this point. All I know for a fact is that we ought to be learning all we can about the situation and not burying any information. But of course your mind is already closed so...

But do yourself a favor, Google Plato's Allegory of the Cave. See if you can find a good explanation because you won't understand the original text without reading an explanation first. It might open your eyes a bit and maybe you will see that the shadows you are so convinced of are not what you think.
 
P

PadawanBater

Guest
Can you show me where I have advocated segragating Muslims?
Since you can not, I must ask again that you stop telling lies about me. You have lied several times in an attempt to impugn my character and it is starting to piss me off. Stop lying!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Click to expand...
Howbout that! Rick was right about something. I skimmed through a few pages and didn't find a post where he actively advocated segregating Muslims. So I'm sorry for accusing you of that. Though I also didn't find any post where you condemn such ideas. Here's the bit where that part of the discussion was brough up, initially from GreenCross;
GreenCross
All islamic believing individuals should be immediately removed from high level positions including military service, before they kill again.
Click to expand...
Then HMTH agreeing with GC, only with a slight stipulation...
HaulMeToHeaven
I agree with Green Cross but must add- only Wahabist Islam adherents need be removed.
Click to expand...
Then finally Jeff comes along and presents an impossible idea that lacks all reasoning...
Jeff f
i dont agree that we should remove muslims from power. however, if they are in sensative positions (ie the military, police, work at a power plant) and they are known to say shit like, "cant wait to join the martyrs" then yes, they should be removed til we figure out if they are jihadists. nothing wrong with that in my opinion.
Click to expand...
So excuse me for getting people confused.. kiss-ass:roll:

It is laughable that you presume to pontificate as if you are some super enlightened intellectual. Is it not clear yet that in my eyes your ideas are as illuminating as a 5 Watt bulb.
Click to expand...
Well, if you're confused about anything I'm saying, all you have to do is ask. I'm not the one telling you "DON'T PM ME!"...

You understanding of the roll of due process as it relates to issues larger than the simple domestic prosecution of criminals is laughable and demonstrative of your ignorance on numerous levels.
Click to expand...
Dude, listen to what you are saying right now. People outside the United States do not deserve the right to due process. The right to a fair trial, the right to established laws that govern the way we both agree human society should be run... You are arguing against yourself without even realizing it. I'm sure a super smart guy like yourself understands that the laws the United States incorporated into the Constitution and Decleration of Independence, the documents you seem to think are the only things which guarantee our rights as human beings (not just American citizens), were well established before the unification of the country, right? Most of them originated from ancient Greece and Rome, were further strengthened by the Magna Carta and Enlightenment.
John Locke, Voltaire, Rousseau... You've heard of these guys, right?
Like I said, law is universal, not just western and not just American.

First, there is nothing good about our legal system and nothing good would ever come of prosecuting combatants - ever hear of OJ Simpson. Furthermore, the discovery process would expose critical classified information to our enemies that they could use against us. 2nd, the last thing we want is slick lawyers and idiot judges involved in our National security.
Click to expand...
OK, honestly, is there anything productive in the way you like to just bash an existing idea without producing a viable alternative solution? Nothing good about our legal system? What the fuck are you smoking Rick? There is infact a LOT good about our legal system. Innocent until proven guilty happens to be one of my favorites. How about the 5th amendment? That's a pretty good one too...

How can you dismiss the entire legal system based on loopholes within the system? (and again, not offer a solution)

Our legal system is woefully inadequate when it comes to matters of ethics and questions of morality. And where do you get that it should be a global standard? That is a self contradictory statement because you would be infringing on the sovereignty of other Nations.
Click to expand...
Law is progress. I don't believe our species is at the point yet which we can govern ourselves without law and order. Some of us are simply too ignorant at this point, due to many different aspects, to conduct a working society that prospers without laws. With law, freedom is established and protected. Certain laws restrict certain freedoms, and I'm fully aware of this, but with the absense of law, freedom cannot be established, so I see it as a necessary means to a justifiable ends.

Anyway, I did not suggest violating anyone's rights but I do think we are facing a threat that might lead to some very serious debate over what should be done. This is a very complex issue and well beyond what we as laymen can discuss here. And I have no problem admitting that I don't know what the right answers are at this point. All I know for a fact is that we ought to be learning all we can about the situation and not burying any information.
Click to expand...
I agree.
 
P

PadawanBater

Guest
Haul me to Heaven said:
Did you learn anyhting??
Click to expand...
Hopefully you have. That it's OK to be wrong. It's OK, and even encouraged to acknowledge when you are wrong about something. Admit it and move on. Says something about people.

Don't automatically take the defensive position because of what the messengers avatar looks like, acknowledge the message and we'll all be better off.

:peace:
 
H

Haul me to Heaven

New Member
Thank you! I respect your last post more than you can imagine.

But what did you learn? (If anything) Just wondering if this battle between you all is constructive? I hope it is.

We all need to stop fighting in a 'divided' way. To disagree is one thing but- where do we agree? What do we agree on?

We need to start working together to clean up the mess that has been made over the last twenty years.

If we don't unite in one way we will be divided in every way.
 
jeff f

jeff f

New Member
Haul me to Heaven said:
We all need to stop fighting in a 'divided' way. To disagree is one thing but- where do we agree? What do we agree on?

We need to start working together to clean up the mess that has been made over the last twenty years.

If we don't unite in one way we will be divided in every way.
Click to expand...
oh gag me. what a load of hogwash that is. more lib garbage talk.

charlie manson and i agree we like blondes. i date them, and he kills them.

now what?.......
 
Operation 420

Operation 420

Well-Known Member
I wish you guys could see that this was a mini 9/11. Don't you find it odd that this happened right before Obama decided to send additional troops? Doesn't it fit all too well together? Look at how many people got shot and the locations. Do some research and check out eyewitness accounts. It's all bullshit and people buy it. :wall:
 
H

Haul me to Heaven

New Member
jeff f said:
oh gag me. what a load of hogwash that is. more lib garbage talk.

charlie manson and i agree we like blondes. i date them, and he kills them.

now what?.......
Click to expand...
Just looking for the responce. (Doing my best Rodney King LOL!!)

BTW - Manson never killed anyone. Which one was he convicted of personally killing?
 
I

Illegal Smile

Guest
Work together my ass. We're right and they're wrong and they must be vanquished!
 
H

Haul me to Heaven

New Member
Who has come to slay the dragon?
Who has come to watch him fall?
Making arrows out of pointed words.
Giant killers at the call.

Niel Pert- Rush

Fools hate knowledge

Only those willing to know (the truth) will know. But many will despise all reproff and correction/direction.

So, question, is there is no working with jihadist?

Can the same be said of a certain kind of liberal?
How about a radical rightwing extemists?

I'm just looking at the simularities of 'radicalisum'.

One has a desire that springs from hate toward all that believe differently and the other protects all who are innocent from those that desire- hate.
What is 'evil'?
 
RickWhite

RickWhite

Well-Known Member
The most obvious thing about this thread ought to be how far off topic it has been lead. And I do mean lead as opposed to drifted or strayed.

My original point was that radical Islam was a factor in the Fort Hood shooting and that the left wing media intentionally omitted this fact. But of course, the left leaning people here lead the conversation away from the main point. This is typical because the left tends to shift the focus of all issues from logical analysis to emotional reaction. I say "we need to start discussing the facts of Fort Hood" and they hear "I want all Muslims persecuted." This is just a subconscious emotional reaction based on how they process information. In their minds it is not the words that were uttered, but the emotion these words elicited that define the issue. But I digress.

I think much of the issue is that many people believe that terrorism is the act of a handful of thugs. They have trouble processing the fact that conservative estimates from both sides of the isle estimate the radicals to be around 10% of all Muslims. That comes to 130,000,000 people. If you ask what percentage wants to see Sharia law rule the world and replace the US constitution through peaceful means it becomes a majority. If you want to verify this info go on line and find it your self.

Today, the threat from Radical Islam is serious. These guys are not a small group of impotent thugs. They are rulers of Nations who seek nuclear weapons and wish to conquer the World. And there may come a day when the supposedly peaceful Muslims here in the US turn against us. To ignore this is to be willfully ignorant.

Every Muslim Country on Earth is at war with their neighbors. For them taking over the World is their ultimate goal and they are prepared to use any method be it terror, infiltration, deceit and suicide, and they are prepared to fight for thousands of years if necessary. We need to educate ourselves to the true scope and magnitude of this threat or we be our downfall.
 
P

PadawanBater

Guest
The most obvious thing about this thread ought to be how far off topic it has been lead. And I do mean lead as opposed to drifted or strayed.

My original point was that radical Islam was a factor in the Fort Hood shooting and that the left wing media intentionally omitted this fact. But of course, the left leaning people here lead the conversation away from the main point. This is typical because the left tends to shift the focus of all issues from logical analysis to emotional reaction. I say "we need to start discussing the facts of Fort Hood" and they hear "I want all Muslims persecuted." This is just a subconscious emotional reaction based on how they process information. In their minds it is not the words that were uttered, but the emotion these words elicited that define the issue. But I digress.
Click to expand...
Radical Islam was a factor in the Fort Hood shooting, I agree, the left wing media omitted this fact, I agree. But what you, and other conservatives, and other right wing media pundits seem to be so completely blind to, is the fact that Christianity is just as bad, and that is the point I was making. Islam is litterally 1/2 the problem, Christianity is the other 1/2. There are 4.4 BILLION believers in one of these two religions, all of them are the problem, not just the Islamic ones. Murdering people is not the only way cause harm. You refuse to acknowledge that fact, and only see ISLAM as the problem, while Christianity gets a free pass. (even though you personally claim to be a non practicing Jew) Just because you cannot see the harm organized Christianity causes doesn't mean it's not there. From a non believers perspective, aka non biased, all organized religion is dangerous. Do you understand my point of view?

I think much of the issue is that many people believe that terrorism is the act of a handful of thugs. They have trouble processing the fact that conservative estimates from both sides of the isle estimate the radicals to be around 10% of all Muslims. That comes to 130,000,000 people. If you ask what percentage wants to see Sharia law rule the world and replace the US constitution through peaceful means it becomes a majority. If you want to verify this info go on line and find it your self.
Click to expand...
Well if that's the case, it's a contradictory question, because Sharia Law is anything but peaceful. But you made the claim, your job to source it.

Today, the threat from Radical Islam is serious. These guys are not a small group of impotent thugs. They are rulers of Nations who seek nuclear weapons and wish to conquer the World. And there may come a day when the supposedly peaceful Muslims here in the US turn against us. To ignore this is to be willfully ignorant.
Click to expand...
Today, the threat from Radical Christianity is serious. These guys are not a small group of impotent thugs. They are rulers of Nations who have nuclear weapons and wish to conquer the World. And there may come a day when the supposedly peaceful Christians here in the US turn against us. To ignore this is to be willfully ignorant.

Every Muslim Country on Earth is at war with their neighbors. For them taking over the World is their ultimate goal and they are prepared to use any method be it terror, infiltration, deceit and suicide, and they are prepared to fight for thousands of years if necessary. We need to educate ourselves to the true scope and magnitude of this threat or we be our downfall.
Click to expand...
What do you say about the spread of democracy? To any outside observer, wouldn't they maybe consider that "taking over the world", especially when reflecting on the US governments methods of doing so?
 
H

Haul me to Heaven

New Member
That is the stupidest thing I've ever heard anyone ever say. You are truly blind and hateful. All religions are bad? Pray for them that persecute you? (Jesus) Budda? All these are as bad as radicla Wahabists?? Jihad? Kill all those that don't believe in 'ahal' the way you do!!?? You are truly a case study in stupidity! A blithering fool and an educated idiot. Nothing more and probably much less.

People like you are an infection in the body politic.

Justine

I'm a woman and truly have a bigger set than you.

What a weak tool. Trly a 'girly-man.
Putz
 
H

Haul me to Heaven

New Member
Killing your 'enemy' is 'islamic'. Not killing your defensless enemy is... What? The right thing to do??
And where do islamic wack jobs stand on that???
 
I

Illegal Smile

Guest
RickWhite said:
The most obvious thing about this thread ought to be how far off topic it has been lead. And I do mean lead as opposed to drifted or strayed.

My original point was that radical Islam was a factor in the Fort Hood shooting and that the left wing media intentionally omitted this fact. But of course, the left leaning people here lead the conversation away from the main point. This is typical because the left tends to shift the focus of all issues from logical analysis to emotional reaction. I say "we need to start discussing the facts of Fort Hood" and they hear "I want all Muslims persecuted." This is just a subconscious emotional reaction based on how they process information. In their minds it is not the words that were uttered, but the emotion these words elicited that define the issue. But I digress.

I think much of the issue is that many people believe that terrorism is the act of a handful of thugs. They have trouble processing the fact that conservative estimates from both sides of the isle estimate the radicals to be around 10% of all Muslims. That comes to 130,000,000 people. If you ask what percentage wants to see Sharia law rule the world and replace the US constitution through peaceful means it becomes a majority. If you want to verify this info go on line and find it your self.

Today, the threat from Radical Islam is serious. These guys are not a small group of impotent thugs. They are rulers of Nations who seek nuclear weapons and wish to conquer the World. And there may come a day when the supposedly peaceful Muslims here in the US turn against us. To ignore this is to be willfully ignorant.

Every Muslim Country on Earth is at war with their neighbors. For them taking over the World is their ultimate goal and they are prepared to use any method be it terror, infiltration, deceit and suicide, and they are prepared to fight for thousands of years if necessary. We need to educate ourselves to the true scope and magnitude of this threat or we be our downfall.
Click to expand...
I've used the word thugs but not to diminish the scope or seriousness of the global jihad. I'm talking about the thugs who are not islamists but run the failed states where the jihadists can be accomodated.

Decades ago a term was coined, "the bloody borders of Islam." Then and now, the most violent places in the world, and those with no functioning state or human rights, are where the Islamic world collides with the non-Islamic. And at the root of all these collisions is the radical Islam that has holy war as its reason for being. This cannot be said about any other religion.

Global peace and prosperity cannot even be imagined let alone achieved in a world where this dynamic continues to play out. Parts of the world need to be dragged into the 21st century, kicking and screaming if necessary. The connected, functional world needs to find a way to do that or we will be dragged back to the 11th century. The Islamic world keeps putting itself at the top of the list for which area demands priority.
 
R

redivider

Well-Known Member
the world need to be dragged into the 21st century??

so you are saying that we need to help those people develop the infrastructure necessary to live in the modern world.

how does flying in and exterminating groups of people accomplish this?

it is impossible to "westernize" the islamic world. this was attempted by the crusades and look how much success that had. all that happened was that europe lost a bunch of nobles (present day soldiers), and trade routes were established. you're way of thinking brings humanity back a couple of hundred years as it is.

radical islam will never go away, all the west can do is stay away, and hope they take their aggression out on themselves, instead of over here.....
 
Bucket head

Bucket head

Well-Known Member
redivider said:
the world need to be dragged into the 21st century??

so you are saying that we need to help those people develop the infrastructure necessary to live in the modern world.

how does flying in and exterminating groups of people accomplish this?

it is impossible to "westernize" the islamic world. this was attempted by the crusades and look how much success that had. all that happened was that europe lost a bunch of nobles (present day soldiers), and trade routes were established. you're way of thinking brings humanity back a couple of hundred years as it is.

radical islam will never go away, all the west can do is stay away, and hope they take their aggression out on themselves, instead of over here.....
Click to expand...


I second that...bongsmilie
 
Leothwyn

Leothwyn

Well-Known Member
RickWhite said:
The most obvious thing about this thread ought to be how far off topic it has been lead. And I do mean lead as opposed to drifted or strayed.

But of course, the left leaning people here lead the conversation away from the main point. This is typical because the left tends to shift the focus of all issues from logical analysis to emotional reaction.
Click to expand...
Stop the presses!!! A political thread went off topic! Good eye Rick, I think you may have uncovered a massive liberal conspiracy.

Oh wait... I guess just about all of the threads in the politics section get off topic.
Maybe if you took a break from sweeping generalizations about people who don't think like you, threads would stay on topic more.

Actually, aside from your generalizations about liberals, I agree with a lot of what you've said. The extreme parts of islam are really scary, and a serious threat. I really can't think of anything good about islam... it's frightening that it's growing in popularity.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top